I wouldn't bid on anything on line if i hadn't been through the whole house, who knows when those pictures were taken
People buy these 1 to 5k houses everyday of the week of off the interenet… Heck people buy 100k rentals off the internet.
It really boils down to the team on the ground and how well the investor vettes them.. And what kind of credentials the team has to present to the investor.
with The TWH Model I have only had one person go and actually look at a property physically,,, they are investing in us the property is important but we are really what they are investing in… Our financial standing and experince and ability to execute.
Just like large Reits and such… Not many of the people that poor billions into these investments ever do more than read a perspective look at some pics maybe google it then buy the stock. They are more interested in the operators track record and financial ability the properties are just the vehicle. Or if you buy any other blue chip stock.. Not many people go and inspect the factory or office complex.. they might go to the shareholders meeting. speaking of this.. That is why I always own a few shares in some of the nicer winery's in Napa… Like to go to the share holders annual party Eh meeting I mean.
And just think some out of area buyer bought this for 70k from some nice turn key company in 07 and lost all their money.
Kyler,,, there is defiantly a play for locals that can look after these manage them themselves etc etc.
The tenant pool regardless of how well you screen them is going to be hit and miss in these neighborhoods period.
I just got to think that the Absentee landlord just does not want the constant drain on energy managing these that is reality. Your turning tenants every 6 to 10 months. hardly predicatable cash flow.
I have 2 differrent buddies that are in your bizz in KC.. they work it but again the constant turn over is really tough on all but the ones that do this for a living.
Also the last thing you want is a huge house in the NE the heating bills in the winter kill the renters…
I learned this the hard way with one I bought in Chicago…
We prefer to buy where it does not snow and freeze… those conditions are tough on properties and lead to increased maintenance.
I know a lot of Aussies like Rochester, although i know a lot of Aussies got their clocks cleaned there as well… It could be they were paying 80k for these same houses…
So with the above mentality thats how I created my investment model everyone is along for the ride and we stay connected to the investor and protect them till the end.
Some of my dearest friends are folks I sold their ranch land for…. they would list it with a city slicker C 21 agent who really did not know land sales.. but had great marketing ya know a big billboard or something.
But I got out there I could run the corners use a compass ( pre GPS days) new what timber had value and what was scrub…
I still own one tree farm here in Oregon… In fact Tree farms in the right growing zones will give you Net yeilds that surpass many other cash flow investments, Like I was mentioning John Hancock figures there tree farms return them 10 to 14% net yearly. But of course you may go 10 or 20 years between harvests. So you need a lot of timber ground to be harvesting every year.
Timber Barrons Railroad Barrons Steel Barrons then it was Oil and now its that new fangled Social media Barron
My point is these SFR's are really really basic type investments,,, And most agents that specialize in this asset catagory know the market well,, know the product work hard for their 6% which is usually cut in half by sharing with other brokers.
Its not necessary to deal with an agent of course and there are plenty of good turn key guys that are sharp as well.
So Alex you have not commented on my profound knowledge of the American west and large tract land holdings
The gentle men that wanted to buy this 50k acres for a gun range probably does not realize that most folks with guns just drive down a deserted road and fire away.. Only city slickers go to the range.
Man 35 years of doing this and you do gain some real time knowledge.. I loved selling big ranch's when I was a newly minted RE broker… in those days you took listing for 2 and 3 year contracts because thats how long it takes to sell them, and I would routinely broker these for 10 to 20% commissions so when one popped off I had a very nice pay day. Of course rare was bare land to sell for cash.. So I would share the monthly payments until my commish was paid off, I sold far more properties than agents that just could not wrap there mind around not getting all their commish up front.
I am sure there are many huge land holdings in OZ like this.
These types of holdings are tradiionaly cattle operations. And the value is usually realted to cow calf carry capacity per acre.
Also note that the acreage is checkerboarded with BLM… (bureau of Land management) another words US government owned.
this is how the west was divided years ago. With big Timber,, Big railroad, and ranchers owning alternating sections of land.
US land is subdivided nationwide in SEctions Sections are 640 acres square or 1 mile by 1 mile. And they are located off of the base and meridan lines of a half dozen major monuments in the US.
For instance in the West its the Mt. Diablo Base and Meridian, Mt. Diablo is just 50 miles east of San Fran.
Anyways..
No one is going to pay to go shoot guns on this property too much public land where they can shoot for free.
The only one who buys these kinds of parcels are the super rich…. Like Ted Turner he has bought huge chunks of the US west mainly Montanta and New Mexico… Nevada especially this part is out in the middle of nowwhere there are not a lot of redeming features.
Save the BURNING MAN festival ( google that one) and or house's of ill repute and sleazy gambling joints.
for 11 million dollars there are far better trophy properties than this….
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I do own a 700 acre tree farm in Oregon and I can tell you timber is a great investment in the US. Of course we bought this parcel in 2001 and will not take a dime off of it until 2021… But we paid 2 mil sold off 10 lots for 1.4 mil and in 2021 when the timber ripens and we can harvest we will pull almost 250k net a year off this property every other year for ever…. Its self sustaining.
The largest owner of timber land in the US Is Warehouser and their number one financer is the insurance company JOHN HANCOCK out of Boston….. This is the basis of almost all of the annuity type investments that insurance companys make.
The Harvard Universtiy endowment also has billions invested in long term debt in Timber lands in the US…. and other parts of the world…
Any ways if you want to look at trophy ranchs send me an email and I will be happy to send you info,, and I doubt this is spruiking Up until 2000 I made my living logging timber and buying and selling ranch land.. I love that business.
There is certainly a place in the US for slumlording and those that live and work it do very well… Its a niche for sure.
Same with those that buy low end Apartment blocks and crappy retail space in high crime areas. there is always some one that will make it a go.
Just not an appropriate investment in my mind for the Out of area out of country investor.
There is a reason the commercial banks in the mid west will not loan to anyone for an investment property if they live more than 100 miles from the property… The banks know they just end up owning the assset and loosing their butts.
last 2 years have been some of the best for hardmoney lending….. competition got killed in 08 and 07, and underwriting standards went from back of a napkin to full blown "A" paper submissions.
Now the pendulim will swing as money un thaws but will take some time so those making loans right now really have total control.
Although i still like the asset side of this cycle loading up on these house's.
working very hard though on my non recourses long term financing for foriegn investors and US IRA borrowers.
have a meeting tomorrow with Special assets department of Wells Fargo so see how that goes. There is such a demand for this product we really need 50 million or so to start…
Keep you posted once we get that product up and running. likely be mid year.
well, good thing to point out none the less so people are aware of what to look for..
I guess I just default to my underwriting days… You know being a hardmoney lender we are always very leary of every transaction.
Just look at the submission documents for Ageis for private funding there it is a fairly exhaustive amount of detail.. but I am sure they do not have many Ugh we should have caught that.
<br /:)” title=”>:)” class=”bbcode_smiley” /> have a great day now to work we go.
For the realtor to go ON TITLE the Title co. has to pre pare a deed from the Seller to these new owners. And there has to be a purchase contract or Escrow instruction giving the Title co. instructions on how to prepare the documents.
the the Purchaser has to sign Escrow instructions and intial a copy of how the deed is going to look when recorded and said deed would clearly show the TIC ownerhsip and what % ownership was being allocated to each owner.
Seems strange with the amount of experince the Aussie investor has that they would not catch this,, I suppose a German or non english speaking investor could gloss over this.
There also seems to be the case of those selling LLC interest that purport to own a certain property only to find out later the LLC never owned the property… and I suppose the intial reason they set these up this way is to get around the anti flipping dates in the Deeds when they buy from certain government agencies. And or they are just crooks out to scam the buying public… Hard to chase these down when there is no asset behind the LLC.
Had not heard the one about Agents putting themselves on title.. I am assuming you mean they go on title as a tenant in common as to a disclosed % interest…
Seems to me agents could have a huge issue here and probably loose their license's if this is not a well thought out and agreed upon plan..
agreed nothing worse than mucking up your title with partners you do not know well, and or a bullit proof, Buy Sell agreement in the case of a dispute.
so from your perspective why would any US agent want to go on title unless they are setting up a whole scheme to be share ownership with a whole group of investors, and I suppose for the purpose of managing the asset
As we know this is very common in the world of REIT's and Large TIC's "tenent in common investments" not traditional at the single family level though
Its not a debt ratio its debt replacement based on a ratio.
Say you bought a property with 50% down and 50% debt… When you roll up or in the case of 1033 reverse exchange down or backward the same debt ratios need to be adhered to.
I only bring up Zillow as it seemed some were weighing thier buying decisions pretty heavily on automated systems.
First off were is it? If its an inner city Hood Ghetto property its not worth even a dollar.
If its in a 3rd or 4th tier little town that has little to no crime it could be worth exploring.
for instance I have some rentals in Kokomo indiana,, which is 45 mintues n of Indy… You can buy them for sub 10k usually put 15 to 20 into them… they will rent at 600 to 700… however rents can be alittle challenging there, as there is not a lot of work… but there is no crime to speak of and absolutly no Capital growth…:term cash flow play and I do not offer these to my investor group I just keep them myself.
Now that same house put it any market in the Mid west or east coast that is a big city, take your pick does not matter, memphis , Detroit Indy, Atlanta, Rochester, anything Ohio,,, St. Luis, Kc, fortwayne indiana, Toledo Atlanta etc etc.
And your buying a board up in the run down crime infested area no doubt…. YOu can buy the house and you can rehab it, the house within 5 years will no doubt look exactly how you just bought it…
The only people that can make a go of inner city rentals are the locals that do it for a living, being 6k miles from a low end rental in my mind is juts throwing your money away…Keep in mind these foreclosures are not coming from Owner occuppied they are coming from Landlords that got tired of throwing money down the rat hole…. There is no retail sales to home owners in these neighborhoods.. Anyone who can afford a home does not buy one in these price ranges and or locations.
Just go to this web site http://www.bid4assets.com or http://www.bidforassets.com they specialize in selling these super low end houses all accross the country… As well as you will see land Auctions from various counties across the country, they do most of CA counties land auctions and you will see some interesting items. there…. There was even a lake front developement Parcel on Clear Lake CA. just north of SF and wine country with a minimum bid of 800kkk I know that property well and for the right buyer that was a deal.
Its quite a sport really,,, there are those and you will see big sellers on this site that will pick up one of these homes for 500 bucks then put it up for 2 to 3k.. Never see it never touch it and make a few grand flipping them…
Other than those that play in this sand box most of the property sellers would probably advise you buy something more substantial and in better neighborhoods… You do get what you pay for in the US> by and large
And then theres another term us US investors call these low end homes and not to offend anyone but we call them
Sub prime mortgages took a Huge toll on the US consumer.. As well as a loan product called Pick a Payment.
This pick a payment went like this.
Borrower had choice of payments intially for the first 5 years then the loan reset. Also mortgage brokers made huge commissions on these loans in the form of YSP "yeild spread premiums" not uncommon for a Mortgage originator to make 2 to 4 points on a loan.. Thats right up there with hard money… 1% usually disclosed then the YSP that was a kick back from the investor buying the loan… This practice has been shut down by the fed by the by. So here ya go here is what a Pick a payment loan looked like.
Teaser or intial rate 2 to 3% interest
negative amortization payment Owe more than you borrowed over time ( don't ask me I did not invent this one)
market rate Payment at 5 or 6 % or so depending on what your note called for.
So the borrower gets qualifed for the loan on the teaser rate… And of course they only pay the minimum… 5 year balloon hits
and the payment doubles as interest rates move up to market rates… Borrower is in trouble as they cannot afford the new payment and they default.
This loan was really prevelant in places like CA. AZ NV FL GA……
Then you had just the plain jane sub prime… where borrowers paid far over market rate to just get a house.
Now you have literally millions of families that have lost homes and have been thrown into the rental pool… 'ergo strong rental demand… And not good enough credit to buy. Along with the other 50% of foreclosures mainly in the inner big cities of Landlords who have gotten tired of feeding their rentals and they walk away by the millions as well,,, perfect storm really.
5 years ago a sub prime borrower could have a 500 FICO and buy a house…. that went up to 620 FHA and in addition borrower did not have to have one thin dime of down payment…. Now with FHA borrower must put 3.5% down..
So there ya go a whole generation of americans that bought homes with crappy credit or were not smart enough to figure out what a teaser rate was.. Needed no down payment and they became homeowners…
So now it will take these that lost homes 3 years minimum to clean up credit then of course they actually have to save some down payment… And with so much US wealth ( like OZ) tied to property equity and with the values being crushed there ya go. huge % of Americans are years away from homeownership…. 5 to 7 year holding time for market and Americans to recover is prudent thinking in my mind.
JLH
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