Forum Replies Created
i agree henry. let’s say the actual bird-dogging costs $1500 then they are marking up builder’s report and LIM which together cost say $500 max, at least 400 percent.
I guess there has to be something there in case they spend upfront on due diligence and don’t take the deal, but really their clients are being charged this few hundred percent markup for a builder’s report that might not even be independent – could have been done by the bird dog’s cousin who’s a builder, or whatever
joy to the world
hi marc!
> How good or bad investment areas are is a matter of opinion not scientific
> fact.
totally, but…increased demand is a fact, when it happens – and one of the investor’s jobs is trying to predict where future demand will happen.
Pretty areas, ‘desirable’ areas – that’s an area close to *something* – be it the ocean, jobs, city, transport – that you think a lot of people will want. So yes, it is an opinion, but it is based on patterns.It’s only an OPINION of mine that Broken hill wouldn’t be a great place to buy as CF yields might be ALL you might get for a long time – and you might have to weigh the yields up against possible capital LOSS. – seeing as I’ve never been there.
but it is an opinion based on unease about a place which is not only remote but has only one main industry. That combination says to me, if anything happens to that mine, the town might die, and because of the location it will be hard to attract people there for other reasons.
> I don’t own properties in Broken Hill but a friend of mine who has being
> buying CF+ properties before Steve even graduated from university does own two
> and is happy about them so far.Yep, anything tends to turn good over the long term – the mine is still going strong from when your mate bought it until now, and they are probably getting crazy 35percent plus yields compared to their purchase price.
I guess I just would be dubious about buying there NOW. I feel that the whole Aus market will deflate, and broken hill too. I also feel that Broken hill might be the LAST place to go up in value in the next boom.
what are the yields there? Are they enough return on your money? i reckon you’d want at least 5 percent in the hand clear with no risk, and at least double that if there was a risk. so I’d say it would only be ‘safe; to buy in broken hill if you could get a 17percent yield or higher. What are they like there right now?> An example is there for all to see, a block of flats in Mt Isa. Now in the
> spirit of a constuctive debate, why don’t we debate if you would purchase such
> block of flat or not and in each case what makes you decide and why.
> I start the ball:
> Need local knowledge to know if it falls in local no-go-zone or not. Need to
> know if furnished or not. Need to know if undercover carport are available.
> This town has a very high per capita income, one bedroom and two level is on
> the cheepest side, will probably get tenant that are not at work.
> Visit with an independent person that has local knowledge is essential. Note
> that the agent is from out of town. My guess is that the local reputable agent
> and Jay’s is one of them, would not want to know about this property, but that
> is only a guess. May be a good deal, but needs a good deal more research “in
> situ”.I don’t really mind tenants who aren’t working, provided they are tidy and good payers with references. Sickness beneficiaries and the elderly need a place to live, too, as do full time solo mothers.
I would do due diligence about rental demand, rental prices, the chances of vacancy and the usual time to relet a property. The actual street and the neighbours. the property itself (builder’s report.) if a rental manager would take it on.
but really the most important is ‘is there demand for this kind of property?’
because no tenant = no cashflowcheers-
Minijoy to the world
I would actually use DD as a bird-dog myself for my own purchasing!! And am planning to do it later in the year. He is a legendary investor and I did my own due diligence on the research he has done (another bird dog with money where his mouth is, like me!!) – and although he does it in a different style to me he’s very very worth it and an expert in his area, Queensland.
we do it in a different way to DD though, because we already have the contract signed up – the deal is therefore certain. So we also have to have an assignment document prepared. Also the property is inspected, photographed and with a written description, before it’s sent out ‘on spec’. and our fee includes title search which has to be done within 5 days. Also because it’s an overseas purchase most investors usually need some kind of help and assistance.
cheers-
MiniPS As far as family and friends go, I don’t charge them at all!
joy to the world“Just goes to show how clueless I am.”
geo – !!! hahaha. me too. well, as i would say,
‘we were all born clueless, but haven’t we come a long way?’
joy to the world
thanks richmond, you rock my world
joy to the world
I thought the thing with Japan is that gaijin can’t get FINANCE in japan, but if they come with cash they can buy.
?????Do you love Japan stormbiz? I think I am going to fully convert. I adore the place. I was there last month for ten days. Actually the only thing I hate there is fake japanese western food, i.e. a japanese italian restaurant…soo weird….we had to go to some though because not everyone in the party liked japanese food.
i think the foreigner rental thing is actually done through word of mouth. I was reading this whole forum thread about property investing in japan, but it wasn’t on this site i don’t think.
daikanyama ebisu/harajuku was my fave
joy to the world
the way we do it is that we actually use an assignment document.
We are not really selling ‘the property’ per se, we are selling the contract on the property. we aren’t even selling the ‘obligation’ to purchase the property, because we pass the deal on *before* it has become unconditional, and the new purchaser does their due diligence and goes from there. (we help set that up too.) Often the defects which show up in the builder;s report can be used to negotiate further, or to get the vendor to agree to fix by settlement, or as a reason to pull out, or you might proceed anyway if it’s nothing too major.
We now also have an extra clause in the contract which the vendor signs off on giving us the right to assign the contract, so everyone is in the loop – vendor, and agent. Most agents and lawyers seem to be down with the whole bird-dog concept, occasionally you get a vendor who can’t quite get their head around it, but there’s even a work-around to that which we solved today with one of our deals.
We have hardly had any deals fall over, yay, which is great – only one this year which fell over on builder’s – but even then another client picked it up.
cheers-Mini
Oh PS aceydeucy, no, nice try at an insinuation though. In fact we are so not trying to avoid any law, that we in fact we consult lawyers at all stages – in the beginning I didn’t even put contracts on properties, the client did directly, all I was doing was basically deal research. The new way we do it is so that we don’t get gazumped, because with the old way, if I’d found a deal for a client and they thought about it too long and decided yes, sometimes it was gone, so the contract ensures our work is not wasted.
but even before we bird-dogged we had it legally sorted with custom-drafted wording and clauses.
I see buyer’s agent as functioning slightly differently to a bird-dog- i.e. client says ‘mini find me a deal with these parameters’ and gives me authority to act as their agent – that’s buyer’s agent.
not quite the way we do it – the way we do it is on spec. We find the deals, tie them up with a contract which can be assigned, and then offer them to our clients – not knowing who is going to pick them up, or even if someone *is* going to pick them up. the clients haven’t commissioned us to act as their agent or anything, they are just simply on the mailing list.
So then when we assign the deal, on payment of the bird-dog fee, the client legally ‘steps into our shoes’ and the deal is signed over to them, along with the rights and obligations. You are basically buying the contract from us. But you also get a lot of service with that.
So then after we have assigned the deal we are still strictly speaking not buyer’s agents then either – in fact, at no point did we have the power to act on our client’ behalf.
although we do babysit and watch the deal until it settles and assist with the process i.e. what do i have to do, in what order? some options of people to use, etc – it’s an important distinction that the client has full independent rights to make decisions about the purchase on ‘their’ contract.
joy to the world
I’ve edited this post down as a lot of it didn’t make sense any more in context of nothing!!
Broken Hill is a one-industry town – mining. There has been a significant decline in the mining industry over recent years.
I invest in NZ myself, and have three properties returning 20 percent yields, which have increased in value 60 percent in the last year, with all signs pointing to continued growth.
I believe NZ is where Australia was 2-4 years ago – i.e. still with lots of CF+ve opportunities as well as lots of legs for growth.
To me it’s a much better bet to buy NZ CF+ve in a town with high rental demand, within 80 k of fast-growing cities, international airports, on a main highway, and within 45 minutes of tourist attractions, in a region people are throwing money at, at the moment – just as one example.
rather than somewhere like Broken hill which is too risky in my opinion.cheers-
Minijoy to the world
PS Jo, apropos ‘feral’, renovation isn’t for everyone. But it’s a good way to get more house for your money. As steve says in his book you haven’t read, you can make money by solving problems. A ‘feral’ house which is otherwise structurally sound can be turned around completely with a repaint, handyman, curtains, light fittings, and maintenance catch-up. it’s easy to make thousands if not tens of thousands (depending on the value of the property) on top of the amount you spent, to the value of the property. and you also get the compounding value of the equity you just gained – i.e. 80k house, spend 5 on it, 95. and 25 percent CG on 95K is more than 25percent growth on 80 plus 5, which is what you spent.
So it’s a technique I use to gain equity, not to mention cashflow – your newly tidy and attractive house of course rents for more, too! even though I hate doing reno’s myself and never even lift a paintbrush any more – these days I just ‘have it done’ -I did do it once just to ‘get it out of my system’.
Sk, PM me your email address and I can send you pictures and numbers of some real, and recent, examples.
Celivia,
Kay isn’t hurt. see?
*checks for pulse*
Anyway, CPR has come a long way ….stem cell therapy is showing promise…she’ll be fine, i’m sure….
Kay was just against me being against something.
Huh!She is probably still smarting from the time I exposed that shameful extortionist posing as ‘guru to the feeble-minded’.
I call it as i see it, always have done, and if I can protect some poor newbie buying in broken hill ‘because it’s CF+ve’ and kay’s feelings got hurt in the process, it’s her own fault, because she was the goose that led them there when she didn’t even think it was a good idea herself – hence the accusations of time-wasting, especially when she got into the psychobabble.
that’s it in a nutshell.
Kay, when your hip replacement has healed, call me when you’re up for another game of tennis?
cheers-
mini*wink*
joy to the world
hi monopoly,
I’m from wellington, where you have earthquake drills at school, where you feel tremors where the glasses in the cupboard rattle, and you occasionally stand under a doorway or get under the table! Oh yeah, and ruapehu was puffing last time I skiied on it, too – there was still lots of black ash around from the last eruption…yep, it’s all true, and boiling mud pools in rotorua and boiling crater lakes are also all part of the fun….hot streams….the ground is warm in rotorua from the thermal activity. free hot water…a lot of homes use this to heat.
coromandel, hot water beach – take a spade and dig a hole at low tide, lie in it and let the hot water from underneath fill it up to make a natural hot spa pool right on the beach.
Yeah, i grew up on a fault line.
you won’t find brick houses in wellington that much (unless reinforced) for that reason – wooden houses are fantastic as they have a lot of give.our school was closed down as it was due for multi-million dollar earthquake reinforcement the school just couldn’t afford.
what else?
Oh yeah.earthquakes are awesome. And you could get struck by lightening waiting for one…joy to the world
‘bird-dog’ is a Steve McKnight word, he says it’s what they call deal-finders in the US. i guess if you are into birds, you use a bird-dog to sniff them out…I don’t like the word ‘spotter’ because it reminds me of the word ‘spotty’ which means pimply, or patchy, or inconsistent…and any fool can ‘spot’ a good deal, but not just anyone can negotiate it, put a contract on it, and guide the Aus first time investor through to settlement which is what we do, along with provide a HEAP of information. I also do a half-price version where the person finds their own deal, but i help out with everything else and the order it needs to happen in. I call it ‘better than bird-dogging’ because the person ends up able to do it all by themselves after that.
joy to the world
you could always go and see that heinously expensive structuring guy in melbourne that wrote wealth guardian with Steve. Just make sure y is equal to or greater than x, if
$x is the cost of structure, and y is the tax you save or offsetjoy to the world
> a) Whether your first porperty was a PPOR or an IP,
IP
> b) What made you think about buying a first property and
Had 80 k burning a hole in my pocket. Knew term deposit wasn’t the answer. Tried learning shares but a chore, not for me. was already building businesses. Realised property was the best (for me) as far as risk profile, long term, tangible asset with intrinsic value, income stream etc
Learned the ropes from a couple of Steve seminars> c)When you found the one you bought, why do that one suit?
27,300 rents for 110 per week = 20.9 percent return
Pretty house, corner section, can subdivide later, no renovation or maintenance required. High rental demand. Street appeal. Seaside town.> d) Was the first purchase emotive or done under proper due diligence.
Not really any emotion, other than ‘it’s cute and if I were a tenant I’d want to rent it’.
Didn’t inspect the property in person, and a year later have still never been there. Due diligence was builder’s report, electrical and plumbing, talking to rental agents and ascertaining demand, ‘we’re screaming out for more rental properties in this area! good tenants on our books waiting!’ finding out the street was OK, that was about it.
wasn’t looking for capital gain, was told ‘wouldn’t get it there’ but was happy with 20 percent return and minimal CG i.e. 5 percent a year. Actually had about 50 percent growth at least in the last year.joy to the world
>I didn’t recommend anything. I referred the >author of the post to a RE in Broken Hill.
don’t split hairs, you know there are some people here who may go and take your ‘referrals’ as advice, whether you meant it or not. Be responsible with your ‘referrals’.
it’s a bit like saying ‘here, have a black jellybean’ knowing the kid is gonna spit it out.
>And what would I be “admitting” to?
That broken hill despite “being CF+ve” is the dregs of the Australian property market and represents desperation, in that people might actually take leave of their senses and purchase there in their crazed pursuit of CF+ve properties. (now, maybe if they fixed that hill….)
If someone would like to stand up in defence of investing in BH now would be a good time…
>The point that I was making in my last post is >that one person’s due diligence is another >person’s dream-breaking negative naysayer >attitude.
Yah whatever. Too subtle. What I read was ‘Broken Hill is a go!”
>Sometimes I question things, and people’s RE >choices, and sometimes you do.
>I like people to think about things,and I like you to think about things before you write them, next time, and waste my and everybody’s time a bit less by causing me to pull you up on it
>I was really joking about hte negative naysayer >thing,
well then write “hehe” after it next time so i don’t miss it again when you’re cracking a joke, or else work on your punchlines some more
>when someone else critiques someone’s strategies >or RE, then some* people on here howl them down >as negative naysayers., when in fact, that >person is merely trying to engage in discussion >and provide different perspectives, and that >what is good for the goose, ought be good for >the gander.
I gandered right back, backing up why I said eww/dregs and you went all soft on me. Hopeless. I think this time it’s me gander, you goose
>I am suggesting that we all engage in critique >when we feel it is necessary.
i felt it necessary to criticise your ‘referral’ of people to Broken Hill where they could find some +ve CF properties. trap for the unwary player, and all that.
>Or are we both engaging in discussion from our own viewpoints?
You don’t even have a viewpoint. You’re just wasting time disagreeing with me for the sake of it.>Now, admit I am right! hehe! Problem is, you have to work out what you are >admitting I am right about though :+P
*aaargh* save me from the psychodrama
joy to the world
i’m with kay, I’m going continue to rock until rock won’t have me any more
NZ Bird Dogs. SOLD OUT! More deals coming…
*shhesseh!!!* so overmyself with that stoopid signature…going to delete it right now…never had to advertise before…word of mouth waas enough…and so back to word of mouth it is!!Biotech may or may not be the next ‘big thing’, but people will always need houses.
“In China there’s no debate about the ‘right to life'”
Well, sounds like you’ll fit in real well then. until your life is under threat, perhaps?
NZ Bird Dogs. SOLD OUT! More deals coming…
heya westan!
I’d have to partner with a Japanese on the ground over there…to get over the language barrier. And then apparently after you buy your Tokyo apartment, you rent it to the niche market, being, whiteys teaching english there, who find it hard to get an apartment with a japanese landlord who don’t really like geijin tenants.
Don’t forget you are not only buying for yourself these days but for clients, putting much more ‘stress’ on the market than if you were only shopping for yourself.
…..NZ Bird Dogs. SOLD OUT! More deals coming…
“Sure you can look at hundreds of properties quickly online – but who wants to waste time doing that!”
Aceydeucy, perhaps I just cast my net a bit wider than yours. It’s just a research tool with which I retain my kind of….encyclopaedic knowledge of the market. (NZ). Basically I make it my business to look at the entire market on a regular basis.
>And we only look at the ones we offer on (except >when researching an area
>We first research the areas – so we don’t need >to trawl through lots of properties pointlessly.I certainly research the areas too but I also research *the properties in the area* as a part of that research.
>Most of our online time for properties is spent >researching, not looking at specific properties.
If I understand you correctly, you are purchasing properties in an area you have ‘researched’ but this ‘research’ doesn’t include looking on the internet at other properties in that area….
that to me is quite a wacky concept which I can’t quite get my logical head around.BTW do you have high speed internet access?
NZ Bird Dogs. SOLD OUT! More deals coming…
Kay, I didn’t even think you were really into CF+ve properties to begin with and now you’re recommending Broken Hill.
My, how the worm hath turned!! And I’m being called a negative nay-sayer now, when only a couple of months ago i had to email you pictures of my properties so you could know what I was talking about!!
I am now a bit scared that I may have over-convinced you – rushing off to broken hill to buy what you think is an equivalent property to the ones I bought.
SOOO NOT!! in my opinion!
I don’t have any issue with super-cheap properties, i love them!! I think they go up in value at a rate disproportionate to what they SHOULD go up at! it’s wicked!
I know why I bought three super-cheap properties – I could get three houses instead of one – and you know what? that appealed to me! Also the towns are really pretty, one is on the coast, sure it might have only had a population of 1500 but it was only half an hour out of a large regional town/city – and most of all, there was high rental demand, (rental agent had zero properties for rent. demand has increased now so they have 70 people on the waiting list) – prices were ridiculously low and I had observed what had been happening in Australia/tasmania and believed NZ was next. i was right and have achieved capital gains of 50-60 percent in one year as well as 20 percent yields. One of my towns was in an area near tourism i.e. kind of what Cooma is to Jindabyne, on a main artery highway, 2 hours from international airport, in the populated island where 3/4 of NZ lives, stable farming town, new cafes and tourist attractions popping up all the time (area in transition) , sought after for lifestyle block type country idyll living…
So I know why IIIIII bought there. But do you know why *you* are buying in Broken Hill? I mean, sell the place to me…give me some ideas of prices, rental demand, etc….
Convince me it’s NOT the ewwww-dregs of the Aussie property market I think it is…
Queenstown Tasmania I think is much more comparable to NZ than broken hill is…but there was no deal-breaker reason to buy there instead for me, only negatives (CG tax, stamp duty.)
if you’d bought my kind of property in Queenstown though (16 k, trashed, do it up for 9) you probably would have had good yields and 60 percent capital gains as well. I have never said anything against Tasmania. but broken hill…
I don’t have any issue with buying cheap properties. of course I don’t!! Sometimes I wonder where you are coming from with your…um…comprehension of what I write. So not!
So didn’t say that!!Yep. the mono-industry ALONE exists in NZ too (one such town happens to be the number two cashflow town) but i don’t have anything there yet, though am looking at a block of flats perhaps. BUT unlike broken hill it’s 80K away from an international airport and the second biggest city in NZ.
With broken hill, it’s the combination of middle of nowhere, hostile climate, mono-industry
that to me says – ” why would I choose that when I could get the same yields in NZ for the same price without all that added risk?”I mean, CONVINCE me, if you wanna have a real debate here, or else, just admit i am right.
NZ Bird Dogs. SOLD OUT! More deals coming…
Yeah westan, you’re undercutting us, hehe
No we had to put the prices up because our (cheap) lawyer wasn’t cutting it and we had to use a different more high powered lawyer who is a little more expensive, but gives much better service. plus like i said we include title search. So more security for the purchaser too. Also after costing out the time and the cost to source the deal and see it through to completion or at least give the client as much assistance as they want, cause as you know the after-care period for each deal is quite lengthy…anyway so far so good and we might introduce a loyalty discount system for repeat clients.NZ Bird Dogs. SOLD OUT! More deals coming…
