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  • Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    There is a thread about this from a month or so ago on this site. You can do a search on "Destiny Financial Services" and they should appear.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    There is also the fixture and fittings of the building, such as dishwasher, carpet, kitchen cupboards etc.
    These all have different depreciation "lives".

    For example; I think carpet has a "life" of 5 years, so the cost of the carpet is depreciated at 20% per year over the 5 years and so on.

    Then there is a "pool" where a number of the items which are low cost, such as a kitchen flickmixer are all pooled together to make one amount and then depreciated.

    As Terry said; contact a Quantity Surveyor who can do a Depreciation Schedule for you. The cost is around $500, is tax deductible and will pay for itself in the first financial year.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    It's a tough one; they won't want to get rid of the pet that's for sure, and you normally can't change the lease mid-term.

    Personally, I think pets are o.k, but charge a premium for them to cover damage such as urine, smell etc. In many cases the doggy smell etc in the carpet means new carpet

    You will have to get the PM to tell them they are in breach of the lease contract first, but with a suggestion that if they want to keep the pet, then they will need to pay more rent to cover it, and there will need to be a new lease put in place to cover the pet in the property.

    Then suggest that if everyone (you and the Tenant) agrees, you will set up a brand new lease which includes the pet and with a higher rent.

    The P.M can set up a new lease easily with the new conditions written in. over here in the US, it's not uncommon for pets to cost an extra $150-$200 per month. Depends on how much rent your tenant is paying of course, but you may suggest an extra $50 per month.

    This way, everyone wins.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Dean;

    First of all; you need to get a tan, buddy!

    Second, after you move out, I'll come and stay for a month free to help you get sorted out.

    But seriously –  you are in a very good position and it was very lucky for you to have met that lady when you did.

    I don't have a clue what a Euro is worth in Aus or US dollars, so I will call it a "dollar".
     
    Based on what you've posted, the rent return of $2,500; assuming you can get it, is a very good return against the MORTGAGE of $140,000.

    It works out to be;

    $2,500 x 12 = $30,000 per year. (based on a permanent rental).

    You still owe $140,000.

    Divide $30,000 by $140,000, and then multiply by 100 = 21.42% This is an excellent rent return. Depending on the holding costs, and the loan interest rate, this is a positive cashflow amount. This means you get money left over AFTER all the holding costs and the loan are taken out. Probably enough to travel the world (maybe kick in some cash of your own as well) without selling.

    On top of this, you will have $30k by early '08. Using the $30k on its own as a deposit will not allow you to buy a lot of property, unless you borrow more from the Bank, which may incur Loan Mortgage Insurance (avoid if possible).

    In my opinion, this house is a fabulous asset, and you should not sell, so based on that, you would go with OPTION 4, but with a twist. I think a permanent rental is more reliable income; you may get a higher monthly rate with holiday rentals, but there are usually higher vacancy rates and the fees for cleaning etc are higher.

    Here are my thoughts;

    Without going into lots of detail to explain, let me say that the $30k will be far better used by paying it into your Mortgage and decreasing the amount owing. The less you owe, the less interest you will pay long term, and the more positive cashflow you will have for you to spend (in my opinion it should be re-invested back into the asset).

    You then use this $30k along with the rest of your "equity" for more investing later on.

    There are 2 ways to do it, and it depends on how your loan is structured and what your plans are for the house. As I said; I think you should NOT sell, so we'll assume that for this example;
    1. Structure your loan so you have an "offset account" with either a "line of credit" (LOC) or a "redraw"  as well that you can use for more investing.
    In this scenario, the $30k is put into the offset account. The offset allows you to redraw the $30k if you need it at any time, but while it is sitting in the offset, it is reducing the interest you need to pay on your mortgage each month. The LOC is basically credit which is made available through the "equity" in your house – how much of it you actually own after you discount what you owe from the VALUE of the house. For this purpose you would need to have the house revalued by the Bank.
    2. Pay the $30k into the mortgage, then structure your loan so you have a "line of credit" that you can use for more investing. You can still redraw the money if you need it, but you need a separate sub-account to separate the personal use and the investment use.

    The LOC or redraw allows you to access some of the equity in your house (80% of the VALUE is the usual amount you can access), which is used to pay the deposits and purchase costs of another (or more) properties. Normally you would need a deposit of around 20%; anything less and you would have to pay Loan Mortgage Insurance (avoid if possible). The Bank funds the rest (80%).

    What I have put forward here is a bit basic, and you really need to get together with a property investment savvy Mortgage Broker to set up the right loan structure.

    But basically; do not sell; rent it out and go travel. You have a lot of equity which you can use for more investing when you are ready, without having to sell to access the money.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    If you need to sell it to finance the new purchase, and can't face the thought of a make-over, you could;
    a) hire tradesmen to do it for you and supervise the project.
    b) sell it as is for whatever it will fetch and walk away.

    My immediate thought was that you could turn it into an I.P and have it managed. Wipe your hands to a degree. The Property Manager looks after all the problems for you pretty much.

    You can still access the equity in it to finance the new purchase as well, but keep in mind tha the finance will be used for your new PPoR, and therefore the interest is not tax deductible.

    At least you would have the rent offsetting the loan payments on the new PPoR, and you will have 2 properties going up in value over time.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Retiredone wrote:

    Has anyone got investments in Moree? Is 12% return for the Moree area a good return (this is a block of 8 villas for sale)?

    I have spoken to the agent there and he said it wasn't in the worst part of town, but it wasn't in the best part of town either. The villas are half empty but that is because the owner hasn't put any time or money into maintaining thoes villas.

    Anyone have any thoughts?

    The owner may have got tired of fixing things and then having them broken again soon after.

    Also, being a block of 8, it will be considered a commercial property by the Banks, and will require a bigger deposit from you, as they usually lend on a lower LVR for commercial.

    I think in towns like this, you would want to look only at the best part of town.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    There are two other ways you can have cash in reserve, and minimise your expenses and maximise your returns on the investments your parents left you:

    1. Structure the existing loans so that you have the $600k in an offset account against the loans. The offset means you have the cash available to use if you want, but while it is in the offset it will minise the interest still owing on the loans.

    2.Structure the existing loans so you can pay all the $600k into the existing loans, but with a re-draw or line of credit which allows you to access the money if needed. The $600k will dramatically decrease your interest payments and inprove your cashflow.

    Talking to a property savvy Mortgage Broker (there are a few on this forum who can help) is the thing to do.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Thanks for all that!

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    If your loan is set up as an interest only loan with the ability to pay off pricipal as you want (most are) then you only pay interest on what you still owe of the principal.

    So, the answer to both questions is;
    1. you pay interest on $105k,
    2. yes.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    So how can they still keep posting?

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    If your property is negatively geared, which means that your rent doesn't cover all the expenses related to the property, then there is no tax to be paid, and in fact you should get a tax refund againsyt your personal income tax.

    Your accountant will work out the tax owing for you.

    Have you had a Depreciation Schedule prepared for the property? This will give you deprecitaion deductions as well, which can increase your tax return quite a lot.

    Discuss this with the accountant as well.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    I had a quick look at that site Andrew, and of course; you can't use it unless you subscribe, but It seems to have all the info you will need. Certainly better than nothing at all, and way cheaper than your account by the looks of it.

    You will still need him (or another one) to do your tax returns though.

    Another thing to do is read all of Margaret Lomas' books; there are 5 now and they are all fantastic.

    The best thing though is there is tons of nuts and bolts stuff in her books, as well as (in the last book from memory) there is a quick-calculator for some of the different property types such as 2 bed inuts or houses, 3 bedders etc.

    Her website is;
    http://www.edestiny.com.au/

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Tysonboss1 wrote:
    shane.barry28876 wrote:
    I think oil has been over rated lately – wind power is the way!

    Wind will be a valuable part of the energy mix,…. But will never provide large scale base load power,

    Our best bet for this is Geothermal and Clean coal and possibly nuclear,….. But I think if there is going to be the predicted massive growth in Nuclear power we will probaly find the the Uranium indusrty will increase 10 fold and will peak rapidly also,

    I think he's talking about a different kind of wind,  based on his last lot of posts

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    If the areas you are looking at have gone up by 20% recently, then either they are booming now or have almost run out of steam.

    It's your call, but you might want to look at other areas that haven't boomed and are showing good signs that they might.

    The strategy that you are wanting to do can work in virtually any suburb, so don't limit your view.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Well, guess the news Richard;
    He's at it again.
    The block didn't work.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    bicky wrote:
    hi  LA Aussie,
    to your reply back on april 19 -2007
    if you borrow $139k (for a $150k property)  @ 7.5% interest.
    how do you get  $10 per week positive cash flow, after tax, with rent at $170 per week.?
    considering a building depreciation claim (off set) of $3750.
    have you included holding costs and have i understood the depreciation claim right or not?
    i have some experience, but very much still learning, just trying to learn more.
    thanks
    bicky.

    Hi Bicky,

    In the model I posted, I was actually being a bit general and used a bit of quick mental arithmetic for some of it. There was no figure for depreciation, and I can't remember what figure I used (probably guessed), and it's difficult to work out exactly as the fixtures and fittings have different depreciation "lives" than the building anyway, so let's use this; the building, fixtures and fittings cost $100k in total, so the first year is 2.5% of this @ 30% tax margin gives approx $14 p/week approx.

    Keep in mind that this is simplistic. In reality, the income (rent) is added to personal income to create a new taxable income, then the expenses and depreciation are applied to that figure to give a new taxable income and the difference in the original taxable income's and the new taxable income's tax amounts is the tax return.

    So, the numbers would be;

    interest = $200 p/w
    rent =   $170 p/w
    depreciation  = $14 p/w

    I always allow for 20% of the rent to be used for holding costs such as insurance, maintenance, management, rates, and even 4 weeks vacancy. This has never actually occured for me, but you never know. The figure is probably closer to 15%, or even less with some properties.

    So, nett rent is $136 p/week.
    Then there are the tax deductions applied to the holding costs. If we take out 4 weeks vacancy as a cost and round the expenses to 15% of rent, which is $25.50 p/week approx. This gives us $1,326 p/year @ 30% =   $8 p/week in deductions there. 

                                   Interest   =  $200      
                      minus nett rent  =  $136      = -$64 p/w   cashflow

    Now, add back the depreciation, the holding cost and interest deductions.

                                       cashflow                =  -$64 p/w
                   + interest deduction                =    $60 p/w        (-$4 p/w)
                   + depreciation                          =    $14 p/w        (+$10 p/w)
                   + holding cost deductions     =    $  8 p/w         (+$18 p/w) cashflow p/w.

    Allowing for a few variations in how the taxable incomes are worked out by the accountant, I would guess that the property was pos cashflowed by the above amount, but let's say $10.

    I always like to under-estimate income and over-estimate expenses.

    There may be an accountant on the forum who can correct this if it is drastically wrong, but I think it is close enough.

    But for me; if the cashflow is somewhere between -$10 p/w and +$10 p/w I don't care. It's good enough and I would buy the property if the cap growth prospects looked good for the area.

    It's one shout at the bar (not even; with my drunken mates).

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    The upside is that in a rising market you may be able to onsell the property before settlement and make a profit without outlaying too much money.

    This is one of the sales pitches used by these companies, and they make it sound very good.

    But keep your eyes open;
    what if the market doesn't keep going up?
    Will you be able to onsell the property before settlement?
    If the market stays flat, or worse; goes backwards before settlement and you can't onsell the property for a profit, or at all – will you be able to arrange finance to settle on the property?

    TheGovt levy on developers may or may not do anything; in my opinion the developers will try to pocket the discount, and if by some miracle it gets passed onto home buyers, this will simply fuel a new demand as there will be people entering the market who were previously priced out. This will cause a new price rise probably.

    Do your research on the markets and find out if the likelihood of the prices continuing to rise is there.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    You can access up to around 90% of the value of the property which is $207,000, minus any outstanding loans ($115k).
    So, you could theoretically access $92k; depending on loan serviceability.

    However, in view of your current financial position, you wouldn't want to buy anything negatively geared just now.

    maybe an established and profitable business, or high yield shares etc that are positive cashflowed to offset the negative of the I.P.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    At the end of the day the tenant qualifying process is pretty much a waste of time.

    Here's proof;

    Property 1, tenant 1; Brand new townhouse, rent – $350 per week in a blue-chip suburb.
    Single, middle-aged nurse with 2 almost teenage boys in a townhouse complex of 4. Good income, past tenant history supplied; good payer. Tenancy database check is clear.
    Moved in, immediately starts to put other residents offside by parking in front of other garages (hers is full of crap now). Won't move car, argumentative with other residents, kids and kid's friends leave bikes in driveway, excessive noise etc, etc.
    Body corp is established by us owners to control these sorts of incidents (her). Still no compliance by my tenant.
    I decide to sell townhouse, she won't allow inspections unless she is present. Never available. We end up allowing her to break lease and move out.

    Property 2, tenant 1; older 2 bed unit, rent $165 per week.
    Young couple, no rental history. Both have employer verification and references. Good income. Allow druggy friend to move in with them unknown, place is trashed and tenants do runner. 

    Property 2, tenant 2;
    Older pensioner couple. No rental history, only pension for income.
    Exemplary tenants for 3 years; no problems, excellent payers.

    Property 3, tenant 1; older unit, rent $210 per week.
    Young couple; no rental history. Self employed so no employer references or income proof.
    No problems, good payers since day 1. Still there (5 years later).

    Property 3, tenant 1; newer unit, rent $180 per week.
    Single, 30 year old mining worker. No rental history – new to the area. Good income.
    Exemplary tenant for 2 years, good payer, kept property in good condition.

    So, I have had the high earner professional mum in the schmick townhouse who was a disaster, and the dodgy single guy who might party hard after a tough week in the mines who was a champ. Go figure.

    My view; give 'em all a go and take their money. Let 'em have pets too. Just charge more rent to cover the possible damage from the pets.

    If they are no good get rid of them and get another one. Most people are good by the way.

    You can't judge books by the cover I've found.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    nvme8 wrote:
    Thanks Stumunro & L.A Aussie,

    The information you posted helps me to join the dots but I still have 1 question remaining.

    Tax deductions on redrawn interest. . . If I decide to draw down 50k from one of my IP's equity, can I still get a tax deduction on the additional interest that is attracted? If not my positive cash flow position could be turned negative very quickly and in extreme cases I could get stuck in a downward spiral of redrawing to supplement an ever increasing negative cash flow issue. This could end up with me having to sell all IP's and walk away with almost nothing.

    Any opinions?

    The interest on the draw downs is NOT tax deductible for personal use. If they are used for further investing then they can be tax deductible.

    You would need to have the loans set up in a way that allows personal draw downs while retaining the separate loan/s for the I.P portfolio to keep the records for tax purposes separate.

    This strategy only works when the draw downs aren't affecting the cashflow in any significant fashion. You can still go 'backwards' in equity doing this, as long as there is plenty of room to go backwards, but I don't think this is the purpose of the exercise.

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