Forum Replies Created
- KeyStrategies wrote:Portfolio PI wrote:Hi Keystrategies, just my strategy for where I am in my property investment cycle.
I also believe that investing in property is not just about trying to achieve the highest rent possible, it is the longevity and continued capital growth that I and other investors also look for – but sometimes you can achieve cashflow in one area and capital growth in another.
With regard to the Surat Basin (Miles and Chinchilla) I have replied on a separate post.
Thanks
Hi,
Thanks for all of those links, I’ll be sure to have a look at them all. One of the great things I like about investing in regional QLD is the diverse opportunities that present itself with each town. I am not anti or even pro any particular town although I do have my favourites for personal investing, I think each region/town are all great investments on their own merits. Each person must do what is right for there own strategy and its great that you have found that also.
With your property in Moranbah, will you rent it out furnished or unfurnished?
Cheers,shoooshoo wrote:Having a look at REIQ.com.au suburb/town profile, Emerald's property prices have been flat since 2007, after great gains between 04-07. The flat period concerns me abit.Yes it was a little bit lower than the previous years, none the less still some growth. Each town fluctuated in its own right during the GFC. the 10% growth so far this year has been great!
Also the investment that happened in the last mining boom is negligible compared to the next 4 years. And look what happened to Emerald than!
Hi David, if you send through your details I have a builder that is doing a lot in Kallungur area, in fact he is just about finished building his own 9 unit development there. Very good and well priced, as well as quick yet quality! I can have him tender for it also.
feel free to send me an email.
Cheers,
Hi Keystrategies,
Thanks for your post its great!
The Bowen Basin has two major service centres. To the south is Emerald and to the North is Mackay. Although that is not where all of the miners live they are the two areas that provide major infrastructure and servicing for the mining and rich agricultural activities throughout the Bowen Basin. There are towns like Dysart, Moranbah, Blackwater, etc that get a large concentrated number of mines wanting to rent out houses. This is great for investors as you have discovered with the purchase of your duplex, you receive such high ROI in way of rents and potential capital growth.
Should the mines impose a 100km radius for workers this would actually have the opposite effect on Emerald than you are thinking. A large number of people that work in the mines in the south of the Bowen Basin live in Rockhampton and Yeppon. This would mean that they would have to move. If this is implemented by some mines, it is not an overall mining industry rule, it will be imposed by certain mines and not all. The mines at alpha for instance wouldnt, or should i say couldnt, impose such regulations as this would mean they would all have to live in Alpha which is impossible due to no infrastructure etc.
As a part of mining recruitment, and as much higher demand appears for skilled employees, many mining companies must offer lifestyle for their workers to encourage longevity. It is common knowledge that the mines do not expect to retain employees on a long term basis when housing them in places with limited infrastructure and lifestyle opportunities.
There are a number of motels in Emerald, many of which are not that old, the demand comes from a number of fly in fly out workforce, however this is quite often due to the service and contracting industries that are based there. As the regional hub for the south of the Bowen basin it also attracts many business visitors which occupy a large percentage of the accommodation.
Emerald has significantly more infrastructure than Blackwater and always will. The international coal centre is basically and information and tour centre for visitors to the area. It was placed there as Blackwater is considered to be the coal mining capital of Australia due to the number of mines around it. Despite this being the case over the last decade at least, Emerald has continued to attract more people, more businesses, more mine offices and more infrastructure than Blackwater. In fact the cafe that opened up at the visitor centre had closed down for a while.
During the last GFC Emerald outshone all of these areas in regards to real estate. Prices did not fall, rents were secure and reasonably steady, and the town continued to prosper during such dire times while other regional centres failed to perform to the level that Emerald did as mines cut funding etc for short periods of time and re-structured. What Emerald positions itself as, is a long term, secure investment which also achieves reasonable rents and good solid capital growth as a large percentage of the population is owner occupiers, hence the lifestyle opportunities and the ability to sustain a family model in this area. If you are looking to hold a property for 10+ years, you would obviously be looking for long term growth and security as a property investor. The likes of Bunnings Warehouse/wesfarmers group, Gerry Harvey, centro, woolworths all seem to be of the same mindset here as they look to secure a presence/and or a larger market share in Emerald. Families move to Emerald for long term employment, education & lifestyle. With a choice of schools, tafes and the Central QLD university positioned in Emerald it provides a family with the ability to raise their children in the region and also provides the infrastructure for the kids to further their education and or employment with a wide array of employment opportunities, not just mining. Many other regional towns cannot offer this so they will continue to be subject to such a transient population. I believe that investing in regional QLD is no just about trying to achieve the highest rent possible, it is the longevity and continued capital growth that many investors also look for.
In regards to chinchilla area, excuse my ignorance on it, which mega-mines were you referring to? there is the wandoan coal project which has the ability to produce a large amount of export coal, I wasn’t aware of other mines that had this export capacity.
I am keen to hear your thoughts on all of this.
shooshoo
that’s amazing! a high turnover of tenants by the sound of it. In regional QLD you shouldn’t have those types of issues in most places. If you would like more info on what we are going to release just send me an email and I can send all the information through to you as soon as I have it packaged together tomorrow. I am very excited about the builder that we are using as he does a great house and his price is really really good!
Regards,
It looks fairly thorough. You have allocated for an extra 1% interest which is good, however in current real terms the 1% difference could be $153 per fortnight.
Being an older property there’s no/limited depreciation (depending on exactly how old). I would go for something that could provide a bit of depreciation to minimise your 37% tax bracket without you having to be out of pocket.
What growth drivers will impact this property do you see?
shoooshoo wrote:Thanks Josh, just read your blog entry on Gladstone on your webpage blog.I was just thinking that this might be a good option for you, I still recommend to watch the market there closely, however if you are comfortable with it then it is worth exploring. I am working with a builder where we can provide really good quality H&L’s at approximately $500,000, furnish them and achieve $1000 per week rent. After costs this could be approximately $9000 CF+ before depreciation is taken into account.
Is this the type of cash flow you were after?
GLADSTONE UPDATE
It seems the Gladstone council and QLD State government have come to terms with the social and economic impact of the LNG boom and have accepted the fact that GLNG will house 48% of its total workforce in Gladstone itself, not on Curtis Island as originally planned. I would assume that other companies will follow suit here.
This advancement significantly reduces the risk that was apparent in the local property market with the initial EIS proposal for accommodation.
I thought I would update my findings for you all. I am in negotiations with a few builders here so I will let you know of my outcome to see what investment opportunities come up. Rents are going strong here. For a 4 x 2 x 2 house fully furnished you will achieve $1000 per week easily, with increases every 6 months! That’s a good 10% return pretty much with some strong capital growth in the coming years. None the less, I still believe it is a market that should be watched closely should you decide to invest there.
Josh
shoooshoo wrote:hi Joshthanks again for your information. I havent ruled out Emerald, just not yet convinced about it, where are the four mines, are they all in Alpha, and do you know the amount of people who are going to work their on an ongoing basis?
Also i just read your entire blog about the Surat Basin and Gladstone, very good stuff. You dont have the work force graphs for the surat basin regions as well as emerald do you ?
Hi Shooshoo,
yes there are 4 planned for Alpha. they are all planned to be the same size so that makes approximately 9000 – 1000 people approximately should all the mines go ahead. That’s just direct employees, contracting/service companies in Emerald would expand significantly also, providing a long term flow on affect throughout the town/region. I am working on similar information that I posted for Gladstone for people now. It is a bit harder for these areas as there are more projects to research compared to Gladstone.
Hi Mike,
welcome to the forum and to property investing!
Whilst I am not a mortgage broker my understanding by experience is as follows:
Given your equity position you would have enough to draw from a line of credit to provide a deposit for the investment property. I would use your equity for this not your offset account cash. By doing this it means you can still offset the interest of your PPR which is not tax deductible and maximising the tax deductions on your potential investment property.
Essentially you would be borrowing 100% of the investment property when using equity to fund the deposit. This is quite common.
In regards to the dispersement of the repayments, you would assume that if 10% of your investment property loan is from the line of credit than you would allocate 10% of the negative gearing towards that loan and 90% to the other loan proportionately.
$200 per week out of pocket is a lot and by buying a property that puts you behind so much could significantly reduce your borrowing power in the future which would hinder your ability to expand your portfolio. I would be looking for at least neutrally/positively geared properties and I assume that my opinion here on the forum would be reiterated. There’s great areas in Aus that are achieving excellent capital growth and will do in the future along with high rents. This is just my thoughts and how my portfolio is structured.
In regards to paying off your PPR and then making it an investment property, what about just keep putting extra funds into your offset account, you can the use these funds for you principle place of residence when you buy a bigger one, which means that you would then be paying interest on the investment property whilst you put the funds into the new house. This would maximise tax benefits I would imagine, especially with costs of the property as you can offset any losses against your wage which appears to be significant.
I hope this helps!
austinvest wrote:Portfolio PI wrote:I am looking at an estate where the land is selling for mid 200's, when you add regional build costs at $1500 sqm you are looking at $550,000 before costs (stamp duty, construction interest etc). So far it seems that valuations sometimes won't stack up at this. Rent for this will be $600 approx –$1500 per sqm? If you're paying that you are getting royally ripped off.
$1250sqm should be the maximum you should outlay and that is with a quality local builder. A lot of the builders up this way are not local, Aspire being one of them.
Austy
Thanks Austy,
what builders do you recommend around that pricing? who did you build with?
Hi shooshoo
I will get you the information for Dysart as soon as I have completed my analysis. In essence what I showed you was proof that Emerald will be the service hub for 4 potential mines which will all individually be nearly the largest coal mines in the world. It provides lifestyle and services that the smaller towns don’t. It may not be for you which is fine.
Dysart is attracting some really great rents, There’s not a lot for sale there as it is small and things all throughout Central QLD are moving fast so keep an eye out for what it is you want and when you see it jump on the opportunity as quickly as you can in those areas.
There are 2 feasibility / pre-feasibility studies underway plus a concept plan for new mines near dysart along with 1 expansion pre-feasibility study underway for lake vermont mine all to the north of Dysart.
To the South there is a $200m new coal mine from middlemount coal with an EIS for the $100m stage 2 expansion. Also Anglo-American are conducting a pre-feasibility study for a new mine in the south.
I haven’t got to their publications yet however if time is of the essence for you check out the following companies:
1. anglocoal.com.au
2. jellinbah.com.au
3. macarthurcoal.com.au
4. bhpbilliton.com.au (saraji mine)I’ll have all my research done on this shortly (I didn’t make it to Dysart on my Mackay trip however I will be heading there from Emerald shortly) I have been to Dysart numerous times so I do know the area. Everything has been very busy especially dealing with Central QLD markets so I will do my best to have as much information for you as possible as soon as I can.
shoooshoo wrote:I only have negative geared property , so I’m running out of cash flow, so need at least neutral geared. But the bank always assess your DRS with an extra 2% interest on the current rate, so positive is better. I’m flexible about the kind of return I want. If I get a property with positive cash-flow that doesn’t grow, that is fine, because in Melbourne I have the properties that are going to grow in capital. The other option would be to get. Neutral geared property that would grow. So as a long term plan, buy one positive geared, and one negative/neutral geared, to balance each other, and keep repeating the process for the folio to grow. Unless I wait years and years, or get a massive wage increase, I cant seem to think on how I can build my property port folio quickly, without cash-flow positive geared property. So as an example buy one in Dysart, then on in capital city, or larger regional centers, What do you think?Neutrally geared properties (after tax) are easy to come by in Qld. Do you have any tax that you can claim depreciation etc or is your tax already offset with your other properties. The neutrally geared properties usually convert over to well and truly positively geared within a couple of years in regional Qld with rental increases.
In Dysart for example, if you start at a 10.5% return gross, you come down to approximately 9% net return before interest. Assuming current rates @ 7%, leaves you with 2% return before tax on that property. ($10,000 CF+ on a $500,000 property). you may assume some rental rises etc, so you may be better off in the long run, this is just a scenario on what seems to be going at the moment with leases in place. Its a good result, that tops the bank up by $10,000 for the other properties which are costing you, however, I would look more strategically if you can afford a little less rent to start with as you will find CF+/neutral properties in QLD that will grow in capital also. Creating the best of both worlds for you at once, without having the headache of buying two properties to produce essentially 1 result.
If it was me buying in Dysart and or Moranbah, I would be cautious of the market, I am not saying it is going anywhere, in fact I will assume is will remain quite strong, it is however a bit more volatile as it relies solely on mining. Mining as a whole will be great and prosperous for Australia’s future. However when you are in towns like these you need to be aware that a change in direction or plan from just one company can have a significant negative or positive impact on the housing market. I would be looking at properties in these towns with the possibility of value adding immediately (subdividing, renovating etc). Unfortunately every man and his dog have already thought of this so you will pay a premium for properties that you can do this to. If you are time poor than this may be hard also.
Before I go further, do you have tax that you can offset or has this been done already for you with your current properties?
minichick wrote:JT7 wrote:minichick wrote:Portfolio PI wrote:minichick wrote:I would wait and see if the carbon tax goes through before investing in any mining area atmhow is the carbon tax going to impact coal mining exports?
http://www.miningweekly.com/article/carbon-tax-will-hurt-jobs-in-coal-mining-report-2011-06-14
<moderator: I have deleted the pasted text of the article. Please use link to see the article>
9 contracts have pulled out last time Rudd tried a similar tactic jobs were lost and the reigns given to Juliar would be nice to be wrong as I was considering investing in some towns such as Blackwater/Emerald dysart/middlemount are just to risky for my SANF
There appears little doubt this carbon tax is causing the industry some headaches. It has surely caused uncertainty in the market and increased sovereign risk in the short term. However, I also think there is some scare mongering from both sides.
It is my understanding, and I'm only to happy to be corrected, that the carbon tax will only add approximately $1.20c to the cost of 1 tonne of coal for export.
There may be some confusion between the tax on export coal apposed to coal fired energy facilities such as Hazelbrook down in Victoria which burns high polluting brown coal.
I believe the underlying fundamentals are extremely strong. There is a whole lot of politics going on at the moment and some spin on truths. Don't listen so much to what these massive mining companies are saying at the moment but look at what they are quietly doing.
Jack
My husband is an ex miner 3 mates from the bowen basin area called last weekend they are worried about there own properties.
These are locals 1 is a UM the other a deputy. 1 mate says if it kicks in he’ll loose his high paying job and have a 350k mortgage on a house worth about 50k.
EXPORT is the one thing that will get hit hard china will not buy from us even though we have the highest quality coal if cost is 50% higher then the next best competitor.
May want to read this article:
You can take the word of spruikers or listen to locals which one is wiser on the current market the one trying to make a buck selling an overpriced property?
Or mining employees/employers worried about there own future, I know which one I choose only a fool would choose a spruikers word…I pray that Brown oops I mean Gillard doesn’t get her way.
minichic,
how will exports be hit hard when the cost of producing export coal will rise by $3 per tonne potentially. intact that article states that coal will expand.
the day the carbon tax was announced Peabody energy bid $5b for a large coal mining company where it’s main deposits are in the Bowen basin. as an ex local of the Bowen basin and an owner of over 15 properties now in the Bowen basin, I really don’t see how your point is valid. I’m not trying to be rude but some of the largest companies in the world are going against your advice.
what will be affected in the Australian coal industry are coal powered power plants. the amount of coal that is produced in Aus that goes to the power plants is minimal. this will not affect production one bit with current export demand.
if the coal industry and other minerals fail, how fo you suggest the government would survive? they are stupid, but thru are not stupid enough to cut off the hand that is feeding them. that’s exactly how Kevin Rudd was pushed out.
I can assure you, intact I will bet my 15 properties on it, that this carbon tax will not affect export coal mining.
they estimate 15% of the workforce will be drive in drive out or bus in bus out from emerald
shooshoo…
here is an exert from the alpha coal projects EIS…
The Project will accommodate the majority of the construction and operational workforce in an on-site accommodation village within the Project boundary. The workforce is anticipated to be predominantly fly in, fly out (FIFO) due to the location and distances to population centres capable of accommodating such a large workforce. The Project will also have drive in, drive out (DIDO) opportunities for some local residents, and bus in, bus out (BIBO) opportunities from key regional centres. FIFO workers will be collected from key regional centres throughout Queensland based on workforce sourcing realities at the time, and flown to Alpha aerodrome for their work rotations. FIFO workers will be bussed to site from the aerodrome and back to the aerodrome after their work rotation. Hancock Prospecting Pty Ltd (HPPL) (the Proponent), prefers to hire locally and regionally but has designed a mainly FIFO project with on-site accommodation in anticipation of the high likelihood workers will need to be sourced outside the region.
shoooshoo wrote:hi Josh,very interesting, yes i see your point now about that. Although the mines going up are in Alpha, which is 160km away from Emerald, and the mining companies are only going to allow the miners to be stationed 100km from the mine, for safety reasons.
Hi Shooshoo,
The location of employees for the mines in alfa has never been of concern for me, I would assume that they will go into camps out there with fly in fly out.
However that is for direct employees. Maintenance contractors, services, supplies etc are all based in Emerald along with the main mining companies (hasting deerings, Cat etc) are all based in Emerald and Mackay. By the demand on these companies alone with the alpha mines and mines locally that are currently operating and expanding in many aspects, I see a lot of growth occurring in Emerald.
If the mine chooses to use emerald as a base for employees, which it won’t to a large extent I believe, than that is just a bonus! But for me, Emerald is a solid, steady, secure performer.
Shooshoo, are you after rental yields, Capital Growth or longevity? I know that most people would want all three, however this isn’t always possible. What time span are you wanting to invest in regional QLD for? Is it important that you are cash flow positive to a large extent or are you happy for added security and being cash flow neutral for the first year?
Cheers,
hi Josh,
thanks for your response, very appreciated. However, i dont see much difference between the surat basin towns like Chinchilla, and Emerald in the Galilee Basin. Except Emerald has about 10,000 extra population. Chinchilla is also getting a Woolsworth, McDonald’s, etc. How do you know both these towns wont have over supply in the coming years after construction is done on the developments?
[/quote]Hi Shooshoo,
In relation to long term operations, coal mining is a lot more labour intensive than Coal Seam Gas industries. Once the plants are operational the workforce that is needed is minimal, also the sub contracting companies and suppliers and services are a lot less than coal mining. With coal mining, they are using machines that breakdown and need new parts etc on a large scale.
This has an impact on these areas long term I believe
Josh
nguli wrote:Hi All,I am looking for someone with a legal background or similar to help explain the new QLD building boost to me in regards to newly renovated properties.
The link is below:
http://boost.treasury.qld.gov.au/investor/faqs.php#heading-2809159538It says that new homes are eligible and then says this about new homes in the FAQ's;
What is a ‘new’ home?
A new home is a home that:
- has not been previously occupied or sold as a place of residence; or
- is a substantially renovated home (see below).
A home is a substantially renovated home if:
- the home is the subject of a contract for the purchase of the home; and
- the sale of the home under the contract is, under the A New Tax System (Goods and Services Tax) Act 1999 (Cwlth), a taxable supply as a sale of new residential premises as defined under section 40-75(1)(b) of that Act; and
- the home, as renovated, has not been previously occupied or sold as a place of residence.
Points 1 & 2 above are a bit over my head if someone can please explain them.
Basically I want to know if a house has been inhereted and then fully renovated with no one living in it at all, would I then be eligible for the $10'000 grant if I was to buy it off the vendor?
Thanks in advance,
Cheers,
Nathan
Hi Nathan,
even as renovated it is not a new build. You will only get the grant for building contracts or new homes that you have purchased from the 1st August where the seller will no doubt need to provide a declaration that it is a new construction, the date of build etc quite often.
A renovated home, no matter how far renovated will not be eligible. It the house has been lived in (be it renovated or not) it does not class as a new home.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
doesnt that depend which state you are in?
even if you were, if they dont have an appointment to act they cant put there hand out. This is for QLD anyway