hehe ) The kind of forward planning and projection you’ve done is absolutely the thing that will save you from making a wrong decision. It’s such good thinking about how the rental guarantee will stall you from future sale. Having said that… rents (without rental guarantee) don’t *always* go up on our IP’s anyway. I’m thinking (I’ve mentoned this elsewhere so sorry to forum members for being repetitive, if they remember reading this before), that a suburb called Indooroopilly, a decent suburb outside of Brisbane, had vey good CG, but its median rent reduced about $20 per week over the last year. So even organically, rents can drop. In some ways then, the rental guarantee can assist… if rents might have dropped for other apartments, yours *can’t* drop.
Maybe our thinking of rent always rising (I think I’ve had this belief too, really) is as erroneous as an opinion that property always rises in value. Dunno, just a thought
But you *probably* did the right thing, Lisa [happy3]
Thanks so much! As Simon said, it’s a hugely valuable reply and indeed will be useful to others- and very much useful to me ) I’m really grateful to you.
Ya know, I’ve just had this idea of “the one big deal”… that instead of going for the 10%, 20%, 30% CG here and there… that if one did “one big deal”, that it could fix it all up, pay off the debts, and be on easy street to do further deals down the line.
Lisa, I really like your profile, too- I hope you “multiply by contribution” about your own experiences, so that we can learn from you (3 posts from you just ain’t enough!) [cap]
Would the rent be equivalent if it became residential use instead of having your current tenant? I ask this because if the tenant’s business fails or there’s some other contingency, and it results in a protracted legal battle… you may end up with a mere IP, rather than what is near to a CF+ commercial property.
How many rooms is the house? Would the current vendor be willing to share the rooms with another business tenant? I ask this because there might be noise issues, or privacy issues, and the vendor doesn’t want to share.
You may want to check out the vendor’s financial situation, annual report etc. A 10-year lease is great, but if he is going broke, and that’s why he’s selling up, then it changes the deal.
Whilst the contract may be long- 100 pages or whatever, that’s what your solicitor is paid to do- check it out thoroughly and find any problems in it. If you were unduly influenced to not get your own legal advice, then you may have a case against them.
Once a contract is signed (and given that you had independent legal advice), an out could be that the contract was “unconscionable” but you would have to prove considerable disadvantage personally (such as illiteracy, mental health issues or some such thing), or that the contract was grossly unfair.
Still, there are some people who have been able to get out of these contracts. With the assistance of Jenman and your solicitor, you may even be able to negotiate yourself an out- although I reckon that would be via private mediation or something- and mediatoins are less successful when there’s a power imbalance). But with a mediation, the results are kept private, whereas if the company allowed you an out through the courts, in some sort of civil claim, it would set a public precedent- something which I think the company would be reluctant to have occur.
Neil Jenman’s a helpful man, and a nice one to boot, I think. I am not sure what the mechanisms/process is that they’ll be using to assist you, but as you probably know, the wheels of the legal system can be slooow. I would suggest keeping in touch with Jenman, and asking for some kind of time indication as to how long it might take.
I know that some legal loopholes were removed for people sueing on OTP’s, but you may be in with a case, depending on your circumstances. The Trade Practices Act does prohibit misleading and deceptive conduct, and would override any other policy… but it’s a matter of proving that the conduct was misleading etc… And, as others have discussed on here, if the valuer can demonstrate that the valuation given was based upon appropriate measures… well.. they may just argue the market has changed- and for OTP’s in inner-city areas, no doubt it has.
Meantime, give your solicitor a call and get his or her opinion also- one can’t have too many opinions on these things, I think.
I didn’t attend the seminar, but I hope you don’t mind if I make a contribution.
If you think your properties are performing and have not yet achieved maximum growth/income… then you’d be happy to keep them, as you seem to be doing. But in another post, you’ve said you’re not getting the income required, and hence you have to get a baaa job- hehe- I guess that would be as a shearer ) Some people might choose to sell off under=performers, or highly geared properties, and buy some with more yield.
One can make any reason not to sell, and all would be legitimate. But if you want more income, you might have to look at ways to get that income, and your current portfolio might need reassessing- for you and what you want.
If you don’t want to work, then you may have to sell- in some way or form- could be subdivision, or some other form.
Here’s a post I put in another thread about inspections on strata title properties. It might be useful to you. It was in reference to someone asking ought a PBI be undertaken for bank loan purposes, so the content reflects that. As your unit is new, the info below may not be relevant either- hehe. You might wonder why I’m posting it at all, in fact, such is the irrelevance of it. However, give some thought to the info below, with regard to the SIR.
Have you thought of buying a unit that’s a few years old? Often, if there are any problems, they will have been identified. Also, you can get more of an idea on “real” market value, because the units may have been resold from off the plan already.
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You don’t HAVE to do a BPI (Building and pest inspection) for a new unit, unless your bank demands it. I didn’t get one for a newish unit I just bought, but I did get a Strata Inspection Report- essential viewing, in my opinion Indeed the SIR showed all issues about the building, including any building problems. So you’ll get the dirt on what’s going on both inside the building, and out. Whereas a BPI will only identify problems that might exist, a SIR will tell you about what is being done to address the issues. You’ll find in it letters from solicitors engaged by the BC, reports by engineers, reponses by builders (remember, builders won’t necessarily take responsibility for any problems- they might say “We undertook work with building standard number blah in accordance with the fire protection act blah blah”. If the builders don’t take responsibility, owners might be up for individual special levies to get the building up to scratch. Any special levies forthcoming should be identified and stated in the SIR.
The SIR is a report that is done by a company that does that sort of thing for a living – it’s completely independent. It cost me $150. It will alo identify if there are any tenant issues, and any financial issues. It not only states these things, but analyses them.
So I reckon if you are going to make a choice, get the SIR. The BPI might say there is some real problem occurring, and you’ll get all worried. The SIR will state that the problem is known and is being fixed in September- so why worry?
I think one of the problems with buying IP’s in places with a “stigma”, is that the rental yields are lower. An example was an IP in cabramatta sydney… 125k for a 1-bedder, old 60’s-70’s red-brick apartment. The rental yield was $115. If you double the price for thre cabramatta unit, you can buy a new apartment closer to the city- so you pay 250k but the rental yield is much much higher than $230. I think very outer regions have very poor rental yields. And I think Melton would be similar. I finsd Melton to be so far out geographically from Melbourne. I reckon if you’re going to buy in a city, that you buy in or close to the city- not as far out as Melton. Melton is almost regional.
There’s some other articles on Jenman.com.au on mezzanine finance. Just type “mezzanine” into his search website and they come up. Does anyone have any comments on the article? I am sure developers would be more interested in commenting on the article rather than on Jenman…
Of particular interest to me from that article is this comment:
“It sounds enticing but the risks are high. If a project goes belly-up the mezzanine investors get paid only if there’s anything left over after the banks get paid.”
Thoughts on this, miracle? Peter? Props? Mel? Brendon? Michael? Anyone?
I don’t mean to interfere here, calron and Derek- just a few thoughts.
calron, by all means, advertise services within your signature. People have “OTP Sales” or “Join my databse for CF+ properties” or some such thing. If you wanted to, you could put “investors welcome for developments” or something… advertising in signatures is acceptable.
calron, I didn’t see the substance of your initial post, but the one that remains… well, it appears that the edited one still allows forum members to see what you’re interested in. I imagine people can privately message you if they’re into what you’re looking for.
And most people come from a caveat emptor approach anyway (one hopes), so it keeps everyone safe
So is it “buy at the bottom of the market and sell at the top of the market”? Is that what Steve’s been discussing at the seminar?
I remember when I read multiplication by division and I thought, doesn’t that just mean “buy at the bottom of the market and sell at the top of the market”? I find it interesting when old concepts are given new names and remarketed… I mean, a rose by any other name…
Buying low and selling high isn’t new. But i may have got the ideas wrong. Anyhoo, no matter how you repackage those notions, they’re still sensible ideas.
Does this “velocity” thing have any parts to it? Anyone want to expand on what Steve meant?
People are entitled to challenge me about any comments that I make, as they are about any forum member. As a Moderator, I speak my mind as does any other member. The only difference is that I remove advertising or comments that I assess to be abusive.
I would hardly have become a Moderator if the expectation was that I was to become a Stepford wife. Anyway, back to the topic… sorry, Leigh.
Pepper “baby” I’m late X-gen- 37, so I’m probably still of the steak knife generation I dunno about what’s been done for marketing RE… but I know that free things work for retail giants like Harvey Norman (buy a fridge and we’ll give you a toaster) and for other merchants (buty a stereo and we’ll give you a cabinet, DVD, whatever).
Marketing and freebies has never much been done for property. the “free flights” to market IP’s- the two-tiered marketing ones… well, the pressure was on to buy the IP because the flight had been given. But I think if a vendor could show there’s no “catch” involved, then plenty of people would be interested.
Ya know, I always think… property is such an expensive item, that it wouldn’t kill those who could afford it, to chuck in a holiday with it.
And it’s like Amex giving out freebies or anyone else doing it- sheesh, it’s been done for years. Vive la difference, Leigh!
Maybe, Pepper… but I think of it this way… I am going to check out some newish apartments- each have very little point of differentiation in terms of size, location, views, and no differentiation in price. So I am going to go and see Leigh’s first. Then check out others, but if they are really all the same, and price can be negotiated to the same level, I’ll buy Leigh’s.
Leigh, there will always be people telling others are unprofessional, amateurs, whatever… because people do different things than they do [baaa]but I am saying there are people like me in the market- who would be happy to buy with incentives. Marketing is all about points of differentiation. I think novel approaches are part of being “creative”. You can do what 99.9% of others are doing, or differentiate- and I reckon it would work.
It’s like saying “why don’t workplaces offer extra per year than a bonus?” But many people want the bonus at the end of the year- it has an emotional feel to it (plus a wage rise during the year, of course)
hehe Leigh, and just to think you were gonna sell it to me before *without* any incentives. Well, now, of course, I am gonna wait. You’ll say “I’ll throw in a holiday…” and I’ll say “and then…?” and you’ll say “shopping voucher?” and I’ll say “AND THEN??” and you’ll say “plasma TV?” hehe…
I really think it depends on who is buying in the market. It’s also a tool of marketing- and I would enjoy using that tool. All else things being equal (and that is the salient point), I would be happy to take the holiday. “Bonuses” can work- carsellers can add stuff onto a car and people buy it. It might not help, but it can’t harm.
Try ebay to see what’s around on the 2nd-hand market. There’s lots of real estate books and stuff for sale second-hand on ebay, and other products too.
There are some new apartments being sold in redfern that have a $6k furniture package with them. If your place is fully furnished though, that kills off that notion. If it were not furnished, I reckon it would be good to give a voucher instead of furnishings.
If you wanted to be a bit more “novel”, you could think that if you wanted to spend 2k, well, it wouldn’t buy much furniture, so you could have 2k coucher at fish music, or some place. depends on what market you’re wanting to buy the unit- if it’s yuppies, they’d want the CD’s… if it’s older folks, they might want a voucher at a gardening centre (or they might want CD’s too).
Yack, yes, we know that prices can be inbuilt to “gimicks” so they are not “bonuses” at all… but if a number of units are being sold, and they are all the same, and they are at the same price, and one offers me 2k or 5k or 10k of stuff- for the same price as the others, then i am gonna buy that one over the other ones
And yeah, yack, according to dictionary.com, surmising is a word
Sorry for being off topic here for a minute folks… [offtopic] but…
Leigh, I think having an incentive for buyers is a good thing. I’ve been thinking about this for a while. I remember wondering why people didn’t chuck in a holiday or something, as a point of differentiation for their sale. I dunno if you’ve thought about a holiday instead, but I am thinking that a holiday – like one to the coast or something, could cost you and your hubby a thousand bucks, whereas a car will cost many thousands of $$$. Also, many buyers in sydney probably already have a car. But if the cheapest new car costs 15k, and that’s probably a jellybean car, then why not give a holiday instead? A really good holiday would cost $5k. I mean, I guess you could even give two tickets to europse, and that would cost about 5k- provbably with a few stayover nights.
Some people might even see the car as a bit of a burden- and given sydney’s public transport system beingdecent, may not want the car. I tend to think a holiday might be so attractive to a buyer, particularly those who think “now we’ve bought this investment, we won’t be able to take a holiday for a while.” Now they could have both!
Not trying to be “advisory” here, it’s just something I thought of myself. And I’d love to buy an IP with a holiday- woohoo
For any new investors who are thinking of buying an apartment, special levies can be [thumbsdownanim It is said that particularly with apartments with a pool and a gym, that special levies can be made upon owners to renew equipment etc.
For all things strata, people might find this website useful: