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    asdf : Like I explained already : Rents are heading down, not up. Houses can't sell….. sellers think.. oh my god I can't sell.. might as well rent it out while I try and sell… more rentals up at discounted prices… oh.. wait… rent is heading south. Quite easily predictable. You can ignore it, but that won't make it disappear.

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    Interest rates won't fall…
    It's a hoax, just like all the spruiker stuff the real estate agents post.

    Even *IF* RBA lowers interest, the banks will keep rising them anyway, so the situation will only get worse if the RBA drops interest rates. Have a look in USA. 2% interest rates.. lol.. and we all know how much THAT helped them ?  ( hint : They are a third world country now… )

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    http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,25479,24105428-5013951,00.html

    on news.com.au :

    THE weakest market in four years has seen house prices drop in most capitals with predictions next year could see 10 per cent falls.

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    Mister wrote:
    Hang on , missed that 30,000 per mth reset thing – is this fact , do we have the report . That in no uncertain terms would be a very serious situation .
    There are lots of money people here how is it no one has brought this up ?
    Wouldn't the banks realize they'd only be cutting their own throats and space it out more sensibly  ?

    So is this the straw your talking about with the stock market too or is there more ?

    Cheers – I think !

    well there isn't just 1 straw. That's the whole problem. If there was 1 straw the problem would have been fixed by the government or RBA already. First, it's global. Second, unemployment and recession is a result of the housing crash, not the other way around. This has been proven in UK / USA / France / Spain etc.
    Many companies are depending on the strong housing market. Banks, mortgage brokers, real estate agents, building companies are the obvious ones. But there are a lot more. Think of your baker, your grocer, that small IT company accross the road, all the small shop / company owners basically. Many of them used equity to finance their shops or businesses. If their equity disappears or goes negative, I could see a few tumble.

    A fellow forumite on this forum ( I believe he's an accountant ) reported that a cash flow positive company has gone bankrupt because of their profits going directly into their house repayments. I see this happening more and more as the interest rates reset.

    Then there's the limited credit availability, new laws upcoming for more liquid money in banks which will drive up available credit prices more. This will be reflected in the interest rates, which is why I am quite sure the interest rates will keep going up to at least 12%. The RBA has been factored out. If banks offer 8.7% savings accounts, and they need 2.5% on top of that, then I see 11,2% interest rates already. The bank employees you see, don't work for free. So, we'll see some sacking in banks soon, coupled with higher interest rates.

    There's the high oil price, the high food price. If RBA lowers the rates, the AUD dollar will plunge and export will be hurt, on top of that even more credit will disappear from Australia as investors flee to 'safe' Europe.

    People are overleveraged to the max. They have 40-year mortgages ( that's about your WHOLE working life expectancy ) so it can't get any more. ( there's some silly 100-year mortgages in Japan, but that's just silly.
    Most family income where there are 2 incomes own million-dollar houses and thus are also leveraged to the max. They are paying back almost everything they earn into their house. Now you see the problem. When the small companies go down because of negative equity and higher interest, these people have to foreclose their homes, next come the bigger companies, who will make losses because the economy is starting to go down.

    Basically, just have a look at what happens in the UK and USA. I have no idea why Australia thinks they will be spared. Every problem the USA has , Australia has either double, or triple the problem size. The crash in Australia ( both housing / economical ) is going to be much worse than the USA for the simple reason that Australian houseprices are 6 to 10 times average wages, and in other countries are 3 to 4 times average wages.

    There's a reason that houseprices are historically 3-4 times average wages. The reason is :
    If you spend 40 years of your life repaying for your house, that means that 40 years long, you have been stealing your own future money from yourself, and thus can spend less. This has direct effect on the economy ( although noone has yet studied this ) it's quite easy to predict what will happen : Society have already spent the money of the next 40 upcoming years. The solution that USA came up with was easy : Just print more money all the time.

    The problem, ofcourse, then gets worse. More money = more debt = needs more money = more debt = needs more money = … etc

    We've come to the breaking point. More money is not an option anymore. ( where will the joke end… like Zimbabwe ? With 10.000.000.000.000.000 bills ? ). So you see, no more money = less debt = less credit available = no more buyers because debt has gone = more houses on the market = more stressed sellers = lower houseprices.

    It's unavoidable.

    You can imagine a locomotive with a spring attached to the wagons. In order for the wagons not to crash into the locomotive, the locomotive has to go ever faster. If it slows down, the whole train will crash.
    That locomotive is now running at it's maximum speed. And the wagons are incoming with massive speed from behind. The only option is to go faster faster ( more money more money ). But we're at maximum speed. It just won't go faster.

    Brace for the crash.

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    Mister wrote:
    What about the BHP boss . Only 45 and running that place , pretty amazing really .

    Is that guy sharp or what , one of these rare people where it wouldn't matter if he was standing on his head , the intelligence , the strategy all over that guy  is just staring you in the face  !
    If I could have one thing changed I'd order a super brain !

    Having a super brain has it's downsides too. It's definately better to be average and mingle with the crowds.

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    puffl wrote:
    Scamp wrote:
    – Bank interest rates *will* go up. Whatever the RBA does ( they should really up the rates also, but it doesn't matter, even if they don't the banks will ). This makes money even more expensive.

    – Recession is coming, Australia won't escape it. This is not the time to get yourself in debt.

    Scamp, if a recession is coming, why do you think the RBA should lift interest rates? That makes no sense whatsoever.

    Banks will keep raising interestrates because credit is expensive. What RBA does is futile.

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    Scott No Mates wrote:
    Total Assets = $450k + $500k
    Total Equity = $200k
    Debt = $750k

    Assets = 550+500
    Debt = 850K, not 750K

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    johk wrote:
    Am I right in assuming that I can take my equity of 200k and put in as deposit for the new house? That will give me a second mortgage of 300k.

    Although you are WRITING the truth, you are THINKING wrong here.

    What you are THINKING is :
    You 'take' 200K equity ( for free.. lala fairyland money ? ) hence you end up with :
    350K mortgage
    300K new mortgage
    that's 650K mortgage, and that's not correct.

    You write :
    350K mortgage. You 'take' 200K equity = new 550K mortgage on existing house
    500K new houseprice, minus 200K equity = 300K mortgage on new home
    That's 850K mortgage total and that's correct.

    It's real simple maths. Equity isn't 'free fairy money', it's extra mortgage , it's debt, it's a loan and you need to pay 10% interest on it.

    Can you afford to pay back 85.000 per year ?
    Are you ready to lose 85.000 per year equity on top of that ?

    You are starting a plan that will lose you about 170.000AUD$ per year.
    If you can afford it and be happy losing that much money EACH YEAR , then you should do it.

    If you don't want to lose money , then stay out of property until 2010, then come back here and ask for new advice.

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    Squirrel wrote:
    Hey Scamp… why do you specifically say September?

    reports from the banks say that that is the month that the first of a lot of mortgages will reset from fixed rates to variable rates. That's 6% to 10%. That's about double repayments , every month from September 2008 on.
    The reset will take until about July 2009, with about 30.000 mortgages resetting every month. September is the first of those months.

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    Yarpos : A while back ( I believe in this thread, could be another one also ) I warned people about ANZ. If any bank is overexposed to all the crap of USA and bad debt, it's ANZ. Be very very wary about them, and don't keep more than 20.000$ AUD on their bank accounts. A bank run on ANZ is imminent, we all know it, it's just a matter of time.

    As for Australia : Australia is in for a bigger crash than USA has been in. This also is just a matter of time.
    Like I have said many times before, the real troubles won't begin before september 2008. That is in 1 month from now. I'm not saying doom is coming, I'm just saying VERY bad times are coming for people that have debts or are otherwise leveraged ( 80% of the australians ). If you have savings, invest in gold or other non-devaluating assets. Stay clear of stocks and above all, stay clear of property.

    September 2008 : That's when trouble starts for Australia.

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    oh look mommy, a new scam !

    Nothing to see here

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    Cost of land has literally doubled and even trebled

    ah.. so you want people to buy that land at triple the price ?
    Where the hell is Cochin ( or is it Kochi ? ) ?

    Please remove this spam.

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    Erik,

    You realize that the real-estate in Japan has been crashing for decades already ?
    Are you ready to invest your money into something that will keep going down every year , costs you a LOT of money per month ( negative gearing ) and on top of that have 10% inflation ?

    Everything looked similar in Japan 20 years ago to Australia now. And their housing market has been crashing lower, and lower… and lower every year, without exception. I think a house there is worth 10% of what it was worth in the height of their bubble.

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    Rudi : Just go to http://www.globalhousepricecrash.com to learn why and how.

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    rudo1ph wrote:
    Scamp wrote:
    and you're in love with a house, 

    Buying an investment property is not about falling in love with a house – that's what you do with your home.  It's about seeing an opportunity and making it work for you.

    Just my opinion

    Rudi

    Yes, that was what I was saying ( try and read between the lines )

    I didn't want to boldly say : if you're investing in property now you're an idiot.
    Rather, I say : If you love a house and don't mind paying twice the correct price for it, then you should.

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    an adult shop is a bad tenant. People who want to buy sex articles will buy them over the internet.
    Usually they are cover-ups.

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    Fresh from the press ( not very surprisingly )

    http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24082209-5012798,00.html

    In short :

    HOUSE prices fell in more than 60 Adelaide suburbs in the first six months of the year, new figures from the Valuer-General show.

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    Just wait a few months for the new foreclosures sites to pop up. Maybe, if you're lucky, you can even take the Foreclosure Touring Bus to see all these new upcoming foreclosures, and get tips on driving the prices even lower.
    You gotta love foreclosures Jon ? At this moment the last few suckers with money buy up at crazy prices, but soon those people too will run out of money. After that, it's southwards all the way. The foreclosures business is booming, time to invest :)

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    jules3810 wrote:
    i  trusted a group to build some town houses and  lost  six hundred thousand dollars,  then  lost employment , had a few  other   repairs not on list,   then  daughter  had major accident, had to attend to her needs, ,   with  rise of  loans, and  penality rates,  i was not   getting  the cashflow to meet outgoings,     fell into a heap.
    and now the bank is bashing at the door,   I have    finally   got into survivial  mode.    have  some good  partners that wll buy into my property,  50%    it gives good rents,   10 acres with  4 rentals,  total  $1150. per week   then there is agistments and stables.as well,   bringing it up to the potential of  $2400. per week. 
    the problem  is   i needed the value  to come in good for finance, and the market has taken a dive.    the valuer came when we are in the middle of doing some work and moving ,repairing.  taking down some trees etc.
    value came  in short, so i am  $140,000  short of my loan i am in payout.    I  have to find the shortfall.  
    I  have offered a  friend  a 2 year deal  at  10% return  secured loan, but she cant get her supa yet. 
    running out of ideas. 
    any ideas please. 

    ouch.

    Have you spoken to your bank about this ? Surely they would understand the underlying investments are sound ? If they don't.. hm.. they yes you're off with ARMs or LOCs or even credit cards, but those are all very very risky to get into. Btw, banks all handle different maximums, so try to get some money from another bank.
    By far you'll be best off with a bank. Be quick, because interest is on the rise. At CBA there are noises that rates will rise upcoming week.

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    You need to dig… for instance, this friday 25th July there is one at Surfers Paradise Marriott Resort & Spa for 40+ auctions in South Queensland. Most (all) of those will be foreclosures.

    Good luck !

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