“Hellman I’m thinking this is not in Australia”

It’s very similar to something I’ve just done in Aust.

Hellman

Dog_tooth,
Pre nups are legal in Aust (form a article), with te words from a lawyer:

Prenups have been legally binding only since December 2000, they are largely untested in the courts.

To make sure they are watertight, all assets must be disclosed and both parties need to take independent legal advice.

Prenups don’t affect the rights of children to child support, and the Family Court can overturn them if there is evidence of fraud or unconscionable conduct.

&

Prenuptial agreements, or what lawyers prefer to call “binding financial agreements before marriage”, have only been legally binding since December 2000, when the Family Law Act was amended to include them.

Prenups come under federal jurisdiction, but similar agreements for de facto couples have been recognised by all states since 1984.

Robert Benjamin, chairman of the NSW Law Society Family Law Committee, says that although there are no empirical studies, there is anecdotal evidence that the number of binding financial agreements is steadily increasing.

hellman

ilearner,

Heres a little story. I knew some people who were offered a wrap for a place they rented back in the 1986. It was in a suburb called Newport in NSW.

They declined (although it was a good price).

Just recently the house sold for $1.65 Million.
Let me repeat that $1.65 MILLION.

Yes the price was a tad high compared to other houses and yes the intrest rate was three percent higher. But in that 20yr period has risen (from the orignal pirce) 700%. Meaning a return of 35% per yr.

Yes waps are so bad…. they could of given this a family a home, stability and security. Instead this family have never owned a property and have lived in rented properties with little stability for ever (they still live in rental properties).
Now this faimily has basically no assets.

It is uninformed opinons, ilearner, that have more than hindered and certainly not helped. There are more than enough success stories regarding wraps to show that they can help a number of people who would not get finance from a bank (or the interest rate would be higher than a wrap).

Hellman

Thanks to KenKoh2000 & meilin08 for their insights.

I don’t have much to say except that I was listening to one of the most famous RE apartment sellers in the World, Donald Trump, when he said something that I could relate back here.

He basically said that luxury apartments are a specialised market that can have very high growth rates. Supply of Luxury housing in general is one of the most important things that can effect the price (although buildings that are seen as ultra luxury/exclusive do tend to get higher prices (even if they are similar to other high end buildings – thats why Donald Trump does alot of publicity, his luxury buildings sell for higher than other luxury buildings of the same standard because of the Trump brand)). High prices tend to come in waves. Right now he’s seeing Arabs from the Middle East (apparently Saudi made $165Bn this yr). Before that, was wealthy Chinese, then rich Americans (tech boom) then wealthy Russians (not too many) and wealthy Asians.

Because it is a specialised market prices tend to be different than regular apartments/houses. And during booms prices can jump massively but during the down times luxury apartments tend to just sit empty with no buyers and few renters. Many of the people who buy them however don’t really care that much. Many of them have a cashcow (either CEO job or other assets (companies, etc)) and so it’s all about stashing their wealth some where they are going to get high CG. As CEOs and biz owners tend to make millions and while their is easy money (which has to do with credit as well as investor attitudes) these apartments tend to rise in price (in some ways based on the theory of the greater fool). One of Trumps big buyers at this moment (in terms of volume of sales) is buying apartments all cash because he sold his biz for something like $120M. When it’s money like that rational can go out the window to a large degree.

Hellman

It means that an investment canly only have 20 investors before a prospectus must be issued as well as not raising more than $2Mil for the first 12 months.

Hellman

?????

Please Explain

????

Hellman

Usually I have found most ‘professional’ investors (full time investors) have a company as the truste of the either a Hybrid trust or a Discretionary trust.

Hellman

Cata is right.

In the end in my opinon it just comes down to doing what is right. As an example have a look at Rupert Murdoch with the settlement he had with his wife.

Instead of going to court (and yes the Family Court could split the shareholding on News Ltd/Fox apart) they decided to form a trust for the kids. Of course she is supported forever (which is what should happen) but in the end it’s going to go to the Kids. This way every party gets what they want. This is a very good outcome and in my mind thats how it should be done.

Hellman

I with Cata on this one. Locking your money away until you are 55+, with the Gov. changing the laws every single year (for example the Gov. just bringing in TAP’s, which is causing much confusion and headaches for investors), is in my mind not that great a deal unless you were making some spectacular return Or you could pull it out and invest into further RE purchases (i.e. setting up company and selling shares to the super fund, super fund gives company money to buy property) But then theres running the damn thing (paperwork, accountant fees, etc) and that costs money (so probably not worth setting up a new stax structure to save say $14K unless it was going to become a real part of your strategy and you were going to do multiple times over).

If you do decide to do it, I would recommend an index fund (like Vanguard for example) as they beat around about 80% of the so called experts year in, year out (their ratio rises to something like 90%+ over 5yrs). Fees are also very low too, and it’s rather liquid.

Hellman

If you can buy at enough of a discount then renovation can still be way to make money. But it would probably be through equity (as buyers are demanding $$$ off before they commit).

Also on small projects (say sub $400K mark) not overcapitalising is very important. As there is not as much margin and your buyers are acting on price to a degree (well at least in CBD/metro/suburban areas).

Hellman