Hi guys,

I wasn’t going to contribute again to this thread, but hey, can’t help myself. I think Phil’s point underscores another of mine, which is that life is not all about choice (ie divorce, maintenance payments etc)… sometimes things get thrust upon you that you can’t do anything about… how you deal with them from there of course, is a different story.
Cheers
r

Lillian’s okay, but there are better ones. I found that Lillian really tried to force properties onto me that I wasn’t interested in.

Paul Markwell from Ray Hoopers is the best by a mile. Logan Brown from Baxter’s is good too. Frank Brady deals with more 11 sec type properties than anyone (on the south side) while Ken Limpus from Allenstown Realty is also good for cheapies. Be very wary about what you’re buying up there at the moment though. I saw a place when I was up there in May/June that was a dump at 50k and allegedly 110 pw rent… the people took it off the market, haven’t done a thing to it, and I was interested to see it’s a “new” listing at 70k. It’s imperative to go there yourself and get a feel for the place, because some sections of town are very very different to others.

Cheers
r

it’s “grief”… you asked…

r []

Hi Craig,

I like the idea of a broader based consumption tax actually, and while I believe some people CHOOSE to spend unwisely, I don’t believe all “poor” people choose to be short of a buck. They are often the victim of circumstance. Not always, but often… every individual has their own story to tell.

Cheers
r

hi

real estate agents are very busy, and the best and quickest way to get in touch with them is via the phone. If you want to build a relationship, it’s the best way rather than relying on emails.

cheers
r

They are getting harder to find and require a lot of work to unearth. That’s half the fun. A lot people here won’t reveal where they are buying, and I don’t blame them, because they’ve spent a bloody long time researching etc. Make the search function on the site your best friend and use it. Good luck.

cheers
r

Hi kkowalsk,

(caution, long post following)

Thanks for the response…

The point I’m trying to make is that stereotypes of whatever section of society do not work. I don’t like lines being drawn in the sand that pretty much set an “us” and “them” theme to a debate (ie rich and poor)… The gap in the divide between rich and poor is getting bigger all the time in this country, but I’d like to think people still give a damn about each other, however it definitely seems we’re less tolerant than we used to be. The topic of this thread started out as tax, and I don’t think anyone here would mind paying taxes if they were better used. I’m sure people don’t mind paying for health, schools, roads, public transport etc. We all benefit from that. I, like everyone else, hate seeing public funds being misspent.

I’m not sure if this example will show what I mean about stereotypes, but I’ll give it a go. In my after school job years ago I used to work with a guy from a south east Asian country, I can’t remember which one in particular, but he had a lot of qualifications in his homeland to do engineering (or something along those lines) but when he came to Australia, his qualifications were worth jack. I think he may have been one of the Vietnamese boatpeople, so staying at home at the time was not an option. When I knew him, he had been working as a supermarket clerk for a number of years. He had a couple of kids and a wife. So here is this very smart guy working his butt off for a meagre sum. There’s no point for his wife to go to work because whatever she earns would basically go in childcare. He can’t go back to uni and get Australian qualifications because he’s got a family to support… he can’t speak English very well, so that rules out other options… so what is left? At the time he was doing the best he could and was happy. I know nothing of his whereabouts for the last 10 years, but I hope he’s doing well. He wasn’t dumb, he didn’t smoke, drink or gamble, but he was just getting by. Your parents obviously did well… but not everyone can, and it’s not always about choice.

By the way, the traditional 40 hour week went out the door long ago. There’s a lot of people who do unpaid overtime. More than ever, in fact.

When I have children I won’t be expecting them to forgo a social life or friends, because school is one of the best periods of growing up, and helps kids become socially adjusted with a less blinkered view of the world in a lot of cases… I want my kids to form relationships, have fun, and well… be kids. Of course I’ll encourage them to study, but I won’t be disappointed if they choose not to go to uni, as long as they find a field of endeavour where they are happy, and are good honest people that is enough for me. I know I had fun, and ended up doing well. Degrees aren’t the be all and end all even though they’re necessary in a lot of high paying jobs (but certainly not all of them). My fiance’s father almost disowned her when she quit university and pretty much labelled her a failure, but she’s now a paramedic, and I think he knows he was pretty silly to have such a narrow minded view on the issue. I’m sure there are many people who would love to have the chance to go to university for 9 years getting stacks of degrees, but the facts are that a lot of people can’t afford to do it, because Austudy isn’t enough, there aren’t enough casual jobs to go around, and a lot of people don’t have the parental financial support that would enable them to do so. I went to uni and earned a degree while doing 25 hours a week of casual work, but the fact I did so and then had to slog my guts out working in regional newspapers and tv for 9 years to get where I am now doesn’t mean I begrudge other people their lot in life be they allegedly “upper” or “lower” class. I know I’m not the first person to work hard, and I know I won’t be the last. kkowalsk, I just think it’s different strokes for different folks, and perhaps instead of complaining when bus drivers strike in their push for some paltry pay claim, just be thankful that you’ve clearly worked hard and are going somewhere in your life, because you’ve had the chance to do so for a whole lot of reasons.

To me, labelling all, or even most, “poor” people as this or that is just as bad as being a racist, and just as narrow minded.

I hope you do well in your chosen field.

cheers
r

Monkey Magic.

The impression I got from your post was that you thought people “choose” to be poor. That is where the ivory tower bit comes in, because it came across that you were sniping from whatever position in life it is that you hold. I can’t see how you’d take it personally, because I know bugger all about your background etc… It was the arrogant tone of your post that rubbed me up the wrong way.

Your follow-up comment to another post: “tax cut will generally only benifit those who are already have made the choice to become rich. Those who choose to be poor will spend it.” – is another elitist bit of nonsense. Do you honestly think people choose to be poor? Really? I know people on 150k a year who can’t save a penny… put that up against Fudge and Broz’s example of raising 5 kids on a paltry sum… who chooses what and who are you or I to judge them?

as for kkowalsk’s comments: “it won’t be long til the low income earners are crying poor again because they can’t manage their own finances.” Are you for real?

Can you guys tell me your background so I know where you’re coming from? I’m 29, from average working class family in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne, now in a good full time job… wish I’d learnt more about investing years ago (which means I back up the comments made about educating people re: investing… it’ll be a priority for my kids when they come along… I have a good perspective on life and where the subject of money fits, and believe me, I know what it is to struggle… and I also know that not all the battlers are there by choice… in fact, most I know aren’t…

r

(by the way, this is a completely different argument to the whole family law thing… I empathise totallly with what LuckyPhil is saying re Dads when families split up… it’s very very unfair)

Hi westan…

Nope, not looking to buy, mainly cos we’ve got our wedding on December 13th to pay for… after that, we’re going to do a little face lift to our place down the coast… sell it, pay out the mortgage on our PPOR which is worth around the 400-450k mark (bought the coast place for 170k three years ago, now worth 370-380k)… have about 50k left over after that and will probably invest that conservatively, get the LOC boosted and in position, then sit back, keep saving like a b@@tard, and wait for some gentle price falls… I’ll still have a quiet look around, but won’t be buying in a big hurry without lots of homework. Selling the coast place and losing the mortgage on the PPOR is about the same as one of us getting a 60k payrise if we maintained the status quo. We’ll be able to devote a minimum of about 55k per year to investing if we do this… ($1300 per week if we really want to have a crack)

We’re also going to start on the kids front in the next 18 months, so it’ll be lovely not having a mortgage to pay for…

Cheers
r