I just really dont see the point, especially when it's CF+ paying P&I
Its up to you but for goodness sake don't pay P. Pay the cash into an offset account (which will lower the I paid on the loan) and can be withdrawn later for more purchases.
howardcm wrote:
IMO there wont be a lot of capital growth over the next few years
Just your opinion. Might not be right?? Depending on where you are buying these properties – you may well be right!
howardcm wrote:
so I may as well be putting my money into the loan creating enough equity for another purchase of a CF + property. This way the IP's will be paying themselves off creating equity while I wait for CG to eventually come.
Well it is really not creating "equity". You are just using a loan account to put your "savings" into. It is a strategy though and you have to be congratulated for having one. Many don't. Not my cup of tea though – to each his own.
howardcm wrote:
If the only properties I am buying at the moment are CF+ paying P & I, doesnt it make more sense to have them actually paying themselves off creating a little equity to fund more IP's rather then putting the extra money in a low interest saver saving a cash deposit for more IP's?
Better than low IR at deposit at bank – Yes absolutely. Better than using an offset account – Absolutely not, No. Better than a different strategy altogether? dunno – depends on your risk factor and personal circumstances.
Doesnt that mean though that you will never own the house? …. and if you keep getting IO loans then youll be doing a full circle of never owning a home outright but always paying the difference between rent and your IO mortgage? Sorry, 21 years old and very inexpirienced
howardcm you are making some very basic and costly mistakes. Lets just look at one – which is paying off the loan on a home that will become a rental. Remember that rents keep increasing and mortgage repayments stay pretty much the same.
There's two ways to look at this IO or P&I thing: my way and the wrong way
Scenario: IO loan and assume RE doubles every 10 years (conservatively) Year 1: Buy IP for $400K with 80% loan of $320K on IO so equity = $80K Year 10: IP worth $800K, loan still $320K, equity now $480K Year 20: IP worth $1.6M, loan still $320K, equity $1.3M Year 30: IP worth $3.2M, loan still $320K, equity $2.9M
Please tell me how, even using your best efforts paying off loan principal you can come anywhere near the equity that GC of the IP is doing. They probably exist, but I've never met anybody who has saved $2.82 Million in 30 years.
I just don't get this "pay off your principal so you ceate equity thing". All you are talking about is some forced tax-advantaged savings plan.
IMO just use cash flow to service more IO debt on IPs to get the equity generator thing happening 2 fold or 3 fold or as many IPs as you can afford.
At the end of the day if CG is not happening in RE then saving your way to wealth through paying off loan principal is not going to cut it for you.
Is anyone aware of a good website/company you can go to and see what property and/or land sold for? ie: specific addresses.I imagine you would have to pay for this service? If so how much?
For those who don't spend $6K pa on an RPData subscription the best 2 (small $s) pay sites are:
A direct family member transfers their property into my name (no cash changes hands). I knock it down (it's an old house) and rebuild it into a new house. As this is their primary place of residence i assume they pay no capital gains tax, but I would pay stamp duty?
Yes you have to pay stamp duty as though the transaction happened at market value.
CrystalQ wrote:
Anything else I would have to pay?
Some minor incidentals like title registration etc & you'd want to do the legals correctly – you don't want a land tax bill or back rates charges. I assume that there is no mortgage presently owing?
CrystalQ wrote:
After building the new house I rent it back to them at say 50% below the market price for the next 20 years. I claim the stamp duty, mortgage interest payments etc as income tax deductions.
There is some doubt that you are entitled to a tax deduction for expenses if you do not charge market rates for the rental.
CrystalQ wrote:
Is this legal?
Yes
CrystalQ wrote:
I don't want to do anything dodgy, but I am trying to work out some way of helping provide a nice liveable home for the family while also making the most of the tax benefits to help me pay off the mortgage I've rung up.
So they are gifting you the old house & land. You knock down the house & build a new one with a mortgage. And then you want to repay the favour and give them reduced rental? It might be better to charge market rent and to "buy" the land off them in the first place. But do it as vendor finance and pay the vendor finance back from the rent they give you. Effectively achieves the same outcome only better for tax.
I did leave out alot of the key pieces of information as I was curious to see what suggestions would be made and therefore hopefully vindicate the direction and decisions that we are making. My day job is 'Project Manager' therefore I have spent alot of my time running projects (not property) that make other people wealthy. It is now time to apply that knowledge & experience to my own wealth growth. I will be reducing my day job and increasing my investment time over the next 6 months. Does the project sound better now.
Brett, you and the projects sound better now – yes. Probably would have been better to not leave out all the "key pieces" of information in the first instance but I realise where you're coming from.
Development is a risky business – ask Mr Raptis. But it can be done at a profit – ask Harry Trigubof. You need to have a min of 20-25% profit in it and more usually 30%+ before you even begin. The margin on that duplex looks very thin at $40K – but it is not clear from your post whether that is just your cut or the profit on the whole deal.
Anyhows all the best with it. Let us know how you get on.
Brett, JVs can & do work and some are abject failures. Most of the JVs that work utilize the skillsets of each of the JV partners. e.g. one partner has cash & no time, another has time & no cash but has project management ability etc. Out of both your options here I see one partner (REA) who has land. Of the other option I see a landowner who can donate land, a builder who can donate time and materials, BUT from what you've said so far I do not see what skillset your are bringing to the table. It can't be Project Management – because you have no idea of estimates to build. You have zero experience. It would be a very brave JV partner indeed who would get invloved with you (from what you've said). Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but that is the cold hard reality. The other cold hard reality is that, if you need it, option 2 will not get finance (most probably) at present but option 1 probably will.
Solar heating / cooling is fine – I've yet to be convinced that people would seek this out over being close to transport, shops, schools, coffee or a water view. It is something nice to have for sure but you'd need to bring more than this idea to a possible development JV.
I do. just asking for thoughts from other investors.
Apologies, I didn't mean to offend. I saw you had very few posts and I deal with a lot of newbies who ask similar Qs without wanting to put any of their own efforts into it. All the best with the decision.
Just wondering if anyone could help me with understanding an Equity issue I have at the moment, I recently purchased an IP for $350,000 and it was a Mortgagee sale. In the contract it has a valuation valid until the 26th May this year for $520,000.
I have seen a lot of contracts in my time but I've never seen one with a valuation in it. However, was this valuation done by the same valuer as hired by your lender? Most valuers will only value at their valuation or the contract price, whichever is the LOWER. Additionally, valuations can be different from the same valuer depending on the reason for the valuation.
shivasko wrote:
Would this mean that I would automatically have $140,000 (approx) in equity (assuming that another valuation of the property came back at $520,000?
Yes, but most lenders will not reval within 6 months of a purchase.
shivasko wrote:
I spoke to the bank and they said that becuase I borrowed the whole value of the property I don't have any equity. Can anyone please clarify?
Their valuer probably did the val at the contract price.
I'd advise against any investing strategy – property or shares – based on 'hot-tips'. My hot tip: Mandurah – sea side location (water always good for CG) Perth-Mandurah Rail Link. $1.7b, completed
I am looking at the bottom end of the market. The ugly duckling houses.
OK. You are competeing with FHBs at this lower priced end of the market. The thing in your favour is that most FHBs being Gen Y want evertyhing in their first home and no work to do.
cosmic wrote:
I notice that all the good deals get snapped up before they even go online.
Yes, as buyers Agents we regularly do this. Think of it this way: Why would a Real Estate Agency spend time, effort & money advertising a property, putting up signs and window displays and holding “Open For Inspections”, when they could make one or two simple phone calls to their “contacts” (Buyers Agents and investors) to gain a quick sale on a good property?
cosmic wrote:
It leads me to think that anything left advertised for a week or more is not a good deal for some reason.
That can indeed be the case. Or it may be that it is "ugly" and does not have wide market appeal. If you, with your knowledge of how to change it, can make it attractive, then this could represent good buying for you.
cosmic wrote:
what is the limit of how much work I should put into an ugly duckling to prepare for a good rental return?
For every $1 spent on your reno you need a min of $1.50 back in end valuation but more normally $2 – $3 back in end val. This should also translate into better rental return and quality of tenant you attract. Remember to include the price of your own time into the reno costs for the calcs.
cosmic wrote:
I am really worried about buying a lemon. I cannot afford a lemon. This is our first investment property.
So either hire a professional – like a BA – who do this all day everyday for a living OR get more practice yourself OR enlist the help of a trusted experienced friend BUT certainly when you do find something that you think fits the bill – get a pest & building report done.
cosmic wrote:
Am I not really getting a good investment house if I am not on a real estate call list?
Yes, probably and No, not necessarily. Look ,the FHB market price range is still hot. Most REAs are lazy – they do not bother calling people back at the moment anyway. We work with them all the time and 50% of them don't call us back – we have to chase them. The good ones call back and those that know they get repeat business from you will tend to call you back. But most will only keep you in mind if you keep putting yourself in front of them.
cosmic wrote:
We put in an offer $30k below on a house and the owner was disgusted.
Who cares? Owners have an emotional attachment to their home – yes they will get offended. If you care too much they will walk all over you. You need some emotional detachment.
cosmic wrote:
How often do you put in offers? Once a week?
For us in our business and even when buying for ourselves, we will do a search and get maybe 120 properties that are possibilities. Then we do more reseach on each one – on our desktop PC and this gets us maybe 2 to 3 dozen properties. Then we go inspect each one of these and make a short-list of sometimes only 1 property – at most 2 – 3 properties. Sometimes zero properties! So depending on our inspections we might only make one offer on one property. We might negotiate a bit backwards and forwards on this one property but we will never offer more than we have worked out what the market worth is. If this results in a purchase – fine. If not we move to property #2 and so on.
We are not really into putting multiple low ball offers out into the marketplace. We can't afford the reputation that gets us. It is a strategy that can work though. You might be able to make it work for you if you are comfortable with it.
I have just met with my broker to buy my first IP, and he suggested i do cross-colaterise mine because of cost saving/easier and easier for tax reasons, should i change this do u think…
I think you should change your broker – yes.
There are some very limited occassions where x-coll has helped people move ahead. Then down the track they usually try to undo the x-coll. Buying your first IP would not be a situation where x-coll would be useful for any reason.
Does anyone have a rough guide to the difference in price one could expect single vs multiple storey? E.g. If single storey is 400K then multuiple would be 300K, i.e. 25% less.
No, there is no such guide – you can't do it that way.
Email Mike Lloyd – Fusion Finance [[email protected]] who is a forum member and he'll e-mail you back a Residex CMA that should give you some idea of what the property is worth. He has posted about his free offer before – but I can't find it easily.
I am having the same problem , ….could produce income from the share market using covered call option selling but the bank told me they do not include share market income into their calculations.
Their lending criteria may have changed but it used to be that if you could show good steady income from share trading or option premium they would take it into account – but you had to have a 2 year history of it.
I google searched "balustrading" and the "in thing" seems to be frameless glass…
Rhys, 2 things spring to mind: 1. Is your townhouse part of a strata scheme with a body corporate that either (a) you need permission from to do this as it affects the external look of the building or (b) should be paying for this work, not you personally – or at least out of the sinking fund 2. Frameless glass is quite expensive – think swimming pool fencing – mega bucks
Excellent – the market did move up in the last few years for you.
sheranj wrote:
but I don't want to be a dummy and hold on to it
huh????? You have held it for only 4 years and it has generated some equity for you already but you think you'd be a dummy to hold it? What the?
sheranj wrote:
since I'm thinking it might be better to sell considering my circumstances…
What? you have some terminal disease? or are we just talking you have no job and no money? If the latter (as I suspect) then that is a very, very poor excuse to sell a growing asset. You'll spend the cash and in a short period you'll still have no job and no money + no investment property either. My suggestion is "get a haircut and get a job" and I say that in the nicest possible way.
sheranj wrote:
For tax purposes I'm to understand that if I sold it soon it's CGT exempt because it was my PPOR and I haven't bought any IPs.
Yep, probably right.
sheranj wrote:
What would you do?
I'd keep it – but I'm just a greedy landlord in it for the money
sheranj wrote:
If I sell it this year I might have a chance of maximising the selling price before the FHOG ends, and it's CGT exempt.
Yes, if you take the view that the market will drop from here and decide to sell there's no better time than when the free cash give-away is on.
sheranj wrote:
I wanted to renovate it a bit before selling (it's a rental, in good condition though) but I don't have a job yet and NO money!
Dreamin' – you don't have any money remember and it is tenanted. What are you thinking of doing? Turfing the tenant out while you do a reno and then not collecting rent?
sheranj wrote:
The crappy thing is I locked my rates in last year for AWHILE (ahem) JUST before they came tumbling down (cry, newbie MISTAKE).
That was NOT a newbie mistake – plenty of experienced investors did the same thing. Yes its a crappy situation to be in but no-one really saw the GFC thing coming or coming as fast as it did. (except for those experts who have correctly predicted 17 of the last 3 recessions that we've had). All indications were that interest rates were heading skyward and you acted to protect yourself – you are to be congratulated for that. Don't beat yourself up.
sheranj wrote:
But I'm thinking I could buy something else next year if the prices genuinely do come down…
2 things wrong with this thinking: 1. No lender is going to lend to an unemployed person or someone with a short work history in the current credit crunch environment 2. Hoping that prices will come down is not a weath creation strategy and it might prove to be a fallacy.
Propertunity, the Council will divulge such information readily? I would've imagined them to ask a bit more questions on why i would want it etc. etc..
Look, if you call council and ask how many bedrooms or bathrooms there are in a property then you will get the conversation closed down pretty quickly on the basis of privacy legislation. However, if you tell them you are interested because you are an intending purchaser of the property and you'd also like to know what the annual rates are – I've never had a problem. Its on the public record so to speak.
In many ways, I wish there were more Buyers' Agents. Most agents act for the sellers – and, while they should never mislead or deceive you, it is naïve to expect them to act in your best interests. Indeed, at law, they must act in the interests of the sellers.
If there were more good Buyers' Agents, then more buyers would be looked after.