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  • Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    If the $28k Personal Loan was used for investment with the Family, wouldn't it be a tax deductible loan?
    In the event that it isn't, I would be hacking away at that loan as hard as possible as the longer the Loan exists, the more (bad) interest you will be forced to pay – wasted money.
    Put the $8k in the Personal Loan in my view.
    There is an argument that if you compare the interest saving from paying the $8k into the Loan to what the return might be if you invested it elsewhere, you might do better to invest it elsewhere, but even if you were to get a better return elsewhere, you still have the loan interest which diminishes the return, and the key word is MIGHT get a better return.
    At least if you pay down the loan with the $8k, you KNOW you will definitely save some interest. 

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    James,
    Don't get him (Foundation) started on the data and stats! He IS the king.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Apart from the obvious nightmares that go with building a house from scratch, there is no rule that says it will be a bad investment. Building a house can be a stressful time.
    The depreciation on a new building is excellent, so the tax returns will be good from that respect and this is one of the more overlooked aspects of property investing. If you build at the right price and can achieve a decent rent return, you can end up with a pos cashflow property after tax – tax free profit and the property costs you nothing.
    Also, as far as I know, and I will stand corrected if wrong, the PURPOSE of the finance for the Land AND the Building is investment, therefore you can claim the holding costs from day one, even though there is no tenant in the property. Check with an accountant on that one. You would want the house to be built and a tenant put in within the same financial year I think.
    Try to buy a block of land that will allow you to build multiple buildings on it (2 or more).
    The only other problem I can see with building from scratch is the end cost of the new property may be too high for the equivalent existing homes in the area, so you may struggle to get a good valuation on it, and may not get that good a rent return either.
    For example; you spend $300k on your new place, but the existing, but newer homes similar to yours are going for about $250k. You are over-capitalised a bit, and after 1 year it is just like all the other established newer homes around, so may in fact drop in value to what the established ones are worth. Run the numbers carefully and know the values in the area very well.
    Personally, if it's your first investment; you may be better to buy an established, newer (less than 10 years old) property to get the right value, maximise the depreciation/tax advantages and you can still add value to increase the equity faster.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    To buy a good, profitable and well priced business requires good knowledge of businesses to start with. If you have never run a business, or have never bought one, then you must deal with or through a suitable accountant.
    Any business you find for sale can be scrutinised by your accountant. He/she can evaluate the figures presented, assess the viability of the business and recommend a buy price, or tell you to walk away etc.
    This could be very important to protect you from being ripped off; especially if you are putting you home equity on the line.
    Buying businesses carries different LVR's to properties; you may have to put in more deposit than you are used to with property; the accountant and/or Mortgage Broker will be helpful to set up your finance and loans for this purpose.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    A few things to consider:
    To me, selling the I.P now, especially if you can get another $50 p/w rent, is killing the cashcow . This extra $50 (less management fees) would be useful towards either paying off more of your PPoR mortgage, more into your super, or more off the I.P loan. In my opinion the most expensive money you have right now would be your PPoR loan – it's not tax deductible.
    Superannuation, in my opinion, is for the uneducated investors and those who are not doing anything at all towards their future retirement/wealth. It is linked heavily to the stock market, and can therefore suffer great returns and great losses. I wouldn't want to bank my retirement money on a possible super pay-out sometime in the future. Is anyone guaranteeing your return on your super money? I didn't think so. I would rather have total control over my money and use my knowledge to invest into good, safe property with a good return.
    If you sell the I.P now you will have to pay a good deal of Cap Gains Tax on the profit, and you will lose out on the nice tax deductions that come with I.P's, and any future cap growth and rent increases from it.
     You will still have the PPoR, without the tax deductions, still with the loan, and no income from it in later years. There are many stories of older people who own their own million dollar homes, but can't afford to maintain them, or suffer a lifestyle change because of the costs of the upkeep on the house – rates, maintenance insurance etc.
    In a nutshell; you are both on good incomes, have several years left before retiring and already have some good assets in your 2 properties as well as the super-annuation.
    I would be looking at a plan to keep acquiring more property, keep going with the super (but don't go mad with it in my opinion), and maybe look at directing some investing dollars into shares if you wish. I think shares are in a similar basket to the super and managed funds – therefore tread very carefully in that area.
    When you hit retirement you can always sell off some of the properties and retire the debt on the I.P's and the PPoR. By the time you retire the properties (if well selected) will have increased significantly in value and you should be able to be debt free with an on-going passive income (rent).

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Hey crashy,
    agent stories…don't get me started.
    Actually, I did remember one good one; the second PPoR I owned was sold by auction through Hocking Stuart of Blackburn (Melb). I interviewed 4 agents, the young agent we decided to go with was very enthusiastic, professional (painfully so actually) and organised. He kept us informed – good and bad, gave us a price range quote, and the property sold for exactly the centre of the range at the auction. A good experience.
    I could tell a few bad stories too, but I've been slagging the agents pretty hard all year – time to give someone else a go.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    I think everyone on this forum is doing/has done it the way you are; going without, saving hard and planning for wealth creation.
    The rest are all signing up for another store card or a new plasma (or both).
    As an "old" bloke of 46, I can say that I've been there and done that (not the mines – the "going without" part), and I didn't start until a fair bit later than you. I saw a lot of weekly pay go down the toilet (literally), but made up for lost time thankfully.
    If you are going out to the mines good on you, and well done for starting down the right path so young.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    There is another consideration for these types of investments;
    you have one of many units which are virtually the same in a very big complex. Many are bought by investors, so there is stiff competition for renters and/or buyers if you decide to sell. There are also high management/maintenance fees as well with these places generally.
    The cap growth prospects may be good though, but this is an un-known, so do plenty of research on the area/rental vacancies and returns, outgoings, re-sale prices etc.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    There are two schools of thought on that:

    1. sell the property and take the cash profit and use this as deposits on more properties, thus minimising the debt. This improves the LVR (Loan to Value Ratio) and the cashflow, but the R.O.T (rate of return) drops with more cash used. The good news is that the more cash is used, the better the chances of finding a positively geared property.
    2. access the increasing equity to do same as above. no cash is needed in this option.

    The problem with option 1. is when selling the property there are selling costs and CGT, which eat up a good chunk of your profit and then there is the trauma involved with selling the property.
    The problem with option 2. is you can only access a certain percentage of the equity and because there is no cash involved, the rent return may not cover the interest payments on the higher amount of borrowed funds. The good news is you can keep acquiring properties with little or no cash and increase the portfolio and widen the base of wealth, and your R.O.T can be very high.

    My personal view is if you can obtain properties that are CFP (this is more difficult to do in the current climate but can be done) then it is better to go with option 2. Buy and never sell is my philosophy.

    The problem with creating equity with capital improvements alone is you need to be very careful about costs, time and the state of the market. Many people try to do this and end up only adding the same amount of value to the property as the cost of the improvements.
    A well selected property in an area with good cap growth prospects will increase in value anyway.

    If you manage your debt well and don't get too over-exposed with high LVR's, having more debt is not an issue, as all the other factors are contributing; rent, cap growth, tax deductions etc.; you simply add more zeros.

    For example, if you have one property worth $200k with an annual 8% cap growth rate, and 7% rent return, on 7.5% loan interest,  LVR of , say, 60% then there is no difference between that and if you had 10 properties all the same and it is a fairly safe position of debt relevent to equity.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Yes, if you are in a position to buy and can buy below market then do it.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Hi IslandGirl,

    I've read all Margaret's books and have been a Destiny client for over 3 years. My investing is only done her way these days and it has worked well.
    I can't remember her ever slagging anyone off; she does always give you the heads up on the different strategies, dangers, benefits etc around.
    She is nothing but professional and has lots of integrity. She has even won Australian Business Woman of The Year.
    Her method is safe, sure, long-term investing. She doesn't sugar-coat or beat up her philospophy, hence it may come across as uninspiring.
    I found it the opposite; here was a way to get rich safely and securely and with no hit to my hip pocket.

    That inspired me.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    I agree; the problem with a lot of these companies that source properties is they find you one, but it may be in a place where getting tenants if one leaves may be very difficult, few or no local property managers etc.
    Do your own due diligence and do a thorough search on the areas they select for you before hand.
    This always makes me think that if I am going to do the research on areas of the properties they recommend, then why would I pay them to do it and still get a dud?
    May as well save the dollars and do the work yourself. That way you really know what you are buying.
    I remember seeing a place for sale once on r/e.com.au in a remote area. It was cfp, but when I dug deeper I found there were lots of tenant problems, no local management and high vacancy rates.
    I saw the same property advertised for sale in Australian Property Investor Magazine in an ad for a website for cfp properties about 4 months later, at the same price, but with a $5k finder's fee attached. OOPS!

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    I've been a Destiny client for about 3.5 years now (in Melb). I cannot recommend them highly enough. They can be as hands on or off as you like and will hold your hand as you go if you need that.
    I am on the phone regularly with my guy in Melb simply to discuss the future and strategies, and even have him analyse the deals I find at times.
    They even have focus groups every second week or so with like-minded investors who are also clients usually.
    The property tracking software is absolutely brilliant and the on-line support and over-all network they provide is worth every cent.
    The property investment plan costs around $350 or so from memory, and you don't need to sign up as a client to have it done. This involves a finacial analysis and 10 year plan.
    They are specialists in property and won't try to flog you a managed fund etc.
    They also do mortgage broking. Give them a call; the first consultation is free and no obligation.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    First of all, you would do better financially to keep on renting and use the new PPoR as an I.P forever!
    But of course, you don't want to do that, so to answer these questions;
    1. You only pay CGT on the period you use the PPoR as an I.P, if they move out within a year you can then give 1 months notice where you are and move into the new place.
    2. Just charge them the market rent; you don't want to piss them off and create a disgruntled tenant from day one. It could cost you more in the long run. Any of the local agents can tell you what rent you should be charging.
    3. Yes, you can depreciate cap improvements, and you can also depreciate the building and fixtures if it was built after 1987, but these numbers get added back onto the cap gain at sale time and will increase your CGT. Not a big deal in my opinion; especially if you keep the house for a very long time, rent it out for a short time, and become wealthy through investing. Minor detail.
    4. Unless you live close by, know the tenants VERY well, and are really strapped for cashflow; never self manage. The cost is minimal, tax deductible, and frees up your time and relieves you of stress – it's worth every cent if the Manager is a good one.
    5. It is mostly a benefit to do this, unless the tenants cause problems. Make sure you take out Landlord's Insurance as well – $200 per year approx and tax deductible.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    There was a case in the courts a couple of years ago between the ATO and a guy who capitalised the interest on his investment loan while paying down the PPoR loan.
    I think the ATO denied his tax claim, he sued the ATO and it went to court. Correct me if I'm wrong if someone can remember this case.
    The ATO lost the case for the time being, but the message was that it may not be a rule in the future, so it may not be a good idea to take the risk.
    Besides; I think it's a bit "robbing Peter to pay Paul" anyway – you are making a bigger loss through the increased neg gearing which would cancel out a lot  or some of the gain you make in decreasing the PPoR loan.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    But if you never sell the house you never have to pay any CGT.
    Better to utilise the tax benefits and depreciation to improve the cashflow, pay down the debt with it, increase the equity and use the equity to fund more of same in my opinion.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Speak to your accountant.
    Is the property in your name, a company name, etc – these things affect the outcome.
    The sale of any income producing invetment that increases in value is subject to CGT.
    If it is your sole source of income, any profit from the cashflow will be taxable as well.
    The good news is that if you don't earn much income from the rent after expenses and your tax rate is very low then you won't have a lot of CGT tax to pay most likely.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    I will have a stab at this, but please remember I'm no accountant and I am suggesting possible scenarios.
    1. If your Auntie does not earn any income in Australia, she cannot claim any tax deductions from the I.P. However, I think it may be retrospective; which means that if she returns to Aus within a certain time, the years she was absent from Aus and not able to claim any tax deductions may be claimable for a certain amount of time into the past. (we are in this position ourselves and hoping to use the retrospective clause when we return to Aus next year).
    2. If she arranges finance for the I.P in Singapore, and then transfers the rent across to Singapore she may be able to claim tax deductions on her income in Singapore if their Govt/Tax Office have those rules in place, but you also have exchange rates and tax laws between the two countries to factor in – she may have to pay tax on the rent in Aus first and then do the accounting on the rent when it arrives back in Singapore. It could get very messy and may not be financially viable for her. The other problem might be obtaining finance from a Singapore based lender on a property based in Aus.
    2. Even though your name is on the title, you cannot claim any tax deductions for the loan interest as your name is not on the loan. You can, however, claim tax deductions from the other expenses associated with the holding costs of the property, including the depreciation. This would be split between your Auntie and yourself.
    The depreciation is worked out on the cost of the BUILDING and the FIXTURES/FITTINGS only – not the entire purchase price. You will need to engage the services of a Quantity Surveyor to produce a depreciation schedule for your accountant.
    3. On the flip side; you can also take half of the rent if that is your agreement with your Auntie (or whatever percentage you decide upon in the Contract), but you will be liable for tax on the rent if the rent is more than the tax deductible expenses you can claim.

    It may be better for you to both be on the loan somehow, but this may be hard to set up if you are in Aus and she is in Singapore.
    Or maybe she can be a guarantor on the loan for you over here, she puts in part of the funds as a deposit, both names go on the title and she retains rights to a percentage of the cap gain (if any, and to be decided by both of you in the Contract) when and if you sell.
    An MB may be able to clarify what you can do on that one.
    Sounds very messy to me.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    I am no accountant, and you will need to speak to one about this, but I'm fairly sure you cannot rent the t'house to yourself.
    If you have a company, you may be able to buy the t'house in your name and then rent it to your company, but as I said; talk to the accountant.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    My belief is that no matter what the purpose of the loan is for; investment or personal; if you have excess funds available to pay down the debt then do it. It will improve your equity and cashflow.
    Of course, it is good to still be able to have access to the funds again in the vent of an emergency, or to re-use for more investing, so the type of loan you have is important.
    Buying a PPoR is what everyone wants to do, but as you know, the interest on the loan for a PPoR is non-tax deductible.
    If you can stand to live with the M-I-L for a while longer, it would be better to select a house that you may like to use as your PPoR in the future, but use it as an I.P for now, thus getting some more lovely tax deductions from the interest as you go.
    I've had 4 PPoR's now; they come and go, so don't get too hung up on it being forever.

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