I'm looking at some inner-city apartments which (so it seems) have a guaranteed return and no outgoings as the tenant pays it all. These apartments are leased to Hotels. This whole scenario seems too good to be true so I'm assuming it is – what's the catch?
Does anyone out there have investments of this type?
What you're referring to are serviced apartments. Most of them low return investments as your options are very limited in terms of what you can do with the property. Like you cant live in it yourself or rent it out like any other property. These properties usually have minimal growth unless there is something unique about it.
There is another type which you can either live in it or rent it out or give to the hotel to manage it for you and get your rental guarantee. They have better growth. Look for these type of properties if serviced apartments are your preferred choice of investment.
To answer your question: It is true but not too good.
If they've closed up shop there's probably not much you can do.
They have probably declared bankruptcy for that company.
Lesson learned; don't go for rental guarantees; they are usually built into the price of the property when YOU buy it, and it is usually above market rent, so when it runs out in 2 years, you are left with a property that rents far lower than what they were paying you.
Your right just stay away from rental guarantees. There's way too many headaches involved with rental guarantees. Usually the properties you would buy with rental guarantees are overpriced too.
Did you know the higher the number of bedrooms the better the capital growth? Mainly because of the scarcity factor. There are heaps of 1 and 2 bedroom units on the market but not many 3 bedrooms. The rental return is abit less than 1 or 2 bedroom apartments but better capital appreciation.
What makes you think 3 bedrooms are no good for investing?
With the amount of activity going on in docklands, there will be an oversupply of stock there for quite a while still. I had a friend who just sold his docklands apartment and made a capital loss of 80k after holding it for 4 years (an off the plan special where he thought he was getting it cheap), and not to mention his interest cost.
First of all your friend bought at the wrong time and sold at the wrong time. Because while you have a case of Docklands being oversupplied in last 2-3 years, things are changing now. According to Colliers International "Annual demand for apartments within the city of Melbourne (Docklands included) is expected to outstrip supply over the next two to three years, underpinned by strong population growth".
To prove that, a project we launched last thursday in Docklands; over 110 of the units were snapped up in just over a week. No advertising whatsoever. I've never seen a project sell at that rate before. If that's not demand then I dont know what else is.
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I am leaning towards land with an average house on it I can rent out.
An average house wont minimise your tax. So maybe you should first workout your strategy whether it's to minimise tax or buy an average house on a land which you might want to renovate or knock down and redevelop later on.
As the title suggests, what would be a realistic IP value I should target? ie. 500K 750k. I am trying to minimise tax, as at the moment, payiong tax on 120k is not pretty, and would like to negative gear using my equity in my home. I am 33 and so looking to a long term plan, not just a quick term solution ie. margin loan for a quick fix. Any idea? BTW I am looking at property in the SE seburbs of Melb. Would people go for land value or new units (ie. to maximise the depreciation and minimise the tax)? Thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Everyone has been saying buy 2 cheap ones but why not go for a well located penthouse maybe in the CBD. Usually they have much better growth than 1 or 2 beddas and your depreciation will be high aswell.
Going for tax benenifit only is sucide. So make sure you invest in something that will appreciate in value as well.
I did an Investment Analysis for you by using a penthouse as an example. Now remember if you buy a brand new penthouse you'll be paying atleast $1mill. If you buy one OTP in Melbourne then you can get away with the building stamp duty. That's savings of atleast $30k. 3beddas in a higher level is also a good option.
I had a look at Melbourne Docklands Penthouses and they are renting atleast $1200/week so I'm using that as a guide.
I think your tax payable should be $35k something but it says $37,500 so we'll just go with that.
If you multiply $358/week by 52 weeks then you'll have to pay $18,616 out of your pocket. That might seem alot but if you add that up with the NEW TAX PAYABLE it adds up to (18,616 + 13,246 = $31,862 ).
(Old Tax Payable) $37,500 – $31,862 (New Tax Payable + Repayments) = $5,638 So you’re actually better off by $5,638 by investing than if you don’t. But if you do invest then the guys at the tax office definitely wont be happy since you’re gonna rob them of precious tax money. Also if we calculate the growth of your property at 10% p/a then in 10 years time your $1mill property will be worth $2,593,742. That’s a cool $1.5mill by doing nothing. If we break that $1,593,742 in to 10 years then on average you would have made yourself $1,593,74. Let’s say your property also works 52 week every year so we’ll divide it by 52 week which comes up at $3,064/week. Now lets say your property works only 5 days a week like yourself I’m assuming. $3,064/5 = $613 per day. Even though your property is working 24/7 to make you money but lets say it also works 8 hours a day from 9-5. $613/8 = $76.6 per hour.Your property is actually making more money than you are by earning $76.6/hour.
Now imagine if you have 5 of these over the next 20years. $76.6 x 5 = $383/hour. If you buy one every 2.5 years and nothing after the 10th year. Obviously the analysis below is just an example. If you want me to make any changes to it then let me know.
I have signed up for the free course in melbourne on the 22nd-24th of feb Has anyone been to this course before Any advice?
Thanks
Free NLP? Who's running it? I know Tad James will cost you a fortune. 3000 or 4000. There is also run by George Faddoul. Forgot his company. They charge $300.
WHAT??? You sure are getting ripped off. My solicitor charges $880 inclusive of GST. That was back in March. Not sure how much she charges now. She's in burwood though. If you want I can give you her details.
Great advice there Paul – certainly help to expand my blinkered vision of investments.. btw, any advice on commercial property thrown into the mix here anyone? <br /:-)” title=”>:-)” class=”bbcode_smiley” /> Astra
Only if you can handle the risks involved. Commercial property is very much dependant on the economic and business growth of that particular area, state or country. If those two are down then there will be less demand for commecial properties meaning: lower rents, longer vacancies (upto a year), low capital growth. Usually with commecial you have to give free rent periods such as 3months or 6months and maybe 1year depending how long the lease is for.
And certainly not for newbie investors. If if you have atleast 3 or 4 residentials with a good income to be able to make interest repayments without getting any rent for those long vacancies then you can give it a try.
5 – Remember Law of 14. If the capital growth is 10% then rent will be 4%. If rent is 10% then capital growth will be 4%.
Where did you get this law from?? I've never heard of it before, have you got any info on it, it sounds good as I have been assuming in my calculations of capital growth 5.5% and rent 4.5%(total 10 instead of the 14).
Chris
Michael Yardeny. My senior Manager uses Law of 15 but I like to be more conservative and use 1% less. I dont know if anyone else uses it but from the limited research and number crunching I've done on a few properties…most of the time the numbers do stack up. That's why I use it. Definitely much better to use this than wild guessing the estimations if no proper stats are available.
I reckon Semerda and Jackie work for them. I've seen quite a few companies use this "what you guys think of this company or deal, etc" tactic to get you interested in their product. I'm not surprised they both have one post each.
One question i have is about city apartments for example buying a hotel apartment and then leasing it straight back to the hotel. Now what i dont understand is why these apartments would be for sale in the first place does the owner of the hotel chain know something i dont??
The reason they do that is by selling the apartments, they generate extra revenue which they use to build more of these hotels or other developments.
There is nothing wrong with buying one of these provided you buy the right one. A lot of the new serviced apartments offer much more flexibility in terms of how you want to manage it. There are those where you buy the apartment off them and they give you a fixed rental guarantee and your stuck with for the term of the lease. These properties tend perform pretty poorly in terms of capital growth.
Then there are those which you can either let the management company manage it for you, manage it yourself or give to a property manager which you can rent it out as long term or short term or you can live in it yourself. The good thing about these type of apartment is that you can lease it out as short term (holiday) most of the year and then go live in it for a few weeks when you go on holidays.
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Also i assume a property trust would be established for tax purposes and i have read in other forums of other benefits such as asset protection so it seems logical that i establish a trust but is this really the best way to go about things what other options do i have??
Trust is good if you're at risk of being sued otherwise it could be pretty costly. Trusts like Family Trust I believe you cant claim any tax benefits such negative gearing so there is no point in getting that unless you own the property outright.
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Now i have one more quick question today and thats if anyone can assure me that i can still find a positively geared property without buying a unit block that needs renovation, i have found one property that i would deem a decent investment its in the CBD and its $110,000 and return $11,000 in rent last financial year what do you all think
I would assume that it's a studio as you cant find such a cheap property in the CBD anymore. CBD strata levies are usually high so make sure you dont get stung by that as it could eat up most of your rent. Also with studios there isnt much capital growth so it might take you longer to accumulate properties since you wont be building any equity in the property in any hurry.
1 – Buy Quality NOT Quantity. 2 – If you wanna create wealth then go for High Capital Growth properties. 3 – If you wanna be able to replace your income then go for Positive Cashflow properties. 4 – Stay away from Defence Housing 5 – Remember Law of 14. If the capital growth is 10% then rent will be 4%. If rent is 10% then capital growth will be 4%. 6 – Higher property price = High growth, low rent 7 – Cheap property = High rent, low growth 8- It's the Return on your Investments that matters not how cheap the property is. 9 – There is Cheap and then there is Cheap. First cheap = Property is cheap because there is no demand for it or something wrong with it. Second cheap = Property is undervalued. If market price is 350k and you buy it for 300k then that is CHEAP!
Tip: New investors should always aim for capital growth over positive cashflow as the extra equity will help you build up your portfolio quicker….that's if you can afford the negative cashflow as is the case with mostly high growth properties.
Yea Masih, I have heard of these deposit bonds, where you pay a small amount and they pay the deposit then, later you pay the lot. But I have heard something about getting approval for these bonds, like you need to have a certain income(3 times the bond or something???)
Um, I have heard alot of bad publicity aimed at off-the-plan in these forums lately.
I am worried also that the (around) 25K that we will have saved up and my income( around 50K, hers 15K) will not be enough and we will have to forfeit the purchase.
I'm not sure if they still give deposit bonds based on income. Usually people use deposit bonds if they have a certain amount of equity in their property….atleast 5 times I think.
Yes you need to be very sure that you will be able to settle the property. If you're income isnt high enough then you could be in abit of trouble. I believe the banks are willing to lend you up to 5 or 6 times your income. Add and minus the rent and your other debts, expenses etc.
You're right OTP does get bad publicity. Most often from people who have never dealt with OTP properties. One of my teachers used to say that "humans are like sheep". They follow the crowd. If one says OTP is bad then the rest will too. That's not to say that OTP doesnt have any risks but it's important who you take your advice from. All types of investment strategies have their own risks and benefits. It's up to you what clicks with you.
Oops, I meant to say – house prices are driven by the willingness and ability of people to borrow enough money to pay the price. Rents are driven by wages alone. You can't get a mortgage for rental payments.
Cheers, F. [cowboy2]
Those who arent willing and dont have the ability to borrow then they have to rent. Everyone want to own their house provided they can afford to pay the mortgage. The more rates go up, the less the affordibility. Those who cant afford will rent. Is it wrong to use logic?
Besides wages are one of the contributing factors affecting rents just like interest rates but not the only factor.
All those people who you've been talking to, telling you risks are too high; are they investors themselves? Do they have experience working in the property industry? If they do then maybe they are right. Otherwise everyone like to give free advise.