Therefore, in this case, I am doing the following steps –
1. Put IP deposit amount from the offset into home loan which is Principle Place of Residence(PPOR).
2. Then re-draw/recall the deposit amount and spilt the home loan into 2 parts 1. Line of credit and 2. remaining home loan.
3. Use the line of credit for IP deposit at the time of settlement, thus create a tax deductible investment debt for 2 nd IP.
Order is bit different. Is this sensible method to achieve the desired results ?
I hope so. ??? Or rather I would like to think so.
Any corrective inputs appreciated.
Thanks.
Cheers,
WC
Very messy, the funds are being mixed around and then separated again….your accountant/ATO is not going to like this. It’s like mixing 2L of clean clear water with 2L of muddy water and then later down the track separating it…still going to be muddy.
If you look at Richard’s way…at no times are the funds/deposit mixed.
Angus are you saying that these loans with an offset/redraw account would satisfy the taxman as a ‘proper’ offset account?
Similarly, Richard, are you saying that they would not?
Do either of you have evidence to back this up, or is it just interpretation? Why doesn’t FirstMac/Kim Cannon apply for a ruling on this and dispel all doubt with these products, since they seem to be pushing them to Investors?
cheers
Don’t need to go that far regarding ruling … doubt the company would spend that time and money for that purpose anyway.
To know if it’s a true Offset account or not…just need to find out if it as 2 dual account + if the “loan” increase when funds are pulled out from it…if the loan amount changes then it’s not a true offset- as the interest paid are mixed up.
A true offset account will HAVE 2 account seperated…they should no affect each anther another then lowering the interest
What we in the accounting world call a “dual account”
6. The customer operates two accounts – a loan account and a deposit account. To be acceptable, it is essential that there be no entitlement, either in law or in equity, to receive interest payments or payments in the nature of interest on the amounts credited to the deposit account. The only benefit arising in the deposit account should be the right of the customer to ensure that the interest payable on the loan account is reduced in the way described in paragraph 7.
7. The reduction in the loan account interest referred to in paragraph 6 should be achieved by offsetting the balances of the two accounts. That is, the interest payable on the loan account should be calculated by dividing the outstanding loan principal into two components. A reduced rate of interest (often the lending rate less the ordinary deposit account rate) is charged on an amount equal to the balance of the deposit account. The reduced interest rate can never be a negative, ie. the deposit rate used cannot exceed the loan rate used. In those cases where the deposit rate would exceed the loan rate the deposit rate actually used in the calculation must be limited to the loan rate (see Example 3, paragraphs 31 and 32). The usual lending rate of interest on loans of this type is charged on the remainder of the loan principal.
8. If an account is made up of a series of sub-accounts, some of which are used for deposits and some for loans, then the sub-accounts will be treated, for the purposes of this Ruling, as separate accounts. Consequently, a loan offset account arrangement involving such accounts will fall for consideration under the principles applying to dual accounts (paragraphs 6 and 7).
Thanks shape. I’ll be using 120,000 from a loc to fund the 20 per cent deposit and the closing costs plus the granny flat. So once the granny flat is constructed I’ll have 120,000 of my own cash in the deal. I’ll have a stand alone loan for 172,000 on the house. That’s why I’ll need a revaluation. So say it comes back at 290,000 with the granny I can go to 95 per cent lvr and get most of my money out. So I’m basically wondering how much value the granny will add in relation to it’s cost?
Will need to ask a valuer that question.
Bank valuers are a werid mob-in some places/location granny made no difference 0.o – i think it was in TAS ( 7120?? something like that) the valuer declared granny was not in demand in the area + made no diff in market price.
And then you get the common areas like Liverpool, Blacktown and Granville NSW….Epping in VIC etc where the valuer would push the value up slightly
But the point is, you can request for the valuer and bank to add in “potential” value of a granny to the property.
If you want to know how much, you could go on RP data, price finder or Domai.com.au ( past sales) and do some price search on simliar houses with granny
Office of fair trading can see take him to court on your behalf- consumers right.
As long as he has a Active ABN + rego ( closing down, still can mean he has a active license) …fair trading can “legally” work their magic…
TO be honest 3 month is not enough time for a house to gain enough in equity…Regarding the granny flat valuation, no the bank/valuer will not just ADD the construction cost on top; remember your applying for a equity release not a construction loan ( loan amount is to small for construction loan) …However some banks ( Normally the credit union and smaller banks) if your LVR is under 85% will allow the valuer to take “in consideration” that you will have a granny flat and compare it’s “selling” price to the market ie Another house in the same suburb with granny.
Does the guy have a ABN?? and is he registered etc..
If so you can complain to the office of fair trading…if not- then that’s the risk you take with private/Gumtree cheap sales
Nobody has the “authority” to do anything.. unless you sue…but given the amount it’s not worth it.
The offset and redraw problem has been talked about quite a bit in another post…but i will summaries and provide an example for clarification.
propertyboy wrote:
the lending manager said to me offset and redraw accounts are the same thing
a redraw account offsets the loan account.
I am bit confused, how do I know if my loan is a offset or redraw where is it documented?
PB, all i can say is, your lending manger either doesn’t know the difference OR doesn’t want to offer you the offset account/product as it is a dis- advantage to the bank ( Ie the lending manger WORKS for the bank and the Bank’s profit!)
—Are you sure there is a difference?—
* If there was no difference why would 2 product be offered
* There’s normally a annual of monthly fee attached to the package which is the one that offers a offset account ( not all banks, but most)
* redraw is offered on ALL product type ( excluding fix etc..) Offset is NOT offered on all product type + sometimes there is a min loan amount as well.
The reason why ppl think re-draw and offset has no differences is because it’s “function” in term of lowering the interest rate is essentially the same…and that’s all ppl really look and care about. So really they BOTH lower the interest rate at the same amount and in simliar ways BUT here are the differences…
—-Differences–
1. Control – With a redraw the bank has control over the funds, end of the day your “re-borrowing this fund” as your loan will increase. Compared to an offset the funds are YOURS! you decide when you want to spend it and on what.
2. Tax- With a redraw the home loans and the “re-draw” amount is all combined into one account “the mortgage” ….but with an offset you have your mortgage + a separate linked offset account; this allows you to separate the funds for difference purpose if required.
Explains how redraw can cause contamination etc…( more about this in the example below)
3. Safety buffer -say you lose your job and needs funds to continue with the mortgage OR to pay some bills off, if the bank can see you missed a few payment the chances they will release your re-draw is 50:50…however with an offset since it’s your funds you have the ability to use the funds towards mortgage and any purpose.
—Example—-
Mr and Mrs Propertyinvesting lives at home and has a IP worth $300,000, they plan on buying a PPOR to live in very soon + get married and buy some shares.
1. Redraw—- You have a $200,000 Investment property Mortgage with $50,000 cash you decide to chuck this cash into the mortgage…so the mortgage is now $150,000 ( + 50,000 redraw) – you pay % on the $150,000 and the % is all fully tax deducible …2 years later…
You find your PPOR and decide to redraw the $30,000 out for deposit towards the PPOR —- your initial mortgage is NOW $180,000 BUT only 83% is tax deducible ( 150/180) SO now when it comes to tax time you need to work out the % for every split and every % repayment. Might sound simple…but lets add the MARRIAGE cost into this + cost to buy shares??? ( some tax deducible so not) — WILL GET MESSY
2. Offset– SAME EXAMPLE. $200,000 Mortgage with $50,000 Cash in the offset account…you still only pay % on the $150,000…but the “mortgage” amount does not change it remains at $200k. When you use the funds from the offset account it does NOT affect the mortgage “amount” and the tax deducibilty remains intact.
—Note—-
How you tell if your account is an offset or redraw, it will say when you go online and go to “more information/ accounts details” the page where it tells you your % and “years” left…if it doesn’t say Offset then you most likely don’t have one…for a re-draw it won’t say anything because Most account have an redraw.
NAB- it’s on the statement on the right hand side ( it should say 100% offset Choice package)
CBA- they call it a MISA account (also the misa is slightly difference to the traditional offset accounts…)
Westpac- Rocket
Most offset are part of a package only, in which you have a ongoing fee. But note EVEN if you are on a package this does not mean you have an offset account, as you need to request for this offset account.
My home has been valued at 420k by the bank. I have done pretty well for my self at the age of 27 too. I am selling my business at the moment and once that has been done i will be looking at investing again.
but with such large amount of equity "yes maybe i can buy a few properties" But at the same time will i get the return on a postive cash flow basis or will i have to outlay money too?
cheers on your thoughts
Hi,
I remember your own post ( regarding the Business and CBA); so i would say avoid paying down your PPOR ” directly” But instead add the extra surplus fund into your MISA account ( Cba’s offset account).
That way:
1. Interest is still less for your PPOR
2. Emergency funds that YOU can control – owing a small business is NOT easy and anything could happen…get sued?etc — CASH IS KING
3. Buffer
Regarding passive income- what you have mentioned are the common ways of achieving passive income…wont be easy i have to say…
But as DC mentioned, having 50k passive is all good, but it depends on the holding cost as well.
Like any investment it comes with it’s initial outlay and risk. Being so young you have one important weapon in the investing world and that is “time”….you have time to ride out any negative changes in any market.
So i would say GIVE your investment some time and use “time” to your advantage…your not going to jump from 10k passive to 50k passive with no outlay + low risk within 12 month- applies to shares and property.
When i was still in H/S, i paper traded property and shares on a weekly basis- keeping track of all my ” virtual” investments did this for a good 3 years- i had time and NO money at that time lol
Once i got my first full time job and save up my first deposit – Boom! bought my first place within 9 month of starting my job over a period of 7 years bought a few more IP and shares. Was a long journey but till this date in time i still haven’t sold ANY of my investments as im giving it time to grow further + if i sold all my investment as of today and paid out all my debt i would have excess of $1.3M in cash ( after all CGT paid etc..) and im also only 27 + still living at home like a true Asian
Moral of my life story.
Give your investment some time + i personally believe capital growth is more important then cash flow in term of wealth creation.
Yep buyers agent, as the name suggest “should” work for the buyer…
I mean like any industry of work you do get some “bad eggs” and any buyers agent that “sells” property i would personally avoid as a buyer…so not sure what sort of reputation these guys are getting that your trying to off load your property to.
Also be aware buyer’s agent client tend to be “number” driven and all about the price…so good luck.
There are now so many apartments in Sydney that are “buying off plan” at rather expensive price. They require 10% deposit and approximately 2 years in waiting. So why put 10% idle for 2 years when I can use it on an existing property and start generating income?
I thought “okay, the property market may be up in 2 years, so I would have a windfall”, but I can argue an existing property would appreciate in 2 years plus the 2 years worth of income.
Much appreciated if someone would help me understand the missing piece of puzzle as these off-the-plan properties are selling fast. Mirvac in Chatswood sold out in 2 hours after opening the doors.
Thanks.
Mirvac in Chatswood – 2 whole floor was sold to one Chinese investor ….
Overseas buyers loves Off the plan, as it’s probably one of the few type of properties they are allowed to buy in Australia under the FIRB, and this is one of the reason for the quick sales and price…
I personally wouldn’t buy off the plan; plenty of reasons… you + Previous poster has mentioned 3 of them already.
In WA, VIC and to some extent QLD i have seen seen a lot of full valuation ( valuation that are based on last 3 month sales figures) falling short and some even lower then purchase price from 1-2 years ago.
preference towards buying your own home first and then getting into property investing afterwards. That way, you can take advantage of any Govt. FHB incentives such as the FHOG and concessionary stamp duty (if available). Jamie
That’s the way i would look at it as well, given you have such a low deposit …the gov grant would help you boost your deposit + use less of your own cash ( discount stamp duty etc…) ; if you decide to buy IP first you won’t have enough deposit to buy a 2nd place either way.
One common mistake new investors make is to buy ANYTHING they can afford ( ie CHEAP!) as long as the rent is good…this can be a good strategy, but i would personally avoid this as your first property…why?
These sort of first time buyers who buy ” cheap properties” , buy irrationally and just look at the numbers. Their thinking is ” wow it’s cheap, i don’t want to live there, because it’s too far from work and everything else or the neighbourhood isn’t as good…but the rent is good” ….. next thing you know the place is empty for 2 month and nobody wants to live there…
So if the first place you buy is your PPOR and your ok to live there, the chances that someone else is ok to “rent” that same place is very likely and it may turn out to be a good buy after all.
P.s Not saying buying cheap property in rural location with high rent is bad…just be careful, especially if your inexperienced.
The reason for the problem is because the site is “self” manged, meaning the agent that posts the details up ticks the box about the property ie ” how many bedroom, property type, price range” some agent purposely place the property in the wrong “place” and i guess most does it by accident…..
When my agent listed my property for rent it didn’t show up because my “house” was listed as a “unit” + he inputted the wrong price range for the search field even though the add had it listed correctly.
I agree with Jamie, LMI can be beneficial…especially if it means you can get into the market quicker….for you to save up 20% + stamp duty ( don’t forgot stamp duty and another soft cost….this can add up to $20k+) will take a while and by that time the prices of property may have gone up further or stay the same- who knows…
Generally speaking NO LMI at 80% LVR, but there are selected lenders that will do NO lMI at 85% and discounted up to 95.