Forum Replies Created
Hi Monopoly,
sorry about the ‘sad’ bit if you took offence to it.
I LIVE for someone opinionated and strong enough to have a bit of back and forth with.So now let’s go a little deeper into what I wrote and why. On re-reading your post, it seemed you were looking for…reinforcement that you CAN be moral and make money. A little like a post of yours on a thread elsewhere, from memory.
So it’s a subject you are interested in. (me too!) BUT BUT BUT there were a couple of what they call ‘hidden biases’ which I must have picked up on.
On re-reading they’re quite appparent :
One: ‘the issue of operating strictly in the name of making money, or being more moralistic in one’s behaviour’ says it clearly. Because you used the word OR.
I might have said the opposite of ‘operating strictly in the name of making money’ is ‘operating strictly in the name of losing money’ or perhaps ‘operating extremely loosely when it comes to money’….but you said the opposite of making money is ‘being more moralistic in one’s behaviour’. y’see. that’s your bias.
you also called this whole thread making money VERSUS morals.
So although everything after that read as though (like me) you think it’s possible to have good morals and make money, the HIDDEN BIAS that ran through – because of the OR and the VERSUS – shows that YOU, underneath, believe there is a conflict. That the conflict is within yourself, actually.
Sorry if this sounds too deep and i didn’t really analyse it that much at the time, but in my experience when you touch a nerve with someone it’s because you actually touched a bit that hurt.
so not judging you. I think you are searching your own soul, so to speak, though
NZ Bird Dogs. Wanganui 11.4 percent – PM me!
wow! Way to go CastleDreamer! how many do you have there now?
NZ Bird Dogs. Wanganui 11.4 percent – PM me!
we could just call this ‘capitalism versus communism’.
I like the one where the individual who works hard and strives for success can improve their circumstances. Where countries are more productive, where there is choice, and freedom. Not the one where you stand in the line for your standard ration, free thinking is discouraged, and everyone kinda under-achieves, “cause what’s the point really? we won’t make any more…”in the ‘sympathy model’ above, if they can afford to bid against you for a house, they’re OK. I’d say there are more deserving people to warrant your compassion than them…
Anyway, haha, how’s this for a theory, perhaps they were actors hired by a savvy richmastery investor hoping to emotionally blackmail other bidders to back off what he knew would be a hot property.
cheers-
MiniThe title of this thread, making money VERSUS morals, has already (sadly) made it’s decision that the two can’t go together. Of course you can have both, I do. Most of us do.
I had my uncle telling me that I was ‘ripping off the poor’ by renting properties to them. After searching my soul, doing a couple of renos, I made my peace that I had a) provided a more lovely property than a state house equivalent at b) the same price, thus assuring myself tenants and c) created 1.5 jobs in that town through spending 1.5 times the average wage there doing renos. I sleep well and I think I have just as many morals as my uncle, I just think that he….
hasn’t been there, has never *seen* what I have done, and *imagines* something ‘bad’ out of…..fear? judgement? ignorance?
anyway, he’s not the judge of me, luckily.
Also, I’m helping the government provide low-cost housing, thus reducing the government’s burden to do so if the private sector didn’t invest in rental properties. Thus, in a round about fashion, saving not just my uncle and me but the whole bloody country tax. *you like??!!*oooh, and I’m on a roll with this now, and by increasing my personal wealth, I am less likely to need welfare handouts, more likely to be able to provide for my own retirement, thus further reducing my burden on the government (i.e. everybody else.)
Yah, yah, win – (me) win (everybody) – win (government- now they don’t have to support me, and my wealth creation buddies, they of course have more to spend on parks and drinking fountains for tired pregant women who have just been at auctions) win….
not to mention if the millionaires which we’ll all become tithe and give 10 percent $$$ back to the community, a la the ‘one minute millionaire’!
You just gotta get on with what you’re doing if YOU feel it’s with integrity and take the judgements of others with a BIG pinch of salt.
“Seriously, if that is the case, why bother with circular quay, surfers or the like???”
Uhm,,, I dunno. Maybe you’re a squizillionaire and you want somewhere flash to live? Maybe you need to lose some money to save tax? (heheh)
“Maybe these places are better off as their remoteness will mean you actually get some peace and quiet, away from the hussle and bussle of tourism.”
Remote? Well I guess that once upon a time Byron Bay was remote…
seriously, define remote. I admit I was talking about NZ. There is no such thing as ‘remote’ compared to how ‘remote’ an Aussie property can be. The place just isn’t that big and the nearest sizeable town (banks, RE agents, warehouse) is usually an hour away or less.
The last two places I spotted absolute waterfront and still CF+ve (i.e. around the 60-70K, rents for 150 per week mark) was in a couple of places – one a city of 40000 and one a town of 9000.
i.e. so not ‘remote’ if remote conjures up Broken hill or similar, not that that’s waterfront anyway.
There are some parts of NZ where cattle graze right down to the beach (cows on the beach!) – and believe me, it won’t be like that for ever.
Kay, you can still use tax write-offs to legally minimise your taxable income, even if your properties are *making* money. For instance, I can legally depreciate 93 percent of the PURCHASE PRICE of my properties at 4 percent, ( i bet you don’t even believe me…but it’s true. I mean, that’s more than the average Sydney yield. Yah.)
…. not to mention the cost of my home office, airfares to inspect the property, and the like. Just so you know.Also to sum up my feelings on negative gearing, i don’t necessarily think it’s bad. I just think that if that’s ALL you purchase, you won’t be able to afford to buy any more after a point – depending on how much spare cash you have left to pay into the losing -money properties….
i think the perfect solution is a balanced portfolio with enough CF+ve properties to ‘support’ the neg geared ones. think I might use that strategy myself…*whistles happy tune*
that way you get growth (engine to get ahead faster) and serviceability (CF properties give you passive income.)i.e. my three NZ IP’s are helping fund a slightly-maybe-neutral-ish Aussie capital city property (7.5 percent yield.)
I am very pleased with myself as I have just reduced a credit card by $3000 and actually had the credit limit decreased. The outstanding balance was transferred (internally with ANZ, so no credit check) to a new product card with a 7.99 percent interest rate for transfers from other cards for 6 months, and 10.99 percent for all new transaction. Pretty chuffed with this.
All done instantly with one phone-call.I know an excellent spotter based half in Sydney, and half in Q’land, but he concentrates on Q’land properties. He can also tell your friend why!
Get your friend to PM or email me your/their address if you want and I’ll forward it on.
That goes for anyone else too, but please no tyre kickers. My friend is willing to talk to people I refer, but I also have to make sure they are fair dinkum.cheers-
Minithere is absolutely such a thing as waterfront CF+ve.
cheers – Mini.clue: it’s not circular quay
Castledreamer-
anyway, i think you’re impressive
cheers-
mininot wanting to give too much away if familyfirst is not prepared to share, I can definitely vouch for familyfirst as a fantastic person and investor who I have dealt with!!
“From the above I’m interpreting the general trend to be:
+ve Cashflow IPs generally don’t show much capital growth.”That’s what I always thought, but I have found that (at least in NZ) CF+ve areas tend to be the most undervalued areas! And they go up the same amount as everywhere else, just that, they do it later – the growth ‘wave’ starts in the cities.
Also the properties at the bottom of the market seem to go up quicker, because there are of course always more buyers ‘down there’just my two cents. Having bought 3 x CF+ve properties yielding 20 percent which ALSO went up in value 60 percent in a year.
cheers-
MiniPS Just remembered that westan can probably add to this with some evidence – I remember him telling me about properties he bought 6 years ago which tripled in value in 6 years. They were in the classic ‘What are you doing buying there? You won’t get capital growth’ kinda areas. And believe me, we both got mega growth as WELL as +ve cashflow. +ve cashflow is of course much easier to ‘hold’ and you can get to your retirement goal quicker. I.e. 1 mill of CF+ve property makes you 100K per annum. (15 percent yields, give or take your level of debt.)
However you’d need 3 million of 5 percent yielding properties to make the same 100K a year in income. give or take your level of debt.
And by my logic it’s a lot quicker to get 1 mill of property then 3 mill. Besides, the income from buying the CF+ve properties mean you won’t max out.
Mind you at the moment I am doing a mixture – 3 CF+ve properties for every one negatively geared growth one balances out and means portfolio is +ve geared overall.
cheers-
MiniHi! Great stuff Di.
“
You need to build a relationship with some agents & buy the properties that DON’T get listed “AGREE!!
“Remember list price isn’t the same as the sale price.”
agree!!!!!“If you make 100 lowball offers & one gets accepted…”
DISAGREE!! Firstly, a waste of paper. Save a tree! And it’s not going to end up building good relationships with agents, that’s for sure. it will annoy them.
much better to find out, of those one hundred deals, which ones have motivated vendors or vendors in situations you can solve. I.e. some might love the chance for a long settlement (at a discount to you) and others want a short settlement (at a discount to you.)
I think it’s better to have a cash discount and do repairs yourself than get the vendor to do them – the vendor might do a cheap job but not a good job.
Also stamp duty is only 2-3 percent isn’t it? So on say a $3000 discount that would only be an extra 60 bucks??
re: positively geared.com, “They charge a fee, but are well worth it!”
They charge 4400. I talked to the guy at length. Yes, builder’s report, LIM and maybe a bit of web-printout is included in the price, but let’s say -comparing it to how I’m doing it, I guess is where I’m going with this – we charge $1200 to assign the contract over to you, and you order your own builder’s report from a selection of contacts (thus ensuring it is truly independent) for $350 bucks or whatever and a LIM for $150, plus we give some links and a fact sheet about the area. That’s gonna be a lot more than 15 pages, which is what this outfit is effectively marking up a heck of a lot, like 2.5K. And that extra 2.5 grand is a lot of weeks of rental income. Or money you could sink into redecoration, adding value, or repairs.I dunno.
Value is all relative I guess!BTW do you get to see the BR before you ‘purchase’ the property or after??
believe me, as a bird-dog myself I pondered using this method. (get the DD package, risk upfront to the bird-dog, then charge through the nose to the client.) I even thought over the guy’s offer to help him ‘back end’ his clients for a whopping fee – greater than our entire bird-dog fee which is split between two people.
Interesting stuff to think about
Barry, no worries. i don’t know if it is your first property or not but the waverly one was my first. So I can relate to all the jitters. Jitters is one of the reasons I waited a year to see if the property was going to stack up – and that’s a YES! With some nice impressive rental histories to print out now.
Just TALK to a rental agent not selling you the property and get a proper assessment done, ask about demand.
AFAIK the wanganui region has a glut of sh*tbox properties but not enough decent, clean ones.
but last I checked was november and it was busy as anything then.
cheers-
MiniYeah, I agree with Marc, if you love the tenant, then get a new property manager. but then stay more at arm’s length than you have been and let them do theirr job! I.e. let the PM make the decision, and inform you they’ve given the tenant notice, rather than you taking responsibility for that which you obviously feel uncomfortable about.
However having said that I had some tenants that were in arrears suddenly after a spotless record. Death in the family. So after discussing it with my PM who knew the full story I decided that as the tenants both happened to be professional gardeners that I would be prepared for them to pay back the rent in gardening if they got back on track. So apparently the place is just looking gorgeous now, OK I lost $115 per week for four weeks but adding value to the outside is more what I need now as am about to get the place valued. So I guess in certain circumstances you can make it a win/win, if you feel that way inclined.
cheers-
MiniI have a property in Waverly! Yay!
It’s probably just about doubled in value in a year compared to similar properties on the market now, and as you probably noticed there’s not a lot for sale! AFAIK there is rental demand there as there was a year ago – back then, they had NO properties for rent there and needed some, had three people on the waiting list. Doesn’t sound that much but remember it’s only a town of 1500 people. Did you know that? BUT it’s only 30K along the coast from a city of 45000 (wanganui.) I don’t know if that constitutes a ‘suburb’ as it’s rural (you could get farm worker tenants for example, as I have) but it’s by no means remote. My property is managed out of Wanganui as Waverly is too small to have it’s own real estate agent. Ditto tradesmen.I tell you all this with the disclaimer that I have never actually seen or set foot inside my property!!! I bought sight unseen apart from pictures, and a builder’s report.
Now I have great rental managers who carry out any maintenance that needs to be done, (minor plumbing) inspect, let the property, and pay money into my bank account. What more do you want!Contact me if you want any other help. I am bird-dogging as fast as the hot little market will let me, (that’s a ‘we’ as I have a pardner-on-the-ground) but I’m also personallyy helping people on the phone and via email answering general ‘what do I have to do and in what order and what does this mean’ kinda questions to do with purchasing a property in NZ.
Kinda a hand-holding service. Not that everyone needs it but if you do, just PM me.cheers-
MiniHi there,
As far as I know Kieran Trass is very reputable and has been spotted on this forum as KtKiwi. Don’t think he likes any properties outside Auckland though. i.e. that’s his area of expertise. I get his deals emailed but they are usually priced in the hundreds of thousands.
1. Relationships are key – the more you can chat in a personable way the more information you can get – i.e. people skills are key.
2. I learned how to pick an area which is going to rise in value, before everyone else catches on.
3. The better you know the market, the better you can spot a deal. Knowledge is power.
4. Don’t listen to anybody who doesn’t know what they are talking about. (i.e. non-investors, friends and family who are fearful or financial nightmares, people who don’t know the area you are investing in like you do.) And have the research and the number crunching ability to back up what you know.
5. Positively geared properties go up in value just as much as capital gain properties, i.e. the ‘top’ areas rise and the ‘underdog’ areas catch up so that the price relationship between the two stays about the same
6. Even the worst property in the worst street next to a gang member can turn out to be a great performing investment returning 20 percent yield and 60 percent capital gains in one year.Re: “If you wish to follow your dreams, net worth counts, not cashflow. Just ask your bankers.”
I disagree. I have met many people who are following their dreams in my life, but I can’t ever remember one of them being a BANKER. I wouldn’t say that generically bankers are authorities on the following of dreams.
High net worth is only as good as the cashflow it generates.
Let’s say you own a 4 million dollar property in Vaucluse, which you inherited. You have a high net worth. Cool. You move in there. Great. nice. But you still have to work, or get CASHFLOW somehow just to pay the rates, the electricity, and maintenance.Can you ever buy any more property or follow any dreams? No.! even though you are high net worth you need CASHFLOW for that.
OK you have a person with 1 million worth of property returning 150 income p/a/. 15 percent returns. Less net worth than 4 million person, but can get some quite good dreams happening for 150K a year.
Meanwhile the bankers have changed their tune and are now arguing with the high net worth people about their overdue American Express bill….
they are suggesting a reverse mortgage….So yeah net worth alone is nice and you could do a lot with it, but unless it generates CASHFLOW it’s…pointless i would have thought?
I have four properties ….man, that rolls off the toungue really nicely….well actually, I only have three. Which I own 100 percent – no finance. but have a contract to sign for IP #4 on Tues!!
Am about to get first ever loan in my whole life . this will effectively double the size of my asset base so is actually a bigger deal comparitively for me- I will be then 50 percent LVR over the whole portfolio.But have been extremely busy lately finding deals for Aussie investors in NZ. In fact it’s hard to keep up with demand!!!
