Forum Replies Created
Yes, that is correct, there are (give or take) 70 for sale. However, there are only 6 still for lease by Butler & Co from an original list a couple of months back of well over one hundred.
To sell in the current market is foolhardy.My point was that if you are unfortunate to have a unit in the Docklands/Southbank area, then at least if you have one in a good position (ie, Flinders Wharf), at least you can be reasonably assured of leasing it.
Originally posted by brahms:MA
if the ‘system’ is so good it should support itself with quality organic growth.
his business platform is built on negativities.
I think brahms has hit Jenman’s problem on the head. He is totally dismissive of any other system used to sell real estate and totally negative in his approach.
His business platform is actually very clever (for him) if you think about it, unfortunately the losers are the agents (and to a lesser extent vendors) that use his system. During this coming downturn in the RE market, in theory the Jenman system should come into its own. However, what are non Jenman agents going to do now? Simple, they will offer private sale instead of auction. And why will they be successful where a Jenman agent won’t? – They have profile. Jenman dismisses profile as being totally unnecessary.
I work for a Jenman RE agency and this agency has been crippled by his system. Whereas most other franchises offer at least some form of help and assistance with profile and agency advertising, Jenman’s offering to us is leaflets to drop into letterboxes. Leaflets like “How to sell your property without a RE agent”. Yeah, right Neil, please explain?
Perhaps Neil is changing though! He has recently changed his opinion on rent roles. Not long ago, rent roles were an unnecessary burden that should be sold off at the earliest opportunity. Now however, he is offering seminars on how to effectively manage a rent role. Oh, so suddenly Mr.Jenman is an expert on rent roles after slagging them off for years!
Maybe he is finaly realising that the tide of offices leaving the Jenman system isn’t going to stop.
Sorry Neil, but the Jenman System is a dead duck.
Originally posted by kay henry:Huge apartment blocks with hundreds of units in each of them, no points of differentiation…
kay henry
I agree, this is the major problem at the moment in the Docklands area. However, not all developments are suffering this problem at the moment. For example,the Flinder’s Wharf development is just about fully leased, 5 months after completion.
So it’s not all doom & gloom if you haven’t got to sell. While I’m getting depreciation allowances of $25k per year and can easily lease my apartment, I’m really not worried at all.
JP
Without any doubt the agent has a legal right to his commission. If you read your agency agreement you will see that any buyer who is introduced to you through the agent will enable the agent to claim a commission, no matter whether he buys during or after the term of the agreement. (See Waynel’s post).
Go on Yack, test it in court I dare you. If you win I would be amazed.
Good ol’ Neil again…
Quite honestly I think his is the pot callng the kettle black. Neil Jenman is happy to condone the poor treatment of staff that work for Jenman agents (approved or otherwise), but is quick to jump on anyone who he thinks is acting in a manner likely to upset some poor member of the general public, who of course can’t think for themselves (so Neil has to help them).
Jenman is a bit like the “Iron Lady”, he is not for turning. Even if he is wrong (and he is about a lot of things), I have never heard him apologise to anyone.
As an example, a coleague once phoned the Jenman group and asked for assistance because they were having problems making the Jenman system work. Their reply was to phone their boss and tell them to “get rid of them” that they were “lazy” and “useless”.
Is it ethical to charge agents thousands of dollars and give them nothing in return? When was the last time you saw a TV advert for Jenman offices? Never. Do you think that he really believes that profile is not important? Only a fool would think that and he isn’t one. He knows exactly what he’s doing.
Is any of this ethical behaviour? I don’t think so but then, that’s Jenman rules for you.
Get rid of them.
Not sure what the rules are in WA but here in NSW if a tenant is 14 days in arrears you can send him a termination notice and take him to the tribunal. Of course that doesn’t mean that the do-gooders at the CCCT wont take pity on the lying toads and let them stay, subject to some ridiculous agreement which, of course the tenant will break. Why do we have to put up with these people?
Sounds to me as if your PM is an idiot. (Apologies if the rules are different there).
Originally posted by Chan$:That’s right you have to put up with it and look for opportunity else where. Even when you complaint, does it change a things?
Chan Dollars
[Retire Young, Retire Rich] [strum]Perhaps “complain” isn’t the right word. We all need to get more involved with our own future. Campaigning for a fairer tax system is something that we should all be doing. To not do so is to invite the unjust tax system that currently exists here. If you accept things as they are they will never change, that is apathy.
JP
Originally posted by Chan$:There is no point of complaining and I am pretty sure it won’t change a thing.
Chan Dollars
[Retire Young, Retire Rich] [strum]Ahh, So this is why Australians have to put up with such a taxation hell hole.
JPIn tune with all Reds around the world, their politics is based on high taxes.
As usual, politicians act after the event. Property prices have already started to slow so what do they do? Increase the gradient a little just to get them sliding a bit faster. Policies of the blind and/or stupid.
God help us if Latham gets in.
JP
Originally posted by Still in School:Hi Jparrie,
sounds like a good idea, but i see one huge flaw… presumming you did invest that money on an instant consistent return of $3750 a month…
or $45,000 a year ($3750 * 12)… how much tax would you end up paying…
it would be much better off invested into an assets that provides good debt, but at the same time is either appreciating in value or providing cashflow… but good debt must be there at the same time, to limit the amount of tax, that you could be liable for…
Cheers,
sis…until the taxman beats you with his ever bigger stick!
Well, this is fair isn’t it?
Taxed when you buy property, taxed when you own property, taxed when you sell property. Taxed 1/2 of what you earn, taxed on 2nd hand cars, marginally taxed on savings, taxed an extra 15% on Super if you earn a reasonable amount, taxed 10% on everyday shopping, etc etc ad infinitum. Yep, sound about right for Australia and it’s treatment of the poor old tax payer.
Tax in it’s own right is fine, it’s just the quantity that makes you think, well, is it all worth it?
JP
The market is not going to implode, why would it? Interest rates are low and will stay low, inflation is under control and will remain so, etc etc.
However, with rental yields so low and sentiment not being what it was, wouldn’t it be a good idea to spend the next couple of years just waiting and watching? Clearly, there will be no huge capital gains to be had from now on.
If I had $600k I would invest it at 7.5% – instant access, 8.75% – fixed 12 months,(City Pacific mortgage trust) and sit back and relax.No tenant worries, no repairs, no crippling strata fees, just $3750 per month, every month. Shame that the Aus government is so unfriendly when it comes to savings. And tax rates in general for that matter.
JP
wrappack, a “suicidal lemming” would be a very good analogy. Don’t want to go too deep into my past life for obvious reasons, but in answer to your question you aren’t a million miles off track. To your questions:
If I look around at all the other agencies in my area they all have something that we don’t – profile. I know a lot of agents and they all say the same thing, that they get a fair number of “Come and value my property, I’m thinking of selling” calls. We get none, ever, because nobody knows about us. Jenman’s answer to this problem is to have us all go out knocking on doors asking “Wanna sell your house?” (Not quite like that but you know what I mean). That, on its own, is about as successful as trying to win lotto.
Also, having spoken to a fair few of the general public on the subject of ethical behaviour in real estate, quite honestly I have found that most people are very skeptical of the Jenman message and really couldn’t care less, because they know that most of the local agents are reasonably ethical too and 9 times out of 10, they will sell their house for a price the client is happy with. “Happy with” could consume a whole book, so I wont go down that path yet.
aussierogue, I agree, it does sound like a contradiction, but don’t confuse real & relevant study with a method of weeding out those who simply can’t be bothered to go through the necessary tedium to secure a job. Only 1 in 100 people get a job (it could be less) and it is a very, very long process.
I entered this with my eyes wide open and a willingness to be educated on the wrongs of the real estate industry. Unfortunately I have witnessed some of the worst mismanagement (from both my boss & Jenman) that I couldn’t possibly have imagined.
Anyway, I wont be here too much longer…
JP
Mate, if Jenman knew my real identity I would be out quicker than you could say “Ethics!” This is the great shame about the Jenman group; if you disagree you are a rogue, a traitor, a backstabber and should be cast aside like the expendable commodity you are.
This job took me 9 months to get. I had to write reports on several books I had to read, listen to hour upon hour of tapes and write reports on them, do a 4 day trial without pay ((how ethical (or legal) is that?)), go to numerous mind numbing seminars and finaly take a 6 hour, yes 6 hour exam. I have LOTS of stories I could tell…(but only if you’re interested)
I do agree with you aussierogue, I think Neil is genuine about improving the industry and the bad practices that exist. I guess I am just looking at the whole thing through slightly different eyes – that of someone who actually has to deal with the working practices – and as far as this office is concerned, I think they are badly thought out, ill advised and fundamentaly flawed. A bit of proper business logic and business education would go a long way to improving the current situation.
I also think that the client is also being misrepresented about our skill levels. The Jenman group will tell potenial clients that salesmen receive training in the art of negotiation – really? when was that then? at one of the seminars? C’mon, tell the truth! We don’t get ANY proper training at all and the boss can’t train us because he doesn’t know anything about how to run a business. Jenman is simply a point of difference and it could be a good one if only some of the ludicrous working practices were dropped.
Someone above made a very valid point about not wanting to be “screened/qualified” before being showed the agents listings, mention this to Jenman and the answer is that you are not a genuine buyer! Really! I wonder how many people we alienate with our ways?
Hi Aussierogue
To be honest I don’t think the owner of the business I work for really knows why he is a member. There was this huge ‘dream’ of expanding the office and taking over the area in which we work, but exactly the opposite has happened, the processes that Jenman champions have been followed religiously but have failed miserably. But how was it ever supposed to work? We don’t advertise (Jenman’s answer is there is no need – clients come to us via the sign outside the property), so there is very little buyer enquiry, which according to Jenman is good – because any enquiry that we do get is supposedly good enquiry (or people that actually want to buy)- a dangerous assumption? (for the Vendor & agent)
So almost all of our outgoings are spent on Jenman promotional material and if you saw some of it you would laugh your socks off. The latest leaflets that we are supposed to deliver are an absolute cracker – by that I mean that they are staggeringly unbelievable in their naivety. I sometimes get the feeling that we are being used in some big Jenman experiment, just to see what does and doesn’t work.
The Jenman group doesn’t believe that a normal education (ie, a Degree) has any bearing on a persons ability to work in real estate. This may be true, but when the owner of a business has no education in running a business it shows. The real estate business is (or can be) a fantastic cash cow, if properly run.
More later…As someone who works in a Jenman Real Estate office, (at the coal face) basically I can say from experience that his business logic is totally flawed. I am slowly watching this office fall apart. His ideas are largely unproven and dangerous. His agents charge more, on the basis that they offer more, but this is simply untrue. Their “training” consists of attending seminars at which the same material is trotted out over and over again, year after year. It’s also unfortunate
that his “ethics” stance does not extend to the staff that work under his dictatorial methodology. (Their response to any criticism is that we are just whingers, do what we say)I think that he truly believes in the protection of property purchasers and yes, there are agents out there that would sell their own Granny, but not all agents are as black as he paints them.
Teabagted (above) said that “He did admit that the subscription to Neil Jenman’s ethics training system is very expensive”, bloody hell, you don’t know the half of it! He has the gall to bag franchises, but basically charges the same and offers very
much less than all the major franchisers offer – like advertising their business. Ask Jenman about Profile and the answer is simple – “You don’t need it”. Utter, utter nonsense.If they actually gave business owners training on how to properly run a business, perhaps the exorbitant fees could be justified, but they don’t and they can’t. Plenty more to write but I gotta go…
JP
