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  • Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    Scamp wrote:
    ErikH wrote:
    Well… Rudd does speak fluent Mandarin, doesn't he?

    Back onto topic, I found the following article on housing prices quite interesting: http://www.realestate.com.au/doc/review/july08/housing-prices.htm

    Thanks , very interesting reading. It's nothing new but it's the first time banks agree that the housing market is overvalued. I posted this on GPHC.

    Hi Scamp, I tried to contact you by private message but it says you don`t accept messages.

    I`d love to have a chat with you, any way we can have it?

    Thanks

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    In teresting Scamp, I did not know about the 30,000 mortgages rate shift each month, that`s probably why Mr Smith (ANZ) is predicting a big increase in defaults.

    This will certainly push prices down much quicker. 

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    I would not blame too much the normal public when NOT EVEN the ANZ TOP MANAGERS could see the downturn coming as explained in this article by the ANZ Chief Mike Smith:

    http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,24100323-14334,00.html

    ANZ tips defaults to rise

    ANZ chief Mike Smith says loan defaults among home borrowers will rise as the job market faces pressure from a downturn in economic conditions.

    In a wide-ranging interview with BusinessDaily, the ANZ (anz.ASX:Quote,News) boss said he was worried about the direction of the Australian economy and its implications for banks and other lenders.

    "I worry about the general economy and I can't believe that arrears in mortgages and credit cards are not going to pick up," he said.

    "I don't think it will be as bad as what has happened in the US and the UK but this is a negative turn.

    "These are not happy, happy times."

    Mr Smith, who was speaking after Monday's shock disclosure of a $1.2 billion blowout for the bank in the September half, warned that mortgage stress was likely to rise in line with increasing unemployment.

    "The reason we haven't seen bad debts rise yet is because the unemployment rate remains pretty good," he said.

    "But the downturn is not going to create as many new jobs as more people come on to the market."

    Mr Smith said he could not rule out the prospect of more corporate failures this year as marginal businesses struggled to cope with rising costs.

    ANZ has felt the impact of sliding credit quality in the corporate sector more than other Australian banks as a result of its big exposures to troubled borrowers such as Centro, Opes Prime and Bill Express.

    "I can't say there is not going to be another large corporate failure in the market," he said. "Certainly, the watchlist is increasing across all sectors.

    "Commercial property is obviously vulnerable because when you have a slowdown in retail activity the effect will be felt in the commercial property space.

    "There has been highly speculative building in Queensland and Western Australia and they are most at risk."

    Mr Smith said he was concerned that some members of his management team had been slow to identify the shift in the economic cycle.

    "We have so many relationship managers and executives who have never seen a downturn," he said.

    "That is an issue because I've been a bit critical of some of the guys for not recognising the signs early enough."

    Mr Smith said regulators around the world were likely to impose pressure on banks to put aside more capital as global economic conditions deteriorated.

    "Hopefully, the regulators will wait until the global banking system is out of its hole because in the global market today capital is becoming a scarce resource."

    The announcement on Monday of another $1.2 billion in bad debt provisions has put the ANZ's acquisition plans in Asia on hold, but Mr Smith said the board was examining the long term possibility of raising equity through scrip issued on the Hong Kong or Singapore exchanges.

    On the prospect of ANZ pursuing a partial listing on an Asian exchange, Mr Smith said: "I don't rule it out, it is something we will continue to look at, but we have a lot on our plate and it would be distraction right now."

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    Ok guys, sorry for the "enjoy", I`m not a natiev English speaker and OFTEN I still do many language mistakes, I did not really mean to enjoy such a painful news.

    Anyway, I`m here to help and sharing news and share opinions.

    Like this other one:

    http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,25479,24043852-5013951,00.html

    Debunking housing myths

    By Ed Shann July 19, 2008 10:45am

    • Economist says house prices can and will fall
    • The number of unsold houses on the market is rising
    • International markets have already seen sharp price drops

    THERE are two housing myths worth debunking. The first is that house prices never fall. The second is that because underlying demand currently exceeds new supply, house prices will keep rising.

    Neither is true, Australian house prices can and will fall.

    US house price falls of 15.3 per cent over the past year get most publicity, but Irish and British house prices are also falling sharply.

    Ireland is down 9.5 per cent and Britain 8.7 per cent. Forecasters predict falls of 30 per cent in US and British house prices and 15 per cent in Ireland.

    New housing starts have halved in Ireland and dropped about 30 per cent in the US and Britain.

    ANZ economists claimed recently that Australian house prices have never fallen and there is no reason why they will. They are not historians. The house price series they use only starts in the mid-1960s.

    You may think house prices never fall because you have never experienced them. However, Australian house prices have fallen previously and house prices are falling overseas.

    Of course that does not necessarily mean Australian house prices will fall now, but there is no law of nature that says they cannot fall.

    The optimists argue that underlying annual demand for Australian housing is 180,000 units and new starts are only 150,000. They conclude that house prices are likely to rise.

    However, underlying demand is a theoretical concept using long-run trends in population growth and household formation. In practice, high house prices mean kids stay home longer, rather than buy new housing and students rent houses together rather than separately.

    Actual demand for new houses is currently below underlying demand.

    The house price surge was largely due to people bidding up prices of existing housing as interest rates fell and they could access funds more easily.

    The rise in interest rates and tightening credit standards reverses the incentive to trade up to better housing. Home loan approvals have dropped 23 per cent in four months, so demand is falling and rates are still rising.

    The number of new houses built does not determine supply. About 10 per cent of houses, or over 800,000 houses, are vacant at any time,  for example  holiday houses.

    Financial pressures push empty houses onto the market. Lower clearance rates mean the number of unsold houses is rising. Supply will rise further as share prices fall and unemployment rises, forcing sales of existing houses.

    Australia has rapid population growth and mining is boosting income growth. We did not have the large influx of new low-income house buyers that more lax US credit standards allowed. So while house prices may not fall as sharply here as overseas, they will still fall.

    Investors renting out houses will be squeezed by rising rates and realise capital losses are possible.

    Rents will rise and house prices fall until housing returns are comparable with other assets.

    That will improve housing affordability for first-home buyers and eventually stimulate the next upturn.

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    Enjoy:

    AUSTRALIA'S economy is looking even more fragile amid reports that some mortgage lenders are repossessing homes for defaults of as little as $1000.

    http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24078036-952,00.html

    .

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    devo76 wrote:
    ormeau wrote:

    Good to see you have debt "Mate". Take care.

    Actually you would think that if things did come to a grinding stop. Surely the existing built houses  around Australia would infact be worth even more  due to the crazy cost of new housing.
    Option 1#Nuclear power stations around australia powered by our own mining  resources feeding a power grid that  powers a country wide transport system. Thats plausible( I want nuclear power plants). So many options its crazy.Australia has what many countries want at the moment. This would be a good time to make the most of it and prepare for the next 50 years.
    2# Water from the north west of australia  during the wet to be  piped and irrigated south to  recapture the desert. This was laughed at many years ago but its looking more viable now.
    3# Get the aliens that built the pyramids to whip back over here and build some more infrastructure. They have been a bit slack lately.

    if you want NUCLEAR go to Chernobyl, the last few people still alive there have LOTS OF Cancer to share with you.

    I don`t want that rubbish in Australia, it`s already enough the mess depleted uranium tests are doing.

    God, I can`t believe how greed you people are. Anything to get money, you`d sell your own soul.

    I`m done with this forum, it`s pointless.

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    devo76 wrote:
    ItalianDragon wrote:
    devo76 wrote:
    This is crazy. I agree that change has to happen and is happening. But this mad max crap is a joke.Some people on this forum need to stop soaking up all the crap they get feed and look at all possible outcomes not just the worst. Do you really believe that there will not be a alternate energy source found in time that is viable. Its no secret the world is focused on money and that it drives the human race. There is no money in a world wide collapse of society so why would anyone let it happen.Get real.Yes oil will get dearer and eventually it will become so dear that alternat fuels must be used.Try watching some positive documentories about what is being discovered everyday. Some of the talk on here is sounds just like a cult leader convincing his followers of impending doom.Go for a walk on the beach,have a swim and chear up.Life is not about to come to a screaching holt.

    Hey SUNSHINE, do you have a degree in Engineering maybe?

    Because you should take some updates: to produce alternative energies yuo still NEED electricity which currently comes mainly from OIL.

    Just watch the video…….it`s less than a hour and will teach you something.

    Actually i am a engineer. I am also a realist.I completely understand that whatever takes us off our dependents on fossil fuel will in part require fossil fuel for its development. This is not a new understanding and can be said for many periods through our development as a species. The point im trying to make is. Yes there are some turbulant times ahead,yes nothing is certain,Yes changes have to be made.But i question the motives of people like you and your band of doom and gloomers. You clearly have a hidden agenda. This is clear to all that read your posts. Dont tell us you are trying to warn us. I dont buy it for a second.
    We are far from finished on this earth as your merry group of depressed trolls seem to believe.I believe things will roll on but not because of our will to change. I believe change will come through people making money with green energy. This is already starting to happen.Sad but true.But who cares about the motives as long as it happens.

    And if i get told to check out one more link i think im going to drown myself in a bucket of oil.Wow its on the net it must be true.

    But i do admit you do help people on here to a degree. You make them aware of things that may affect there investing in the future.Its up to the individual person to take all the information at hand and work from there.

    You know, I don`t have an agenda. And since I don`t even have TIME to waste warning blind people who think that just because property prices ros ein the past 10 or 20 years, then they will in the next 20 years.

    GO ahead, think and convince as more people yuo can to buy properties at 1 or 2 Millions each. I really don`t care anymore.

    I joined this forum few weeks ago while I was looking for info on the Victoria market since here in SA I think prices have gone already too far.

    I don`t have millions, I may not even be able to buy 1 little house if price keep being so inflated and certainly I`m not going to buy at inflated prices. I`ll rather rent and watch landlords go broke over their greed. Then eventually the Government will realise this system can`t work anymore and as a society will  start building house to live, not to become rick  quick at the expenses of the next generations while we build endless suburbs without infrastructures.

    You go ahead thinking it`s dreamland and everybody that buy will sell for double or triple.

    I end my posting in this forum right now, I hate wasting time.

    Good luck.

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    devo76 wrote:
    This is crazy. I agree that change has to happen and is happening. But this mad max crap is a joke.Some people on this forum need to stop soaking up all the crap they get feed and look at all possible outcomes not just the worst. Do you really believe that there will not be a alternate energy source found in time that is viable. Its no secret the world is focused on money and that it drives the human race. There is no money in a world wide collapse of society so why would anyone let it happen.Get real.Yes oil will get dearer and eventually it will become so dear that alternat fuels must be used.Try watching some positive documentories about what is being discovered everyday. Some of the talk on here is sounds just like a cult leader convincing his followers of impending doom.Go for a walk on the beach,have a swim and chear up.Life is not about to come to a screaching holt.

    Hey SUNSHINE, do you have a degree in Engineering maybe?

    Because you should take some updates: to produce alternative energies yuo still NEED electricity which currently comes mainly from OIL.

    Just watch the video…….it`s less than a hour and will teach you something.

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    This is one of the last desperate actions:

    Stressed borrowers taking in lodgers

    http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/money/story/0,26860,23951235-5015795,00.html

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    devo76 wrote:
    ormeau wrote:
    Oil is the key to doom guys, $143 record again. Watch it, and be afraid. War soon.

    Green energy is the key guys. Its happening. More oil discoveries soon anyway.Alternate  fuel as well. Everything will be fine.

    I think you should study a bit before to say incorrect things. Oil is ENDING and alternatiove energies require LOTS of time and LOTS of money to be build otherwise we were using them already. And even if we were starting NOW, we are already late of about 20 years. So for 20 years there will be lots of pain. Forget cars, forget crazy shopping…..let alone buying overinflated houses.

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    L.A Aussie wrote:
    Scamp wrote:
    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23947854-5007146,00.html

    A good summary of what's to come ( and what I posted 2 months ago ).

    What Mark has said in that article is very good advice.

    But it's also "commonsense 101".

    If people are struggling to repay their loans, and/or are about to convert to a variable rate after a long fixed rate, and see that they are going to struggle, then they have over-committed from day 1.

    Your predictions are correct Scamp – there will tears soon enough, but every single one of those people who will be affected only have themselves to blame.

    No one put a gun to their head and said "BUY!"

    So what's your point? What are we supposed to be doing based on that? There is nothing those people can do except sell for the best price they can get now. As always.

    I'm ok, so I'm not going to be selling – I'm going to be buying the shipwrecks.

    You are preaching to many of the converted here; we all know what's happening and we take steps to mitigate risks. That's all part of investing safely and successfully.

    Rather than just keep stating the obvious, give the forumites a few strategies that will teach them how to invest successfully in the times ahead.

    There will be simply a DOMINO effect.

    If a house in your street sells for $100,000 LESS then ALL houses in that street will lose value and then the next street will lose some value too and so on.

    Come on, how can you think that Australians will keep buying houses at 6X the average income while in the US and Canada they get it at 3X ?

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    yarpos wrote:
    the immigrants I work with from UK, Singapore, HK and Sth Africa are wealthier than me ,  they can do what they choose to do and arent struggling for 5 months let alone 5 years.   The situation isnt as black and white as you present,  some actually do come with millions…some with 5c.   You may not be seeing the effect in SA but it is significant elsewhere.

    Interesting position to take …. you dont agree with me so you are blind … sort of makes discussion pointless

    If you know few millionaires then it does not mean that the majority of new immigrants are rich.

    Show me some datas to prove me wrong, I can see and read facts.

    Thanks

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    yarpos wrote:
    "Australia is going to pay a high price in human lifes later.Hopefully people will realise this soon or when people will start to die from cancer due to the amount of radioactive dust spread across Australia during the transpor tof it."

    This has already been going on for decades in Australia and elsewhere.   Is there any evidence of this happening anywhere with reasonable work standards?  or do you think it will evolve like asbestos?  

    Try googling it and you should find lots on info. Start from wikipedia on uranium AND depleted uranium.

    As far as I remember in Portorico and in Japan the U.S. were kicked out in the recent years after new born babies were having too many leukemia and malformactions.

    Another good documentary on the subject is:  "Beyond Treason"  @ http://www.beyondtreason.com/

    This is another reason why I`d like to move OUT from SA.

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    An example were the nuclear tests of the 1960s in Maralinga (SA) by the British, where the radioactive clouds reached Sydney.

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    bardon wrote:

    How about investing in:

    uranium
    specialised oil and gas exploration equipment suppliers
    oil and gas service comapnies
    under capitalised uranium miners
    under capitalised precious metal miners
    small coal seam methane gas suppliers

    Uranium is highly RADIOACTIVE and if they do not stop messing with it in SA and NT, Australia is going to pay a high price in human lifes later.Hopefully people will realise this soon or when people will start to die from cancer due to the amount of radioactive dust spread across Australia during the transpor tof it.

    For more info you can check this site:

    http://www.bsharp.net.au/index.html

    There is a free short video that explains the issue. Then if you want to know more, you`ll need to get the documentary on DVD. It`s made by Australians.

    I`m currently looking to invest in OIL FUTURES but only LONG TERM ones since in the short term there may be excessive ups and downs. 

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    patriotsoldier wrote:
    I have read from several resources in regards to this topic of Peak oil, and while i dont debate that there will be ramifications I wonder if they will be quite this extreme. That is just a personal observation.

    I do have an agenda though for this post, given that you guys are obviously quite concerened about the current and future state of events………

    Knowledge is obviously key and If you genuinely believe this, you would be making plans. Whether they are investment plans or living options in the future, I would like to hear about them.

    Im not a sceptic, I am interested in knowing more. Trust me, you have all made your point and it has some of us investigating further, however on an Individual level, what do you plan to do?
    I understand we can blame governments for inaction and society for its dependence on fossil fuels but instead of playing the blame game….. maybe you have more to offer other than 'do not buy in the suburbs'

    For your consideration…..

    Hi, well I`m not in the position to invest since it will be already hard enough (with these interest rates and current inflated prizes) to purchase 1 home where to live with my wife.

    We were looking to buy as far as Aldinga which is about 45 KM from Adelaide CBD.

    After investigating all the issues including PEAK OIL, well I decided to hold a minute and think much better before to do a BIG mistake. From the time I was looking at a house till now (6 weeks) the price has dropped from $370,000 to $329,000 and still DOES NOT SELL.

    If a 230 sqm 4 beds 2 baths less than 12 months old home that looks like brand new, 1 KM from one of the best beaches in SA, does not sell after $40,000 reduction, then something tells me I`m doing the right thing to wait.

    The higher petrol prices go up, the lower hose prices are going in the suburbs especiallly where, like there, public transport is a pain.

    So, to answer your question: I`m simply waiting to see my options.

    Profile photo of ItalianDragonItalianDragon
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    Also too many times, I hear about the immigrants.

    From what I have seen I can guarantee you that only a very very small FRACTION of them is able to pay a LITTLE mortgage AFTER at least 5 years since they get in the country. For most of them the first 2 or 3 years are just a struggle and usually most of them come from poor countries. How can anybody expect that they have millions in their bags?

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    bardon wrote:
    ItalianDragon wrote:

    I think Australians are BLIND.

    Is this a general statement?

    Yes general, including some of my friends that share your same positive opinion on the future of Australian realestate.

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    yarpos wrote:
    there appears to be nothing else in the whole of human existence but oil,  and we are incapable of thinking about , designing and building alternatives while oil escalates.  We are such a miserable species, really we deserve extinction , especially us suburban ones.   Anyone got any ideas what we could do with the suburbs , once the millions have packed into the CBD?  recycled farmlands, massive sewerage farms, golf courses?   finally somewhere to put all that noisy stuff like car race tracks and rifle ranges.

    Well, in my opinion, the best solution is what the Governement is doing in France and Spain with the last housing developments. They DO NOT give the land to the private speculator and building companies but its the Government itself that first create the infrastructures such roads, water supply, wastewater, stormwater, power supply, flood management, recreational, and other assets and THEN build homes to be sold at affordable price, nothing like here that it`s at least 6 times the average income.

    Australia is the biggest paradox in the World because it has so much space and so planning a sustainable society that can leave the cars in the garage is possible but they just did not do it so far.

    And the later they leave, the more Australians will struggle with the future, day after day while the last oil is used.

    They should start NOW (which is already a bit late) to create from SCRATCH new cities, smaller than our mega cities, something like many cities of 100,000 or 200,000 people with jobs, medical facilities and everything that a society needs. And obviously the first things will be a good oil-free transport service that works possibly based on solar energy since nuclear is too dangerous and expensive and produces too much radioactive waste. Luckily in Australia we have lots of sunny days and if they start moving, we`ll make it without using horses, otherwise we`ll have to do what our grandfathers and grandmothers were doing. An energy crisis is ahead of us and I think we are getting hit badly soon. Also, don`t forget that world population is now about 6.5 BILLIONS and we shou;ld be about 9 BILLIONS already by 2050. If we don`t have enough oil now, what is going to happen then?

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    NZ House prices plummet by $80,000

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjzsjINqCk
     
    – 22 % sounds pretty reasonable to me.

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