Hi Wobblysquare'

Not all as rosey as it seems at times. I tried to post the following info but I am having trouble so I will just repeat it here and perhaps some one will get some benefit from it.>

Michigan properties or any State for that matter  Thinking of purchasing property in the USA? I believe it is a good idea but be careful.So think about the cost of a property. A $35K property with buying fees may cost you over $6000.00 extra equating to $41,000.00 for a $35,000 property through one agent. For that amount you can likely get a better property through an agent that does not charge fees for that same amount.Think also about the cost of setting up an LLC. I paid $450. I have seen amounts up to $800 and as low as $50. So what is fair? Why the difference?Think also of the vacancy time on your new property.Some sites advise against buying an untenanted property on the open market. LISTEN TO THEM. I proceeded to purchase one such property and after paying over 6000 USD for the privilege. I was immediately forgotten for 2 weeks until I asked what was going on. I was then offered properties that had little relation to what I had told the agency that I wanted and was required to offer more than the asking price to stand a chance of being successful with a bid. I only had first option on a few properties and the rest were on a first bid submitted basis. I bid unsuccessfully on 14  properties between April and November 2011.  Some bids were not even submitted on claims that the computers were down and my emails had been missed, another was withdrawn and in the end I was placing bids on multiple properties and waiting for up to 2 weeks for advice on whether the bid had been accepted and generally that they were not.  There were a number of occasions when I had to contact the agency to see what was happening as there was a continuous lack of communication  lasting up to 2 weeks and only restored after my contact.  I was successful with a bid on a turnkey property but after reading the management agreement I passed it in as the agreement amounted to all care and no responsibility. I was astounded that any one could ever accept it. I didn’t but the agent didn’t seem to have a problem with it..  When I was finally successful with a bid on a property that required rehab the rehab did not start for 2 weeks after settlement and 2 weeks later it was ready for rent. Over this 4 week period the property was not listed for rent and it took another 6 weeks to find a tenant. One thing you aren’t told when purchasing an untenanted property is that it may take up to 3 mths (or maybe more) to find a tenant  (in the good weather) come winter I expect that it may take longer so look at the return on your investment with an untenanted property and the ongoing maintenance and management fees on that property. All of a sudden that 20% roi is heading towards –ve territory. You have outlayed the cash. The bank is happy, the agent is happy, the management company is happy as they are still charging you fees and your  cashflow is now in the –ve territory. Prior to finding a tenant my property has cost me over 46000 USD. I have just sent another $1500.00 across as there is still no cashflow and there are ongoing costs associated with holding the property . I could have purchased a comparable or better refurbished and tenanted property for less than that with no vacancy and instant cashflow and a lot less stress.Section 8 vs private tenants? I own a number of investment properties in Australia and from experience there are house proud people on low incomes and there are pigs on higher incomes so it is really a matter of the agent vetting the applicant effectively so I don’t see a problem with Section 8 any more than private especially considering the consequences of a Section 8 tenant losing the privilege if they do not perform to standards. The bottom line is only buy tenanted properties (turnkey) from agents that do not charge fees. There are a few; Property 4 Peanuts, Detroit Wealth and US prime that I am aware of (check them out). Management agencies charge up to four weeks rent to place  a tenant so consider vacancies after the end of the initial tenancy and how long it will take to get a new tenant. I found a website that claims ‘the city of Detroit has a waiting list of more than 9200 pre approved families with Housing Choice Vouchers (HCV) who are currently in unsuitable emergency or temporary accommodation, some simply cannot find a suitable home’. The property manager I am with was proud that they had obtained a tenant after ‘only’ 42 days.  As I was concerned at the prolonged vacancy I spoke with another agency, Metro Detroit Rental Experts and they claimed to be able to provide a tenant in 1-2 weeks so it is a matter of either having an active property manager or one who just lists the property and sits back and waits.I had considerable correspondence with one of the directors of Detroit Wealth (Mark Ijlal) and Metro Detroit Rental Experts (Chris Shaw) (both dealing with international investors) and I have reproduced some of their responses to my situation much of which was volunteered and not solicited. I have not used the services of either organisation but I would seriously consider it in the future based on their advice with no pressure for business. Please read the next blog titled ‘Unsolicited advice from local Detroit agencies’ for some really good advice from Mark and Chris which I feel reinforces what I have attempted to relay here. Good luck with your investing.In summary my $33,000.00 property has cost me in excess of $48,000.00 and all indications are that I am fortunate to have a tenant.Should you want any further information you can contact me personally on email: g’[email protected].   Unsolicited advice from local Detroit agenciesThe content of this blog is a follow on from  ‘Michigan properties or any State for that matter’ and consists of  that provided to me during correspondence with Detroit Wealth and  Metro Detroit Rental Experts and relates to all the questions and experiences I had during my foray into the US property market. There are a lot of people getting less than favourable service and I believe that their advice is invaluable.The content of the advice conflicts with a lot of the advice you may find on various websites. The strongest advice I can give is to NOT buy untenanted properties on the open market.Detroit Wealth advice: never buy a property unless it already has a tenant inside OR if there is no way of doing it then make it a part of your contract that their fee (case in point over $6000 fee) is not getting to them till the property is closed, rehabbed and tenanted. Once people get paid, their motivation level drop to zero. Sad but true. They are on to the next sale instead of sitting and making sure that the property is delivered per promised: repaired and tenanted. I hear this every single day and actually have heard that story for 11 years now since I have been investing in Detroit foreclosures. That is why when I started Detroit Wealth – I decided that I will not sell, even though I have to sit on these properties for may be one more month than needed, any property which does not have a tenant in. We have 7 properties coming out of repairs in the next week. Every single one of them tenanted. The 2 I did last week on Piedmont and Coyle – both tenanted already and I have not even sold Coyle yet but the tenant is already in at $900 per month. To me personally, it is just so cool to be able to talk to an investor who is not here physically and know that they will have no surprises after they buy, that it is all done and done right. Very old school thinking but I am an old guy and it seems to work for me.I paid $450.00 for an LLC I have seen amounts up to $800 on some sites Response: $450 for forming the LLC is a complete joke. It cost $50 to form an LLC and it takes around 3 minutes to do so so making $400 from a client that you are selling a property and making money on that is just unbelievable. I know companies who are charging $700 to setup a Michigan LLC. We form LLC's for all our our clients in Michigan and they just pay State of Michigan fees which is $50.   Do not buy South of 8 Mile Rd Response:  Warren, Grosse Pointe, Eastpointe, Harperwoods, Oak Park, Redford, Southfield and many more smaller cities circle the city of Detroit. You could be driving on 8 Mile Road and on one side of the road is Grosse Pointe and the other side of the road is Detroit. Same with Warren. Detroit is a very big city and like all big cities it has good areas where families want to live and less than desirable areas where nothing is going on for many many years. All of our properties are on West Side of Detroit. Why? First our office is in West Side of Detroit so we can keep a close eye on our client's portfolio and our tenants like the idea that their property management company is right around the corner. Second, Darrick is a third generation Detroitter (I moved here 16 years ago but grew up in Pakistan and lived there for 25 years) and he knows the City of Detroit in and out as his granfather and his dad both lived and raised families in Detroit. I choose to buy properties in good areas in Detroit because I don’t outsource property management. Darrick owns Metro Detroit Rental Experts 100% and I have no stake in it but he is my partner in Detroit Wealth and we always thought that if somebody were to trust us enough to send us money from thousands of miles away then we have to repay that trust back and keep the management business and do it in house so we can make sure that these properties are being managed the right way. Trust me it is a pennies business. There are no dollars in it. 10% of rent collected is $85 per property but we need an office, staff to answer phones, internet advertising, tenant placement specialists to go out and rent these properties out – it is pain in the rear end business but something that we feel is the most important part of our business and hence we keep it in house and trust our own people to do it.    
 If you need help in finding a tenant for your current Detroit property – let me know. We get 30 to 40 leads per day for both Section 8 and non-Section 8 tenants and Darrick's company Metro Detroit Rental Experts (http://www.MetroDetroitRentalExperts) does tenant placement for many property investing companies both in USA and from overseas. No point in keeping a good property empty when so many families in Detroit are looking for good affordable housing.  Some providers are claiming costs to set up a bank account which I had difficulty with and even HSBC in Australia doesn't make it easy to open a US bank account. What does it cost and how difficult is it to set up a bank account for a  non resident? Response: There is no cost to setup a bank account in US. Setting up a bank account is a pain in the rear end. I agree on that completely. If you visit US – than it is easy. Otherwise hard. But getting an ITIN number just requires filling out W7 form and mailing it to IRS along with a copy of your passport OR you can ask for the ITIN number when you file your first tax return in US. The IRS needs a 'reason' to give out a ITIN and ownerhip of USA property qualifies as a legitimate reason. Either way no cost unless you want to hire a company to fill out a W7 form for you which is really an easy form to do.  Professional/buying fees As far as hidden fees as concerned – I have never liked it when a business charges me those. So I dont do it either. Whatever it is – it is right here in black and white. Bluntness is not the best marketing strategy but it seems to work for me.   Let me know if you want to connect you with my tenant placement team. They charge first month rent as tenant placement fee and then 10% every month of the collected rent. Pretty customary fees but they do have 6 full time tenant placement specialists who do nothing all day but show prospective tenants properties all around Detroit.   I hope these responses help you with your decision to invest. There are issues here that don’t appear to have been raised on other blogs.