I found your investment story interesting too. Hey LuckyPhil- hope I’m not interrupting []
Mel, I almost got sucked into the two-marketing thing in SE qld about 12 years ago- videos, plane flights- the whole bit. I read somewhere the other day that it’s thought that about 40% of the properties in SE qld were two-tier marketed. I’m so glad you bought and held thpough- i would have got a true market valuation, panicked and sold for a great loss. Funny that SE qld is now the booming part of town. You may yet get a profit!
When I first saw this post, I looked immediately. Kind of like happily opening someone else’s mail in the hope that the mail they get might be more interesting than your own- hehe.
Let google.com be your god, your guru and your nighttime companion )
I use google for everything I need to know, but there’s some things that must be *paid* for (ugh) such as recent sales prices for your area- from the Valuer General’s Office- unless you can con a friendly RE person to give you that stuff.
If I was looking to buy in Hamilton Victoria, for example, first I would just type into google “hamilton victoria” and see what came up. Then I would type in “hamilton victoria real estate” which may just list the RE’s in the area. Then i would look up hamilton population” Then I would look up “unemployment” or “social problems” or “hamilton property boom” or whatever words I wanted to find out. When you find no links to the property boom one, you’ll know there’s been no boom there
I just think up all kinds of combinations of words to find out anything I can find out about the area. These searches let me know about employment opportunities and areas of growth, health, population, where the industry is located, median prices etc.
Chris, this is a discussion board, and you should always put your opinion. There are heaps of people who will correct us if we’re wrong :o))
And any person will probably get a legal opinion or check out many places for info about their questions anyway. Much better than justifying a mistake made to an ATO auditor by saying “but newbie4property told me that on an anoynymous forum board!”
I understand why you questioned my idea of having a pozz geared property. I guess I just have the idea that when we buy property, at some stage we’ll own it! That’s exciting for me- it seems a decent way to get wealthy. The tenant pays for some of it, and I pay for some of it. If it has capital growth, then it’s a bonus. If it doesn’t have much cap growth, but you have tenancy, even if it’s not pozz geared, the tax guy will give us back money. I’ve received back so much tax since I’ve had property that I’ve been able to do much more in putting it towards my property.
Whilst I know pozz gearing and cap growth are great :o) I also think if you get a good value property and a decent rental return, one day you can have your own property portfolio- that’s what I aim for, and it means I am open to looking at many properties- not just some that fit into 1 criterion.
Oops! I just realised what i was reading was the RB’s submission to the Inquiry- not the PC’s final report ;O) WEll, the RB even writes in plain english!
Thanks for bringing our attention to the Productivity Commission’s report. I find their stuff eminently readable (very plain English), and balanced enough to be credible.
I remember when I bought my first IP and missed out on the FHOG- which was, I think, at 14k at that time. Had I know then what I know now… well, I might have done things differently. :o)
Raymond, I think when there is a RE boom, there will always be talk of a RE bubble. There may indeed be a bubble for those areas you mentioned. But if you buy a place that is overvalued to begin with, well, you’ve just bought yourself a bubble!
This “bubble” has not purely been from overseas investors, it’s also had a great input from “mum and dad” investors- first time investors who went to property seminars and put their own home on the line, in terms of equity. Some would have done very well, but really, if many of those people bought the expensive OTP apartments after 2001, it’s unlikely they will make huge profits when the apartments have been completed. That’s my opinion, and I’m sure others might have a different one.
Focussing on the “bubble” is a kind of panic response, I think. The other thing is, the discourse of the bubble has been around for a couple of years now, and properties in certain areas, continue to defy the bubble logic.
The bubble isn’t trouble if you don’t get in over your head.
Am I right in thinking that ifr you havew a fixed rate, you can’t make extra repayments on your mortgage? If so, that would be the deciding point for me. The inflexibility of not being able to pay the place off quicker is a bit of a dud deal.
Can anyone correct me on this? (Go on- you know you want to!)
I liked your post :o) And let’s face it- who wouldn’t want pozzy geared instead of neggy geared? I guess most of us are into this to be able to retire some day, instead of never. And making money is better than losing money.
Having said that, positive gearing is not always possible. You have to buy perhaps cheaper than the property is worth, and ask for pretty high rentals. Sometimes neither is possible nor desirable. Fair value and fair rental also has its merits.
Neg gearing is pretty old-fashioned now as a sales technique, I think. But who could pozz gear an OTP exxy apartment in melby? I doubt it’s possible really.
mender, have you had an independent valuation made on your apartment in st kilda road? You might want to sell it before the mum and dad investors panic and there’s a horde of sellers just like you.
I know this might go against the current wisdom of not buying right now, but I wouldn’t give property a complete miss now. The money you have might be used to purchase a small property, and your gains *could* be much greater than 8.75%.
I bought a property two months ago, just had a valuation done on it and my bank manager told me yesterday it had come back at 29% higher than my purchase price!
I believe there are still gains to be had if you’re a careful teacher :o)) Your 10k could become much more. But I did ask a very similar question to your Q a few weeks ago. I think the lack of tax deductibility, inflation, and missed opportunities would now sway me towards investing cash in property, rather than non-deductible interest.
I know you asked if you could leave that equity in your mortgage, and having reread your Q, I know I haven’t answered your Q at all! hehe. but never mind. Equity is equity, and I think there’s many uses for it.
Phobia, 9.5% for two years does sound attractive, but I wouldn’t want to tie up too much cash for two years. I reckon there are *always* good value properties available- in any market, somewhere.
“…but recently we’ve sold a couple of dogs to alleviate some of our cash poor problem.”
Hope they were some kind of european designer dogs- I can’t imagine your average hound would raise much for a deposit :o)
Mel- you’ve said you are asset rich and cash poor. I know banks loan on seriveability and don’t want people to be too “rent relian”. What’s your opinion on how much banks will loan people? What’s the limit? Even if your properties go up in equity via increased value, surely banks won’t loan people a million bucks on an average wage?
This may sound a naive question to some, but with oincreasing values of houses, a million bucks worth of houses isn’t that much these days. And how do you repay that kind of money?
I tend to find that the apartments in the cheapest range of the OTP apartments usually have some problems with them. I checked out an apartment in glebe for 270k. The range was 270k-800k or something. The 270k one was a studio of about 38sq, no parking etc.
Shaun, I found a lot of the apartments on that site to be a bit exxy actually. I think it’s an idea these days when buying an apartment to not get into buying a “generic” one with no distinguishing features- I think they need views, or something special about them. The other thing is the “no body corporate fees set yet”. That’s one of the biggest ongoing costs in apartments these days. I hope your friend goes into it with caution.
May I ask how much the 2 and 3 bed units 10-15 km’s around brisbane were selling for at the seminar? I’m just wondering where the market’s up to for new apartments.
I don’t know what percentage might care about pensioners. To me, it seems an extraordinary thing to think people would think of their own wealth if it is at the expense of others- I just don’t see that as necessary.
I once wondered how many people would hand back a wallet with money in it (and ID). It could even be a great deal of money- the amount doesn’t really matter, because even a great deal of money could be from a fairly poor person- perhaps some cash as deposit for a house? Anyway, I asked around a bit… how many out of 10 would return the wallet. The answers I got were interesting: those who said “not many- about 2/10” were also ambiguous as to whether they themselves would hand back the wallet. I remember one colleague of mine told me how he and his wife “got lucky” once when they found a wallet with 500 bucks in it (and ID) and they kept it. Me and a few other colleagues found it hard to respect him after that and I always remembered that about him- it made me distrust him as a person.
A question might be this: If you lost your wallet, who do you want to find it? The one who keeps the money, or the one who hands it back intact?
I think RE is a similar proposition- if you were vulnerable – for any reason- would you want to be approached by someone who would respect that and deal with you fairly, or with someone who would think only of their own future wealth, and not of your likelihood of suffering further due to the transaction?
I am sure there would be some people who would know the pensioner was undervaluing his property and would give him a fair price. It’s not that hard to believe, is it?
If people think this is me “dreaming” or “not living in the real world”… I create my own world. Idealistic? Yes. Real? Yes.
Thanks wannabe :o) I’ve even thought about getting out of property investing because it becomes more difficult sometimes to do what feels right, and not to merely “justify” what I’m doing. But it does have its own rewards. I’ve pretty much fallen for every piece of brick and mortar I’ve purchased. I think if I continue to reflect on what I’m doing, I’ll feel good about property investment.
kay henry
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