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  • Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    @mark-coburn
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    Questions:

    What is the yield for each? (the unit should be higher than the house)

    What is the vacancy rate in the area? (houses & units)

    What is the capital growth rate for houses and for units likely to be over the nest 3, 5, 10 years?

    How old are they?

    How depreciation are you likely to be able to claim?

    My hunch is three one bedroom units are going to out perform a three bedroom house, or at least they should in theory. I would prefer three rents over just one, especially if I was just starting out. Way less risk!

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    Terryw wrote:

    Never go directly in my opinion. You need advice on structuring the loan and there are a few tax strategies you could employ with that deposit money too – have your cake and eat it type.

    +1 very well said in just two lines.

    "You need advice on structuring the loan and there are a few tax strategies…." don't be afraid to spend a couple of dollars to get some good tax advice as Terry suggests.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    @mark-coburn
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    Hi Kurtuk,

    I agree that north of the Brisbane CBD is the area, but not too far if you are looking at units.

    OLD vs. NEW?

    This is a decision each investor needs to consider based on their own tolerance for risk and how they see the upside.

    Overview:

    Owning investment property is a business, and at the end of the day it needs to make a profit for its owner. Like running a business, the owner needs to balance managing risk vs. creating wealth. The risks with NEW are manageable and mostly known vs. those of OLD which have many unknowns, and can’t be fully known prior to taking ownership.

    Pros:

    Old Property

    • Possible to add value by renovating.

    • Lower purchase price for OLD compared to NEW of the same size, location, etc.

    New Property

    • Rent demand for NEW property is far greater. NEW is more likely to have less vacancy.

    • NEW is more sort-after by tenants. On a square metre by square metre comparison, NEW rents for more.

    • Depreciation credits for NEW far outweighs the price premium NEW has over OLD.

    • Repairs and maintenance expenses are low and predicable for the first 10 years.

    • NEW property attracts better tenant due to the higher rent than the OLD property.

    • Lower stamp duty on NEW House & Land investments.

    Cons:

    Old Property

    • OLD has many potential unknown maintenance issues. Extensive due diligence, building reports are required prior to purchase.

    • With apartments special levies can be sprung on owners without any notice. Major repairs may have potentially been overlooked and not yet recorded at body corporate meetings. Once a special levy is called, owners have no option, but to pay the levy as directed.

    • No depreciation credits for property built prior to 18 July 1985.

    • OLD properties rent for less, and tend to have a higher vacancy rate than NEW.

    New Property

    • 3% – 5% more expensive than an OLD comparable.

    • With apartments there can be many similar properties on the market for rent at the same time at completion.

    FOLLOW this link to view a comparison depreciation table between OLD & NEW.

    We create a 20 year cash flow for each IP for our clients, they can then see the "what if" options they have going forward.

    “You’ve got to think about big things while you’re doing small things, so that all the small things go in the right direction.”

    ― Alvin Toffler

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    @mark-coburn
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    tigermiger wrote:
     Sell the ppr brought with ex-fiancé ….. and should I be buying an ip and rent instead 

    Bingo! Tiger,

    Renting where you want to live and investing where the market is moving can give you the best of both worlds. We call them professional renters for good reason.

    We have a client CJ (who won't mind saying this): 28yo, self employed, single female, earning less than $90,000p.a. living in a rented apartment (that would be worth $900k) and pays $350 per week for her share. Living the good life and while saving a bit too. CJ has just bought another 2 investment properties with us in the last 2 months. One is an 2 bedroom apartment and the other is a 4 bedroom house. That brings her number of properties to 4, 3 houses and 1 apartment.

    At this point CJ will be able to buy again 18 months. All her properties are positively geared and she plans to buy 2-3 more investment properties before she buys a PPoR. She made her first investment 5 years ago and will be able to retire on over $2000p.w. by the time she is 45. Of course I think CJ is smart but her friends think she is a millionairess (all by careful saving and smart investing).

    If you delay buying your PPoR and invest first, your ability to continue buying (serviceability) is going to let you grow your wealth much, much faster. Once you take the luxury of moving into your own home, you holt your ability to save and it often takes 5-10 years before there is enough money spare to buy that next property. The outcomes are as different as black and white.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    @mark-coburn
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    For the best results, I suggest, stay north of the CBD.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    @mark-coburn
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    Why are you looking to buy there?

    What is your plan for the property?

    PPoR or an Investment? 

    New or Old?

    Do you have an overall investment strategy? 

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    +1

    They are sure moving in the wrong direction on this one.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    @mark-coburn
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    I agree with the above comments: Comparing off-the-plan apartments (on differing sites or with differing developers) is a very, very difficult task to carry out from scratch. 

    As an example of two buildings on the market now: 

    The same developer- two projects, 1200 meters apart, between the two there is a per-square-meter cost price difference of over $1250m2. Within one of the buildings, you can have a $1000 per-square-meter cost price difference between (a like) apartments on different floors, that's before you start to compare 1, 2 & 3 bedroom, 1 or 2 bathroom, car space or no car space, balcony or no balcony, north facing or south facing, single aspect or dual aspect, city views or water views etc…. 

    It just takes a lot of work to figure this all this out, in our office Dave works on this fulltime. Dave will normally get the full development documentation at least 3-4 months before the property is due to be released to the market, from there it will take a few days of number crunching to work out the best value units on the site. Currently this is a 36 item check list. Then by the time the development is released for sale we will have reserved a number of apartments.

    Therefore before we start to buy into an area, there will be over one years research clocked up, including 2, 3 or 4 on the ground inspections in the area, visiting a number of completed projects by that same developer, etc. 

    In my experience:

    Based on our clients settling between 10-20 purchases per month, providing the quality is good, we seldom have valuation issues. That said; I would never recommend any client into an off-the-plan apartment with over 80% Loan to Value Ratio debt on their portfolio, it's not worth the risk for all the reason stated by others above.

    I do however, find that clients like to "talk up" how much cash/equity they have available, so getting to the bottom of the real story is very important too.  

    There is no substitute for a proper due diligence process and maintaining conservative Loan to Value Ratios

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    @mark-coburn
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    Off the plan has it's risks, all be it small. Buying from the right developer, buying at the right time in the market cycle for that area are both key. We have a rule that if a developer is discounting on the sale price then we stay away. As soon as the sale prices are dropped or discounted for some buyers, the valuations at settlement a put under (a lot) pressure for the other buyers, that's not a good thing.

    The main point is that you are buying new, and that is a good thing for someone keen to build a high growth portfolio. The risks with NEW are manageable and mostly known vs. those of OLD which have many unknowns, and can’t be fully known prior to taking ownership.

    OLD vs. NEW? This a decision each investor needs to consider based on their own tolerance for risk and how they see the upside. 

    Pros:  

    Old Property

    • Possible to add value by renovating.

    • Lower purchase price for OLD compared to NEW of the same size, location, etc.

    New Property

    • Rent demand for NEW property is far greater. NEW is more likely to have less vacancy and usually attracts a better standard of tenant.

    • NEW is more sort-after by tenants. On a square meter by square meter comparison, NEW rents for more.

    • Depreciation credits for NEW far outweighs the price premium NEW has over OLD.

    • Low repairs and maintenance expenses and predicable for the first 10 years.

    • NEW property attracts better tenant due to the higher rent than the OLD property.

    • Lower stamp duty on NEW House & Land investments.

    Cons:

    Old Property

    • OLD has many potential unknown maintenance issues. Extensive due diligence and building reports are required prior to purchase.

    • With apartments special levies can be sprung on owners without any notice. Major repairs may have potentially been overlooked and not yet recorded at body corporate meetings. Once a special levy is called, owners have no option, but to pay the levy as directed.

    • No building depreciation (Div 43) for property built prior to 18/7/1985.

    • OLD properties rent for less, and tend to have a higher vacancy rate than NEW.

    New Property

    • 3% – 5% more expensive than an OLD comparable.

    • With apartments there can be many similar properties available for rent at the same time upon completion.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    @mark-coburn
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    Dave Ward wrote:
    Hi Paul,

    Like everything in life, its pretty easy when you know how it works. I am an excel master. You can PM me and send the sheet to me and I will fix it for you. 

    Dave is just being modest when he says he is a excel master. The real term is Excel Grand Master, we have excel sheets with single formulas Dave has built that are 6 lines long across my 27" display. One sheet is so complex, it takes our newest PC 14 minutes to calculate! 

    The main property investment model Dave has worked on over the last couple of years has over 2000 hours development time in it. We now pay a third party consultant to audit and check our modeling, just because the models are so complex and I can't find the time (days and days) to error check. 

    I am very proud to have Dave as part of the team.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    Freckle wrote:
    He definitely needs expert advice on how to structure this for the least taxes payable all round, CGT, Stamp duty etc.

    There is an excellent estate planning lawyer in Bowral, not far from Tahmoor. http://www.bertolloadvisory.com/about-us. As well as being an estate planning specialist, Denis Bertollo has financial planning qualifications, these will help when planning your property investment strategy. We are situated directly across the hall upstairs in Springett's Arcade, feel free to drop in for a coffee. 

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    Qlds007 wrote:
    KSJA based on the fact that you have no non deductible debt and based on the fact you don't need the potential interest to support your living expenses i think it is a good place to park the cash for the time being.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    I will +1 to Richard on that.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    Good service far out weighs the location.  Over the life of the relationship you will visit them once or twice, but mail them a 100 times. 

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    Resisting the bank will just tie up your capital and cost you time & money.

    In reality, you are properly better to walk away, and wait to play another day. If you buy at auction there is a good chance you will pay less. If it goes for more you haven't wasted more time and any money fighting for it. 

    That's what I would do, life is too short.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    To have the greatest chance at success in property investing, you need to buy the right 1st property. A lack of a Strategic Plan causes 74% of investors to stop at one and 93% of investors to stop at two*.         * according to the ATO

    A Buyer's Agent can help you buy the property, and a Property Investment Advisor will create a plan as well.

    Start by creating the plan around the four major steps you need carry out before you start building a property portfolio. Note: purchasing a property is the last item on the list!

    Step One: Planning

    •   Strategic Plan: Where do you want to be financially and when? (Financial Planning)

    •   Structure Plan: How are you going to hold your assets? (Financial Planning)

    •   Risk Management Plan: What are the risks and how do you plan to manage them? (Estate Law)

    •   Finance Plan: How are you going to structure your finance, what levels of debt do plan to carry, and when do you plan to start paying down the debt? (Mortgage Broker)

    Step Two: Finance

    •   Individual 1, 3, 10, 20-year cash flow analysis for each property you have on your plan

    •   Depreciation schedules for each property

    •   Portfolio Loan to Value Ratio and Individual Loan to Value Ratio Management

    •   Portfolio serviceability management

    Step Three: Property Selection

    Property research is broken up into 2 categories: statistical and fundamental.

    Searching across 15,000 suburbs in Australia, pinpoint the 5 suburbs that have the largest demand/supply imbalance. These will be areas have the best chance of increasing in value well above the national & state averages.

    Rate each suburb on a scale 1 to 500, where 250 indicates a suburb is balanced. The higher the rating the higher the probability the increased demand will put upward pressure on prices in the near term.

    Statistical Indicators

    1. Number of Days on the market – The lower the better, we also watch out for areas that are deceasing
    2. % of vendor discounting – The lower the better, less choice and less ability to negotiate.
    3. Auction Clearance Rate – The higher the better, indicating higher demand
    4. Rental Yield – The higher the better, indicating a higher demand and potential rental growth
    5. % of Stock on Market – The lower the better, more demand creates a premium in pricing
    6. Online Search Interest – The higher the better
    7. Rental Vacancy Rate – The lower the better, this % the better it is for investors
    8. Proportion of Renters to Owners – The lower the better, creates better suburb perception

    If these metrics combined give us a rating that indicates the demand is exceeding supply (market is imbalanced), then we move onto the fundamental searches to validate the statistical data.

    Fundamental Indicators

    1. Proximity to Water/Ocean/Beach
    2. Views of Water/Mountains/District
    3. Transport Infrastructure – Recently announced, in progress or to be shortly started that reduce commute times, increasing demand for a suburb
    4. The ripple effect of close suburb neighbours. If suburbs within close proximity have grown substantially recently, the chances are that the subject suburb will grow quickly in order to maintain a pricing balance between the growth suburb and the subject suburb
    5. Project Booms – Are there any large projects nearby that will create a spike in demand (Transport links, Business Parks, Urban renewal projects)
    6. Ugly Ducklings – Has the suburb been branded rough or ugly in the past and the only problem with the suburb is its reputation? Are private owners updating their properties in the area? Are developers buying up new land and building new apartments? Are businesses and trendy cafes entering the area now?
    7. Government Works – Has the government put forward a proposal to improve the appeal of an area (waterfront, parks, malls, entertainment, shopping precincts)
    8. Lifestyle Features – Are there any lifestyle amenities nearby like golf courses, large entertainment precincts, tourist attractions

    If statistical and fundamental searching reveal the suburb is a potential hotspot, we drill down to find the best streets in the suburb, and then developments within close proximity to give the best chance of the best capital gains & yeilds.

    Step Four: Purchase

    Now you are ready to buy (Planning), you know exactly what to buy (Product), and you now know where to buy (location). A well documented property investment plan lets you sleep at night knowing you have managed your risks.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    Richard, You are completely correct. +1 

    We provide clients with a Statement of Advice from a licensed financial planner when they need such advice, the same applies for Estate Planning where we have an excellent specialist estate planning lawyer who also has financial planning qualifications. PM me if you would like his details.

    We are licensed Real Estate Agents #1706946, Licensed Mortgage Brokers- Australian Credit License #412181, Licensed BAS Agents # 18566008. Our core business is Buyer's Agent and Property Investment Advisors, we keep mortgage brokering and book keeping services for existing clients only.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    Depending on the age of your building, you may find that you could be in breach of the Strata-by-laws or the council issued building approval. In most cases you are required to have and maintain a 50db noise separation between units. A lot of developers used to use carpet/soft floor coverings as part of the this 50db requirement. It is something I always check for now, having been of the wrong end of a new owner ripping up carpet and polishing their floors without strata approval. 

    BTW: finished polished concete is not low VOC

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    @mark-coburn
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    Buying an IP 1st & PPoR 2nd OR PPoR 1st & IP 2nd that is the question, the answer is over a $1,000,000 difference in your wealth.  

    Renting where you want to live and investing where the market is moving can give you the best of both worlds. They called professional renters for a good reason. We have watched the results of doing the right way time and time again. 

    We have a client CJ: 28yo, self employed, single female, earning less than $90,000p.a. living in a rented apartment (that would be worth $900k) and pays $350 per week for her share. Living the good life and while saving a bit too. CJ has just bought another 2 investment properties with us in the last 2 months. One is an 2 bedroom apartment and the other is a 4 bedroom house. That brings her number of properties to 4, 3 houses and 1 apartment.

    At this point CJ will be able to buy again 18 months. All her properties are positively geared and she plans to buy 2-3 more investment properties before she buys a PPoR. She made her first investment 5 years ago and will be able to retire on over $2000p.w. by the time she is 45. Of course I think CJ is smart, but her friends think she is a millionairess (all by careful saving and smart investing).

    If you delay buying your PPoR and invest first, your ability to continue buying (serviceability) is going to let you grow your wealth much, much faster. Once you take the luxury of moving into your own home (PPoR), you holt your ability to save and it often takes 5-10 years before there is enough money spare to buy that next property. The outcomes are as different as black and white OR well over a $1,000,000 in wealth.

    You have to start with a clear strategy and work towards that goal. This quote sums it up:

     “You’ve got to think about big things while you’re doing small things, so that all the small things go in the right direction.”
    ― Alvin Toffler

    I spend 50% of my week, working with clients to get their strategy right. When they have their strategy's in place, they tell me that they find investing far simpler with a clearer direction, as Alvin Toffler so clearly puts it.

    Modernity Investing
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    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
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    @mark-coburn
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    OLD vs. NEW? This a decision each investor needs to consider based on their own tolerance for risk and how they see the upside.

    Overview:

    Owning investment property is a business, and at the end of the day it needs to make a profit for its owner. Like running a business, the owner needs to balance managing risk vs. creating wealth. The risks with NEW are manageable and mostly known vs. those of OLD which have many unknowns, and can’t be fully known prior to taking ownership.

    Pros:

    Old Property

    • Possible to add value by renovating.

    • Lower purchase price for OLD compared to NEW of the same size, location, etc.

    New Property

    • Rent demand for NEW property is far greater. NEW is more likely to have less vacancy.

    • NEW is more sort-after by tenants. On a square meter by square meter comparison, NEW rents for more.

    • Depreciation credits for NEW far outweighs the price premium NEW has over OLD.

    • Repairs and maintenance expenses are low and predicable for the first 10 years.

    • NEW property attracts better tenant due to the higher rent than the OLD property.

    • Lower stamp duty on NEW House & Land investments.

    Cons:

    Old Property

    • OLD has many potential unknown maintenance issues. Extensive due diligence, building reports are required prior to purchase.

    • With apartments special levies can be sprung on owners without any notice. Major repairs may have potentially been overlooked and not yet recorded at body corporate meetings. Once a special levy is called, owners have no option, but to pay the levy as directed.

    • No depreciation credits for property built prior to 18 July 1985.

    • OLD properties rent for less, and tend to have a higher vacancy rate than NEW.

    New Property

    • 3% – 5% more expensive than an OLD comparable.

    • With apartments there can be many similar properties on the market for rent at the same time at completion.

    FOLLOW this link to view a comparison depreciation table between OLD & NEW.

    We create a 20 year cash flow for each IP for our clients, they can then see the "what if" options they have going forward. 

    “You’ve got to think about big things while you’re doing small things, so that all the small things go in the right direction.”

    ― Alvin Toffler

    Modernity Investing
    Email Me

    Profile photo of Modernity InvestingModernity Investing
    Participant
    @mark-coburn
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 181
    Nigel Kibel wrote:
    Not everyone who involved in the industry is a ripe off merchant but a lot are.

    Which Industry Nigel?

    There a few to select from: Real Estate Agents, Buyer's Agents, Mortgage Brokers, Banks, Valuers, Marketing Companies OR Unqualified Advisors?

    Modernity Investing
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