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I think the following link is probably what you read about regarding comparative investment in Mackay and Gladstone. Note that the $107 billion mentioned is for the "Mackay- Isaac-Whitsunday Region". Not just Mackay.
http://www.dailymercury.com.au/story/2012/02/03/investment-skyrockets/Also, I wrote a post on Feb 2nd on thread titled "Qld mining regions…" regarding a trip I made to Mackay, and my impressions of the potential there. I believe it is an excellent place to to perform reno projects.
Tony
I rented a house through LJH Muswellbrook. When they pre-dated a property inspection report two weeks after I moved in, they permanently lost any consideration I might have given them when deciding on my future property managers.
schmoo wrote:I heard a rumour that prices have dropped by 30% in Moranbah and surrounding areas. Is this true? I'm about to sign on the dotted line for a place in Moranbah and reading this thread is making me think twice and looking more towards Mackay for coastal living and more diversity and growth, or Emerald as a more affordable option. The trouble is… neither of these provide the cashflow to enable further investing in the short term.Schmoo, the investors who do well out of Moranbah are those who purchased before the huge increase in yields and and sale prices. "The trouble is…neither of these provide the cashflow to enable further investing in the SHORT term"…yet. "Neither of these" (Mackay or Emerald) provides the risk or stress that you would obviously experience if you purchase in Moranbah…the stress is already revealed in your post. Focusing too much on the short term when investing in property compounds the risk.
I can second Lalibella's opinion of Boyle's (The Professionals). They manage 2 properties for me, and I'm happy with them. They are the second manager I've employed there. Premium proved to be disappointing.
Hi Sam
Neutral and cash flow positive properties are more frequently available in regional areas, particularly in towns benefiting from the resource industry. The Hunter Valley in NSW and the Surat and Bowen Basins in Qld are prime examples. Also some of the port cities such as Mackay and Gladstone offer excellent opportunities for a combination of positive cash flow and potential capital growth. One option is to purchase a house or unit and furnish it to improve yields. By furnishing, you run the risk of reducing the number of prospective tenents, because of course many do not want to rent furnished, but in the areas where there is a lot expansion of existing mines, and new ones under construction, there is generally a high demand for furnished properties from itinerent construction workers on good incomes. The increase in yields on a furnished property is quite likely to push it into the cash flow positive territory, and the furniture is depreciable on tax as well. It may not take long at all to recover the cost of your furniture, and if demand for the furnished properties drops, you can remove the furniture and wherever it ends up, it has already earned it's keep.
Another option to generate positive cash flow, especially in NSW, is to add a granny flat to a suitable property.Tony
Hi nurse1
It might help you to know that you can expect to pay roughly $550 upwards per unit to install split systems, depending on where your unit is. Any extra degree of difficulty will increase the price. But missing out on all the rent you have already, the main thing is to get them installed quickly and get tenents in.
Surely no one in their right mind could seriously consider allowing FIFO workers from another country to come in enmass to mine here? Unless there are some very enticing political and personal payoffs. I agree though, Jack, with proposals such as this floating around we need to be careful about where we invest. The Gallilee Basin will certainly bring huge profits to some investors in the right places, but with uncertainty comes high risk.
There is a new twist to the FIFO approach by the mining companies, with several companies, Adani in particular, pushing for approvals to FIFO overseas mine workers. Clearly not a plan which would be beneficial to Australia, and local mining communities in particular. http://www.cqnews.com.au/story/2012/02/15/extreme-fifo-plan-strikes-fear-in-region/ So Adani want to fly in their workers to rip out the Australian coal, put the coal on their trains on their railroad, load it on their ships at their terminals and send it all to their power plants in their country. And so if we don't have a pathetic little watered down mineral resource rent tax, just what is their in this plan for Australia?
Thanks, Jack
It may be useful for other investors to know that I was told by my mortgage broker that the valuers sent out by the banks have risk categories that they use to rate certain areas. The valuer used to rate a house in Dysart that I had under contract rated that town, as well as Moranbah and several others in the region, at a risk rating of 4 out of 5, five being extreme. He apparently also told my mortgage broker that he knew another valuer who had just raised his rating to a five for those towns.
It might be of interest as a reference point that Mackay is rated at one, and Sarina Beach, half an hour south of Mackay, is rated at three.JT7 wrote:crazya wrote:Also here's a tip for those looking to invest in the mining towns, after speaking to a mortgage broker (Mortage Choice in G), unless you have 20% deposit, you won't be able to leverage into these places. The LMI originators won't go near them and they do not take into consideration the high rent return. Effectively its a risk profile attached to these places in the view of the banks/LMI companies. (Any mortgage brokers/bankers on this forum that can confirm this advice?)If this is the case shame really, as there are some good positive cashflow deals in Blackwater from my reseach!!
Don't know about this one crazya I've been getting finance through MB on this forum at 90%LVR + in mining town. Might just be an issue with retail MB's like Mortgage Choice. I think 90%LVR in towns like even Moranbah isn't such an issue. Jack
My experience seemed to confirm what crazya was told. In August 2011 I had a contract to purchase an off-the-plan unit in Middlemount. I tried for a 95% loan, but was offered a max of 85%, and was told that valuations were difficult there, largely because of few comparable sales. If the unit had been existing rather than off-the-plan, it may have been possible to obtain 95%, but I don't know for sure. The development had unexplained lengthy delays, and the vendor had serious communication issues, so I used the finance clause to terminate the contract.
I later tried to purchase an existing house in Dysart, and in spite of the fact that my mortgage broker tried two banks with two different loan mortgage insurers, I was only offered 80% loans. My mortgage broker then "felt out" other lenders without making full applications, the feedback on the potential to obtain greater than 80% finance was negative.
Jack, I would appreciate a private message with details about your mortgage broker, if you don't mind sharing that information.
More investment planned and approved for Queensland. Links to Mackay and Emerald newspapers…
http://www.dailymercury.com.au/story/2012/02/03/investment-skyrockets/
http://www.cqnews.com.au/story/2010/11/26/new-coal-mine-needs-infrastructure-mayor/
Muswellbrook very busy little town right now, existing nearby coal mines all expanding, new Xstrata mine at Mangoola up and running, with above target production and more expansion and hiring of employees planned now. Bhp's Mount Arthur mine, near town, expanding and hiring. Mount Pleasant mine, just outside town, expected to start construction this quarter 2012. New rail line under construction from Newcastle coal terminal to haul all the increased coal supply from the region. Expansions of coal export terminals at Newcastle ongoing. Extension of F3 most of the way to Singleton will benefit region, possibly more so Singleton than Muswellbrook. Muswellbrook houses much cheaper entry point than Singleton.
Mining companies, State governments and foreign investors and companies pouring money into new and expanding coal mines, new rail lines to ship the coal, expanding coal export terminals in Newcastle, Gladstone, Mackay and Bowen.
A great deal of this information is available on this forum in greater detail. I suggest trying such searchs as "Muswellbrook, Mackay, Bowen Basin, Abbot Point, Hay Point, Dalrymple Bay, Gladstone."
Once you become aware of the unprecedented current and planned expenditure on coal, I think any concerns you may have about the carbon tax will be put into perspective. Watch what the mining companies do, not what they say. I see no indication of them being concerned or cautious about the carbon tax.
I've just returned from a three day house-hunting trip to Mackay. Prior to going, I spent many hours surfing the web looking at all varities of residential properties for sale in the region, including Hay Point and surrounding suburbs. I had quality houses, units, houses with development potential on large blocks, houses with renovation prospects, median price houses etcetera all saved on R.E.com to check out. And of course, I've done my background research.
Having never been to Mackay previously, one of the first important observations I noted was that the majority of the town is very low-lieing and prone to flood-water inundation. In my previous research, I had downloaded and studied council maps detailing flood prone areas, so although this observation came as no surprise, physically seeing the town impressed upon me the risk of purchaseing a property which might eventually suffer flood issues. Discussions with locals and agents revealed that the worst floods in recent memory occured in 2008 when 600mm of rain fell in three to six hours, depending on who I spoke to.
Several of the properties I was interested in are in South and West Mackay, zoned high density residential. It's interesting in these areas that it's very common for rundown, poorly maintained old houses to be surrounded by or adjacent to well renovated older houses, new houses, and blocks of old and new units. The potential to upgrade or demolish and build for a healthy profit is obvious in almost every street i drove down in these suburbs. This phenomenon is not restricted to these suburbs, with many of the northern suburbs showing the same development trends, and in my opinion Mackay presents some of the best opportunities I've seen anywhere in the country for upgrading old houses to increase equity.
Agents all told me that sales are increasing rapidly in Mackay, and several said that even just the last few weeks had shown a noticeable improvement. My own experiences there seemed to confirm this, with many of my selected properties having recently gone under contract, and two which I looked at on Saturday going under contract by Tuesday.
Rental demand in Mackay is very high, with excellent and rising yields, comparable to those currently achievable in Gladstone. Even the poorly maintained old houses rent quickly with prices in excess of $400 p/wk dependent on location.
A trip to the Hay Point area confirmed that rental demand there is high as well. Although the expansion of Hay Point has not officially begun, engineers, designers, managers etcetera are reportedly already engaged there, and demand by the companies for rental properties in close proximity to the site is high. With the impending influx of workers, near-term high yields there are assured. The beach suburbs in the area are an interesting prospect, with a very limited number of properties in the region, although currently there is no shortage of houses for sale there. Again, however, a very high percentage of the properties are very low lieing, which is a scenario I prefer to avoid. Nonetheless, with an increasing number of cashed up miners in the region, and a limited supply of properties in theses areas, many complete with water views and well within the buying capacity of high income earners, I forsee high growth prospects for these properties in the near future.
Back to Mackay. The topography of the town allows a continuous sprawl to occur to the south, which is occuring rapidly with large new developments underway there now. The airport is also to the south of the town. There is a Very Big and busy industrial area there also The expansion of the town to the north has occured in a more disjointed manner, with mangrove marsh and wet areas interrupting development. Some of the moderately higher ground in the town occurs around the suburb of Andergrove, an area which I investigated thoroughly and which offers a wide ranging selection of properties. To anyone who shares the same aversion I have to floods, this is an attractive area. However, I did find that during the "big one" in 2008, the drains in some of the streets were incapable of handling the high volume of water, and consequently even in relatively high areas, some houses suffered water damage. However, due to the sandly loam, the water apparently dispersed very rapidly.
An aspect of construction in Mackay which greatly reduces the potential damage from water, is the usage of concrete blocks for the walls at ground level. This is a common construction method in the older properties, and I witnessed it being utilised in the construction of new houses in ongoing development areas. This material is not prone to the damage which timber and gyprock walls suffer when soaked.
There is a high hill, Mt Pleasant, on the north side of Mackay which stands out. Not a real big hill. Not enough room on it for a lot of houses. Premium space. On the eastern face and the crest of it, it is apparent that many of the more affulent citizens of the town have settled, with expansive houses taking advantage of the views.
I concentrated my focus on the streets around this area, and have returned home with contract in hand for a very tidy 4bd 3 bath, fully airconditioned house (lower walls concrete block) situated about half way up the south west flank of Mt Pleasant. It has views out over the city and the Pioneer River. Purchase price appx $450,000. Current rent potential $600-$700p/wk. High and dry.
It might also be of interest to other investors that I have found that well renovated properties, even though the work may be several years old, have the potential to achieve tax deprciation of around $10,000 p/a.
Oh, and let's not forget airconditioners. It was hot in Mackay. And humid. I found walking indoors into an airconditioned room a welcome relief after spending a few minutes inspecting the yards of houses. Sleeping at night without air con would be unpleasant. Many of the older houses have inadequate airconditioning. If you consider buying a house with old airconditioners, or not enough, factor some new split system air cons into your calculations. You'll have a more easily rentable property, get a better yield, and you can depreciate the air cons.
construction of CSG pipelinehttp://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/story/2012/01/24/csg-pipeline-construction-underway-curtis-island/ about to commence near Miles.
Hi balniks
I would suggest getting a builder around to have a look first. He can assess your situation and give you an idea about what is possible or not possible. Judging by your mention of the "deck kind of thing" I get the impression your plans could benefit from the input of an experienced builder with practicle knowledge. After talking to the builder, you may have new ideas, and definitely a better understanding of what your intentions are prior to approaching council, a planner, or other tradesmen. As a carpenter myself, I'm well aware that the man on the job with the practicle experience is the best person to make initial judgement on the feaseability of ideas.
Cheers, Tony
Von Krumm wrote:Mining towns… $$$
But be carefull, one person says something, does another…TRADEEBA wrote:Unlike Gladstone, Chinchilla market is still warming up and the ship hasnt sailed yet.Wrong!
Aparently Chinchilla's ship has already sailed… 8 rears ago!
http://www.hotspotting.com.au/index.php?act=viewArticle&productId=27Also I've heard great things on Gladstone, what depicts the ship sailing?
Bottom line is search for tips, then do your own research.
Portfolio PI wrote:Coal mining is a lot more stable employment than Coal Seam GasIs this because it lasts longer? Wouldn't it depend on the size of the deposit?
Coal requires a lot more ongoing manpower and machinery to extract than CSG after the initial development. The mines require geologists, engineers, open cut examiners, drillers, mechanics, tyre fitters, explosives technicians, environmentalists, managers, machinery operators, watercarts, fuel trucks, dozers, excavators, road graders excetera to be on site daily, and many of these operate 24/7. A large support industry outside the mine is required to service all the needs of the staff and equipment as well. For instance, if an excavator breaks down at 3 am it will probably affect the operation of at least 3-4 haul trucks, a dozer and a grader. Expensive. The mine requires and receives parts for the excavator, brought to site, even at 3 am Sunday!
Simple? Where is the creativity in that? And "to" is spelt too. And I'm left wondering… what does a creative name have to do with market analysis? Or SIMPLE personal opinion?
Whoops I forgot to mention I live on the N.S.W. Central Coast and do the drive in drive out routine at the mine. I love Australia's coast line. Also worked for eight years as a gemmologist. Should have done a geology course instead of gemmology, then the mines would pay me much more to work for them.
Hi all…my name's Tony.
I came to Oz almost thirty years ago from Idaho, been here ever since. Interesting to see so many yanks posting on this thread! I've been a carpenter in the U.S. and Oz, night shift taxi driver in Sydney (interesting times), school bus driver around Newcastle for a couple of weeks (lousy pay, trying conditions), truck driver (mostly 6 wheel drive articulated trucks on road construction-the ultimate off road vehicle). Now operating heavy machinery on mine site near Muswellbrook (managed to get into fast lane of the "two speed economy").
I've had a lot of fun, followed the easy path too often, but entered an extremely ambitious phase of my life about two years ago. I want out of the rat race. I have done extensive renovations, some ongoing, to my PPOR, refinanced, and purchased three investment properties in "muscle towns". I read a lot, surf this web site regularly, and feed my fairly recent but thriving addiction to property investing. I'm currently tapping equity again for my next deposit on IP.
I closely follow developments in the mining industry, and I'm a firm believer that the unprecedented levels of investment in coal, iron ore and LNG are going to continue to pay dividends to those who purchase properties in the right locations.
I'm here to read, listen and learn. Great website, and i am very appreciative of the generosity of those who share their knowledge here.