Forum Replies Created
Hi Katie
Welcome to the forum. I'm sure you'll enjoy your time here.
My wife and I started our Vendor Finance residential real estate business in 2003. Some of the tools of this business are Options, Lease/Options, Joint Ventures, Instalment Contracts, etc. Happily for us, I was able to give up my job early in 2009 and we are now both enjoying working in our Vendor Finance business full time.
We'd suggest the main pitfall is believing that it's some form of get rich quick scheme. Happily it's becoming more regulated by the new National Credit Code and this is helping to improve its image.
A few web resources that may help in your search for information about Options and JV's in residential real estate are:
https://www.propertyinvesting.com/strategies/wraps
https://www.propertyinvesting.com/strategies/lease-options
http://www.jvpropertypartners.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=75
http://www.vendorfinancelawyer.com.au/
http://www.vendorfinance.asn.au/ The Vendor Finance Association of AustraliaCheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi JacM
Yes you can do it. The legal paperwork you need to accomplish is called a "Call Option".
As you haven't outlined your exit strategy for your plan, I won't comment on your plan as, to me, it's not a plan without an exit strategy. And you definitely need to have your exit strategy in place before you go into the transaction.
As you mention that you're in Victoria you need to make sure that you don't have a lease on the property while you have an Option on the same property. In Victoria, if you have a Lease and Option concurrently on a property, you have to pay Stamp Duty on the strike price of the Option, i.e. not the $5,000 option fee you mentioned but on the $600,000 strike price.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi flare_windmill
Welcome to the Forum. We all hope you enjoy your time here.
Yes, you pretty much got it spot on. However have a chat with one of the excellent brokers in this sub forum and you'll get a few other options to think about, e.g will you go for a line of credit or a facility with a 100% offset. I'm sure they also suggest setting up a "split" facility on your current loan (if possible). You've come to the right place
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi ojochoa
I've got to agree with Terry. We use Lewis for all our vendor finance transactions in Victoria. His contact details are:
Lewis O’Brien & Associates
Suite 113
89 High Street
Kew Victoria 3101phone: 03 9888 6388
fax: 03 9888 6366Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi rishi78
I think Tony, in NSW, charges about $450. Not sure about Lewis.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi rishi78
In Victoria we use Lewis O'brien at:
Lewis O’Brien & Associates
Suite 113
89 High Street
Kew Victoria 3101phone: 03 9888 6388
fax: 03 9888 6366
email: [email protected]Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi Dale
In Qld Stamp Duty is only payable on the Option Price. Of course, once you exercise the Option and settle the purchase, then Stamp Duty on the full purchase (strike) price is payable.
As always, please check with your solicitor.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi Flyingrally
As you mention, the capital growth is not going to be much if anything. You're therefore left with your positive cash flow.
Why not buy it and on sell it with vendor finance (VF)? On-selling with VF has the potential to:
1. get you a deposit of approximately $10,000
2. create positive cash flow of about $270 per month and
3. given you fixed capital gain, i.e. the difference between the price you buy it for and the price you on-sell it for.However I usually limit these transactions to towns with a population of at least 10,000.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi MrsC
I'm not sure what State you're in but Tony Cordato of Cordato Partners Lawyers has a Joint Venture Agreement that covers all the points Terry mentioned above. His phone number is 02 8297 5600.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi Ironlady
All you are doing here is Leasing the property. Would you normally ask the bank for permission to rent it? Probably not.
Then, just between you and the new tenant, you give them an Option to buy the place for a fixed price within a certain number of years. This gives them the option, but not the obligation, to buy at this price at anytime during the term of the Option.
In return for this Option the tenant pays you a premium rent. Probably enough to cover all your costs on the property, plus some positive cash flow. You may even credit some of their premium rent towards the tenants deposit on the property, if they buy during the term of the Option. It's incredibly flexible and can be written up on the basis of what you both agree.
I'd expect that getting the Commercial Lease drawn up, with an associated Option, will cost you somewhere around $1,000 to $1,200. We, of course, pass these costs onto the buyer.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi Ironlady
Terry is correct in what he says. It's also interesting to note that your mortgage documents probably also preclude you from renting your property, without getting your lender's authority. And guess how many other Aussie's are breaching their mortgage documents by doing certain renovations to the property without lender authority.
The banks seem to be in two minds about their feelings towards vendor finance. I know a number of vendor financiers that have got multi million dollar lines of credit from two of the "4 majors" to run their residential real estate, vendor finance businesses. And these lines of credit were given in the full knowledge that the properties bought with these LOC's were going to be on-sold with Instalment Contracts.
Ultimately it's your decision and following are some information sources for the two most popular vendor finance strategies:
1. Instalment Contracts:
http://www.vendorfinancelawyer.com.au/instalment_contracts.htm
https://www.propertyinvesting.com/strategies/wraps2. Lease/Options:
http://www.vendorfinancelawyer.com.au/rent_to_own.htm
https://www.propertyinvesting.com/strategies/lease-optionsA great general overview of vendor finance in Australia is available at:
http://www.vendorfinancelawyer.com.au/vendor_finance_intro.htmAs you mention leasing the property, it may be worthwhile thinking about selling the property with a Lease/Option. As it's a commercial property, you won't be under the control of the Residential Tenancy Act for the "Lease" part of it (a real bonus). Selling your commercail property with a Lease/Option has the real potential to get you a premium rent that should give you excellent positive cash flow.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi
Just saw Carley give away $120,000 to needy causes on the first episode of the Australian version of The Secret Millionaire. Very uplifting
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi speedlaw
Sometimes it's possible to turn what is currently a "dog" into a income generating asset. By a "dog" I mean a property with little to no capital gain and seriously negatively geared.
For situations like this we use our "negative2positive" process, i.e. we sell it for a premium price with Vendor (Seller) Financing. If I had this property, I'd probably on-sell in with a vendor finance Instalment Contract for well over your $227,500 purchase price and structure the transaction so that it generated around $400 per month positive cash flow.
This would have the effect of moving the property from the Liabilities side of your A&L to the Assets side.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi Jeff
The follow bit, from the Information Sheet, covers this situation:
"Nothing in the new National Credit Act requires you to hold an ACL to provide credit for the sale of your own property(s). However all sections of such a transaction must be structured in accordance with the requirements of the new NCC. This includes the pre sale checks you must carryout, ensuring the Contract documentation complies with the new NCC and that the on going administration of the resulting loan complies with the new Code.
While an ACL may not be mandatory in this situation, it may leave you open to non compliance with the new Act, if you do not get advice and assistance from an ACL holder or Registrant."
If I were you in the situation you outline, I'd get an ACL holder to assist you structuring the transaction correctly and ensuring the transaction is administered on an ongoing basis as per the ACLThe ongoing administration can be done by a specialist VF administration company. These specialist admin companies will be ACL holders or Representatives themselves and may even help to setup the transaction for a reasonable price, especially if you give them the ongoing administration of the Instalment Contract (they usually charge about 4% of monies collected to undertake this admin).
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi Jeff
If you haven't done any vendor finance transactions yet and therefore don't really know if vendor finance is for you, I wouldn't race off and apply for my ACL at this point.
There are a number of ways you can do a few vendor finance transactions without having to have your own ACL (see above). My suggestion would be to investigate the ways you can get ACL coverage for your first few VF transactions and then, if VF is for you, go for your own ACL.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi duckster
Unfortunately ASIC's Regulatory Guides on the Australian Credit Licence (ASL) do not confirm your mention of a requirement for 5 years experience . There is no fixed experience level, if you are applying for an ACL and already hold a Cert IV in Financial Services (usually a 3 or 4 day course). Each application will be looked at individually.
It is true that all ACL holders will be expected to hold a Cert IV by 30 June 2014.
At this time there is definitely no prior experience requirements to become a Representative. It is expected that most ACL holders will however require their Representatives to get a Cert IV now and all Representatives will have to have the Cert IV by 30 June 2014
There are a large number of ASIC Regulatory Guides covering the ACL. They all available of the ASIC website.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi dreamlandprojects
May I suggest you have a look at my most recent post at:
https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/property-investing/creative-investing/4333293
to overcome your misconception that you'd have to apply for an Australian Credit Licence.Also, and this is only my opinion and you should check it with your accountant, it's interesting to note that GST in the case you mention is triggered by a transfer of title. Transfer of title is not effected until "completion" of an Instalment Contract and therefore it's only at this point that GST would be triggered.
It may be worthwhile talking to a professional that really understands the various vendor finance strategies, including their various advantages and disadvantages in the taxation area.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi dreamlandprojects
Depreciation and negative gearing benefits cannot be claimed by the holder of a Lease and an Option. However there is another way. Have a look into another vendor finance selling process called an Instalment Contract (IC). An IC is regarded as a real sale and all State Governments (except SA) pay the FHOG for eligible first home buyers, buying their home with an IC.
As always, please check with your accountant and any other relevant propfessional. Thanks.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi All
In an earlier post above I mentioned our Information Sheet. I'll add it below as it may help. It does mention a course to be run by VFI at the end of it. Hopefully it's not excessive advertising
Vendor Financiers and the Australian Credit Licence
Registration for the Australian Credit LicenceRegistration for the Australian Credit Licence (ACL) closed on 30 June 2010. The Registration process allowed current Vendor Financiers to continue to operate their Vendor Finance business until 31 December 2010.
Businesses that Registered prior to 30 June, then have from 1 July 2010 to 31 December 2010 to make a full Application for the ACL.
Do I need an ACL?
The new National Credit Act requires anybody who is “in the business of” providing consumer credit or consumer credit advice, to hold an ACL
1. You do not need an ACL if you only plan to utilise Lease/Options.
2. If you plan to regularly use Instalment Contracts and/or Second Mortgages in your vendor finance (VF) business, you need to be an ACL holder or an accredited Representative of an ACL holder.
3. Even if you only plan to use an Instalment Contract and/or Second Mortgage once or twice a year, it is advisable to get ACL coverage for your Instalment Contracts and/or Second Mortgages, as the new National Credit Code does not clearly define the meaning of “in the business of …”.
If You Registered
If you Registered before 30 June 2010 you may continue your vendor finance business under this Registration until 31 December 2010. This gives you from 1 July 2010 until 31 December 2010 to apply for and gain an ACL, or alternatively, become an accredited Representative of an ACL holder.
While operating your VF business under the authority of a Registration you must ensure you operate within the rules and guidelines of the new National Credit Code (NCC).
If You Did Not Register
Registering for an ACL is no longer available. If you didn’t Register for an ACL before 30 June 2010 and you wish to operate a vendor finance business that needs ACL coverage, you have three options:
1. Become an accredited Representative of an ACL holder or ACL Registrant. (An ACL Registrant will have to gain an ACL to operate their business, after 31 December 2010.)2. Enter into a Joint Venture with an ACL Holder or ACL Registrant for a specific transaction that requires ACL coverage.
3. Apply for an ACL from ASIC. You should ensure that any transactions requiring ACL coverage are not undertaken until you gain your ACL or have ACL coverage via points 1 and 2 above.Not “in the business of …”
Nothing in the new National Credit Act requires you to hold an ACL to provide credit for the sale of your own property(s). However all sections of such a transaction must be structured in accordance with the requirements of the new NCC.This includes the pre sale checks you must carryout, ensuring the Contract documentation complies with the new NCC and that the on going administration of the resulting loan complies with the new Code.
While an ACL may not be mandatory in this situation, it may leave you open to non compliance with the new Act, if you do not get advice and assistance from an ACL holder or Registrant.
ACL Courses
Vendor Finance Institute Pty Ltd will soon commence courses to assist Vendor Financiers gain their ACL . The “ACL Application Course” will run for four days and is designed to have you ready for a full ACL application upon its completion.The aim of the Course is for you to complete a Certificate IV in Financial Services and have sufficient tools, policies and manuals in place, at Course completion, to allow you to complete the ACL application.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Hi Ryan
We used to use it quite a lot in our vendor finance business, under the name Deposit Finance. However since the GFC, as Richard says, the answer is no. I'd love to be proved wrong
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.