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  • Profile photo of GoodProbsGoodProbs
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    @goodprobs
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 6

    So Terry, starting with the end in mind, a good portfolio strategy would be:

    Put the property with expected highest $ value (not rate) of capital growth in personal name and make it the PPOR for maximum benefit (even if only nominally via 6 year rule).
    Put IPs in personal names so long as there is taxable income to offset and you are within the land tax exemption thresholds.
    Put IPs in trusts when there is limited personal taxable income to offset or when you can offset negatively geared property losses with other trust income.
    Consider multiple trusts to segregate portfolio for asset protection and for additional land tax thresholds.
    Consider borrowing arrangements with trusts to provide asset protection for the properties held in personal names.
    As long a serviceability is OK, no problem to put PPOR in name of lowest income/lowest risk partner, because the burden of deductible borrowings can easily be shifted through loans @ LOC rate (0% margin).

    Profile photo of GoodProbsGoodProbs
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    @goodprobs
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    To terryw, I can see that the CG exemption can be a huge benefit but many of the books I’ve read pitch the “never sell” idea as the answer to avoiding capital gains tax on IPs. If we’re not planning to sell anytime soon is there any benefit to be had in putting the property in a trust and claiming the deductions of a normal IP, building a carry-forwardable loss, and allowing distribution of future capital gains? I understand we can do this provided we rent the property from the trust at a commercial rate.)

    In answer to your query Richard, Brisbane’s inner west is where we are now and would prefer to stay. I guess the sensible financial approach is to chase the best capital growth we can while meeting our other requirements so that may dictate our choice of suburb to some extent. I note from an article on your website that you’ve got some experience in the area – any ideas on that front?.

    To aussieguy2000, I know what you are saying about keeping the money available – if we needed to pull the pin our exit strategy would be to move out, switch the property to a pure investment, and negotiate some sort of nominal split with the in-laws. Does a LOC make this harder to do than would an offset account or does it work out basically the same?

    I appreciate everyone’s feedback on the loan structuring – let me repeat what I understand:
    * Borrow at 80% LVR, with a split between a LOC and an interest only loan 100% offset account
    * Use the offset as our non-deductible personal savings / transactional account
    * Use the LOC as our tax-deductible credit card for investment spending, capitalising interest if need be
    * To start, we’d set the split based on the amount of contributed equity so for a $1M property with $800K cash you’d end up with a $600K LOC and a $200K IO Loan with offset (and $200K equity to keep the bank happy).

    Am I on the right track?

    I gather it’s pretty easy/cheap to swap offset balance for increased LOC limit if we want to, but that moving in the other direction may be fraught with unpleasant tax implications? Or does it not matter because the accounts are still considered separate?

    Any there any significant additional costs / margins involved in setting up a facility as flexible as this?

    Profile photo of GoodProbsGoodProbs
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    @goodprobs
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    Just realised that the above figures don’t account for the cash associated with our own equity contribution to the purchase.

    So, for example, if we have contributed $100K in addition to taking on the 300K loan then the actual cost to purchase the ~$54K yield is $100K + $10K pa.

    Profile photo of GoodProbsGoodProbs
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    @goodprobs
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    Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your input.

    So what I’m getting is that with an investment hat on I should be thinking about it something like this:

    * Non-deductible interest charges are bad, but no worse than paying rent
    * Any outgoings in excess of current rent payments in this situation are essentially for the purpose of purchasing tax-free equity growth
    * To evaluate the value of this it needs to be compared to any other investment made with after-tax money
    * Separate to that we would also be receiving a gift of equity which we can leverage to make other investments

    What is a sensible estimate for rates + maintenance + body corp + insurance for a property of this value? I suppose it depends on lots of factors, but would $10K be a reasonable ball-park estimate?

    If so, Scenario B above could be thought of as a highly leveraged $10K investment yielding ~$54K (~6% on $900K) tax-free equity and no income.

    (A 440% return does, of course, make it sound like a very good deal.)

    Have I got that right?

    Profile photo of GoodProbsGoodProbs
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    @goodprobs
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    Hi Kinnon,

    I know what you mean re the inter-personal dimensions, and that’s not something I’m dismissing at all – the two of us would need to ensure that we’re comfortable with that before we decide to proceed.

    But I guess what I’m really asking you guys about is more the financial aspects of such a proposal. A couple of hypotheticals in the range of possibilities:

    Scenario A: $0 Loan required, $1M property
    Nice property to live in, we save $21K pa in rent
    We pay holding costs / body corp fees (which should be no greater than rent savings right? If so, CF+ for us)
    Asset with untapped equity to invest if we want to (80% LVR on $1M -> $800K) any equity we contributed would be accessible
    Also get benefits of CG on $1M with no tax payable on PPOR (which should at least match inflation right?)

    Scenario B: $300K Loan required, $900K property
    Nice property to live in, we save $21K pa in rent
    Using pessimistic rate assumption, IO on $300K @ 7% is $21K which exactly cancels out our rent saving
    We pay holding costs / body corp fees (into CF- territory now)
    Asset with untapped equity to invest if we want to (80% LVR on $900K -> $720K-$300K=$420K)
    Also get benefits of CG on $900K with no tax payable on PPOR

    While we *would* appreciate living in a nicer place, for the sake of the exercise I’d do the sums on the assumption there is zero “lifestyle benefit” to us in moving.

    Even with that assumption, I don’t know how you would start in calculating an effective rate of return?

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