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You're most welcome Dan!
I can't seem to go back and edit that bit about the ATO.
The explaination was for Qlds007 since one of his earlier statements seemed to imply Kevin has changed his name a few times. Or did I misread that?
And to make your day even brighter, Brad Pitt's name is actually William Pitt. Brad is his middle name, but it seems Brad Pitt is more marketable than Will Pitt.
Interesting sense of humour you have there
Dan42 wrote:This absolutely cracked me up. I'm actually thinking of chaging my name to Brad Pitt, to help me with the ladies.Interesting you mention "ladies" because a marketer by the name of Eban Pagan operates under the psuedonym "David Deangelo" to market his products and seminars focused on attracting women.
But more a famous example would the Trumps, I.e. Donald and his father Fredrick. Their family name was originally "Grump" but Fredrick changed the surname to "Trump" for the exact same reason Kevin change his to Young.
So while you may laugh some highly successful people use the name they believe will increase their level of success…
Dan42 wrote:Sure the ATO would be pleased to hear this form of marketingPersonally I don't care what pleases the ATO, so long as it's legal. I havent invested in property yet and I already offset all my tax. I intend to go through life paying as little tax as possible and I'll use negative gearing one day, providing its legal.
Anyway, negative gearing exists for the purpose of tax emption and the ATO would realise its necessary for Australia's ecconomy. As evidenced in the mid 80's after the Hawke/Keating government attempted to abolish it but reinstated it within 2 years after its removal did more harm than good.
Qlds007 wrote:Such evidence has been provided to the ASIC on a couple of ocassions.I've searched the ASIC website and only found two cases regarding a Joint Venture Scehme dating back to 2003. Here and here.
Is there anything more recent?
Qlds007 wrote:Ask Kevin Young or Sampe whatever name he is using these days when you meet him.He changed his surname to "Young" because it's a more marketable name than Sempe, but I suppose people without a marketing background wouldn't understand this. Nonetheless, both Kevin's sons retain the name Sempe and its not it something they're trying to cover up.
Qlds007 wrote:Simple reason they concentrate on units/townhouses etc and not freestanding dwelling is that the developers who pay them a nice fat commission (Trust me they have market over 100 of my properties over the last 13 years) will not do so on a single dwelling house..Like any business its usually more profitable to buy in bulk…
Qlds007 wrote:Also ask yourself why the yields tend to be lower, it wouldnt be that the purchase prices are inflated..TIC focuses on negative gearing strategies for tax offset purposes. If the properties were too positively geared the investor would be paying more income tax rather than less. But obviously it depends on the individual's objectives and personal situation as to whether the gearing should be positive or negative.
Qlds007 wrote:As a developer and also financier I see many valuations each week and know as a fact that many of the larger valuers simply will not value up to purchase price hence the reason why Club Loans suggest you cross collateralise securities and dont offer clients a copy of the valuation..Ok, now we might finally have some legitate concerns!
- Are you able to provide evidence to support the stagement about "larger valuers simply will not value up to purchase price"?
- TIC doesn't offer clients a copy of the valuation – even after the client asks for one do they still refuse?
Property Guru wrote:If you have not been to the annual conference, the one for 2010 is on the Gold Coast, you should try and get yourself there, then you will understand that it is a club, everyone is there helping others with issues, giving ideas about what they have done to get to the next stage etc…I don't need convincing that TIC is a club. My understanding of a club is an organisation which you become a member to receive benefits.
I also acknowledge that some clubs are non-profit organisations while others are commercial entities, so I don't think it matters if the people behind TIC are profiting from it. What is matter is they're delivering free education and services that costs thousands of dollars to receive elsewhere.
Property Guru wrote:That is why it is so good to buy TIC properties as you are protected far more than investing out there on your own.Also another common complaint seems to be TIC properties are over priced. From my understanding TIC only selects properties which are in demand, and when something is in demand its usually more expensive, but the advantage is the capital growth appreciates faster.
So it's better to have one $500,000 property doubling in value every 7 years than two $250,000 doubling every 10 years. Aside from taking longer to increase in value, with the $250,000 properties you'd be paying two sets of expenses.
Hi Property Guru,
Thanks for responding!
I've met Kevin Young before and will be meeting him again in a couple of weeks time at the annual social event my local support members throw each year.
My questions were aimed at those who disagree TIC is a club or those who have purchased through TIC and have had a negative experience. It seems only the people with positive TIC experiences shared their stories, meanwhile those with negative experiences either are steering clear or merely alluding to it.
In order to make an informed option I'll need to know the bad side, not just the good.
I’m in my twenties and not quite ready to invest in property but I’m putting in a solid effort to learn how it’s done and TIC stood out because it offers buyers umpteen free services. I’ve been to several TIC meetings but I’ve arrived at this forum as part of my due diligence. They seem great but having never bought a property through them I cannot write from experience.
diggerdigzit wrote:My gripe with them is i feel they misrepresent them selves as a club when plainly they are not. If they were a club, in the true sense of the word, they would pass on the profits to the members or lower the commissions they demand so they are not paying the same as everyone else. And the fact is other people outside of the club can negotiate with the developers, some will offer a cash back incentive at settlement to these people but make the contract price the same to keep it all nice and tidy. Fine, let the top echelon make all the money, but don't make a song and dance about how good they are to their members.Well what is a club in a true sense of the word?
Dictionary.com offers several definitions and TIC matches two of the definitions:
“A group of persons organized for a social, literary, athletic, political, or other purpose: They organized a computer club”
“An organization that offers its subscribers certain benefits, as discounts, bonuses, or interest, in return for regular purchases or payments: a book club; a record club; a Christmas club.”
Dictionary.com, "club," in Dictionary.com Unabridged. Source location: Random House, Inc. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/club. Available: http://dictionary.reference.com. Accessed: November 29, 2009.
I’ve been a member of various clubs, social, sporting, investing or otherwise. Some were free, some I had to pay for membership, but very few have shared profits with me! Sure the Woolworths Frequent Shopper Club gives me a measly $20 voucher sometimes but that’s just a clever promotion to ensure I spend more money at Woolworths, not really a helpful benefit.
Like most clubs TIC uses some of their profits fund all the services they provide, according to this webpage they provide quite a lot freely to members: http://www.propertyiinvest.com/tic
I was lead believe those services was how TIC passed profits onto members, obviously not in the form of money so silly me… Meanwhile there are organizations in Australia and around the world charging their members thousands of dollars for similar services.
As for developers, their properties get exposure to a highly targeted list of interested investors and thus increase the probability of selling properties faster. I'm not a developer so I cannot substantiate whether this is accurate or beneficial to them. As for the average person selling their property through TIC, my support members advise them to go to a normal real estate agent because TIC works for the buyer, not so much for the seller – unless the seller got has dozen of properties.
Should the people who run TIC provide their time and labour and not expect anything in return?
I won’t deny I’m biased towards TIC, perhaps attending all those workshops has brainwashed me but it seems if all organizations provided that much for free and still made a profit the world would surely be a better place? I’d love a bank or telco the equivalent of TIC.
So have I been I totally misguided by TIC? And for those who say "TIC is good but not the best" please tell me who is the best…
