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  • Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    @freckle
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    Nigel Kibel wrote:
    The thing to keep in mind is that one of the main reasons that the economy is flat is due to the lack of finance.

    There's enough finance around if you can meet requirements however there's no demand in the system to justify expanding. JPM has a bank full of money and no one to lend it to. Click the graphic for the article.

    Quote:
    If you are running a business and no one will lend you money it makes it very difficult to expand and hire staff.  However money is starting to flow again and we are seeing demand starting  to improve.

    You need to read these two reports/presentation because you don't appear to understand the US mortgage and finance market. 

    http://www.aei.org/files/2013/04/08/-whalen-presentation-bubble-bubble_141325940605.pdf

    http://www.aei.org/files/2013/04/08/-brinkmann-presentation-bubble-bubble_141240680914.pdf

    Quote:
    No one is suggesting that they economy is booming, however the time to enter a market is when it is at the bottom with signs of improvement. One sign is that you can get a 60% lend on quality properties as a foreign national through commercial banks.

    No it's not booming but you are suggesting it has bottomed and is recovering. There is an overwhelming pool of data that contradicts that position.

    Quote:
    Now i am not asking anyone to follow us blindly. I suggest that you due your own due diligence go over have a look and make up your own mind. i believe that there are great opportunities in the united states. I still believe that Apartment complexes make a safer investment than office or retail. However there are always exceptional deals.

    The problem with your assumptions is that your time frame is now. I'm looking 3, 5, 10 years down the track as most investors do.

    Quote:
    I think that the nature of retail is changing, with far more people now buying on line. But when you go to the states the shops are always full of people.

    Online retail accounts for 8% of retails sales. 2014 projections suggest 10%. Shops full of people means very little. It could mean all those unemployed people are hangin' out the mall for something to do.

    US Retail Sales is at a current level of 372.73B, down from 374.89B last month. This represents a monthly annualized growth rate of -6.90%, compared to a long term average annualized growth rate of 4.47%.

    Quote:
    Assess these opportunities for yourself, still great opportunities in Australia. However if you are selective on what you buy and work with the right people on the ground then you can invest successfully.

    Broad sweeping statements again.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    John-USA-CommercialRE wrote:
    Freckle, I'm impressed that you personally are so intrigued by absolutely everything I post.  I truly feel you add a nice balance to any positive data that is posted related to the United States.  As any wise person would know, there is two sides to almost everything to include real estate and the economy.

    Sure there's 2 sides. You take a position but fail to support it with anything other than MSM comment and advertorials of questionable merit. I could play either side of this coin but in these threads I'm the Devils advocate.

    Quote:
    I picture you as a person who sits at home all day with no job and is totally obsessed with the internet while you blame everyone else in your life and the world for why life has treated you so unfairly.  But, I could be totally wrong; either way who cares.

    Being semi retired affords some of us that luxury. When I do work it's because I want to or like to. I'm in a transitionary stage at the moment as I wait for some scheduled surgery (on the 18 Apr). That'll see me much more physically able again. I (we) will be heading back to NZ around mid Jun and for some time we will be motor homing around NZ until something else takes my fancy.

    Quote:
    After this post I plan to totally ignore any further post or comments that come from you.

    LOL.. I thought that's what you had been doing anyway. 

    Quote:
    But what I will say prior to that is I have challenged you in the past for evidence of your personal dealings here in the USA be it good or bad.  Because coming from someone like you; should you ever have invested one dollar in this country knowing as much as you do you must be the next Warren Buffet by now.

    You've never challenged me on anything. Well nothing I'd call a challenge. When I was 20 I had a fairly serious back injury. An orthopedic surgeon I was under wanted to do some fairly radical surgery with a 50/50 outcome. I took some advice from a non surgeon, slowly recovered over the space of 2 years and haven't looked back. That taught me that the so called experts, especially those with a professional or pecuniary interest will almost always give advice more suited to their egos and pocket than my best interests. I made it a point from that time on that if I was to listen to anyone proffering advice purportedly in my or someone elses best interest then I'd better make sure I understood the issues and that testing their competency should be part of the DD process.

    Quote:
    I know, I'm just being a smart ass with you but REALLY????  Seriously Freckle, if you can please keep posting 3 to 4 times as much as I do with regards to everything I say; you will help my conversation traffic.  What I'm saying is that since I have a career and responsibility and that makes it more difficult for me to set on this computer all day and night; that by you always being so infatuated with me you totally boost my post by drawing so much attention.  I love it; keep going my friend.

    Not a problem. Glad to help as always

    Quote:
    Now on a more useful means of my time:

    An new 1 million square feet of distribution operation could be coming to Jacksonville.

    The City of Jacksonville is seeking permits from the St. Johns Water Management District for 400,000 and 600,000 square foot warehouse and distribution centers for an unnamed company at Cecil Commerce Center, according to an April 2 permit application.

    The proposed facility would be on a 102-acre site near the intersection of Normandy Boulevard and 103rd Street and runs along Alcoy Road. Look at the map below to see the parcel inside the green line.

    The unnamed company could be FedEx Ground Shipping Services or Amazon.com, both of which are scoping out Florida for distribution centers.

    Sounds fascinating. You must be very excited. 

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Shopping malls are literally anchored by large retail chain stores. They can't survive without them in most cases. These large retailers are the key to attracting a host of peripheral small businesses to add diversification and interest to a mall complex.

    What the big guys do and how they perform economically is a key aspect of any future outlook. So lets have a look at just a few.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/eight-retailers-that-will-close-the-most-stores-173320796.html?page=2

    Best Buy

    > Forecast store closings: 200 to 250

    > Number of U.S. stores:1,056

    > One-year stock performance: -36.8%

    Sears Holding Corp.

    > Forecast store closings: Kmart 175 to 225, Sears 100 to 125

    > Number of U.S. stores: 2,118

    > One-year stock performance: 8.8%

    J.C. Penney

    > Forecast store closings: 300 to 350

    > Number of U.S. stores: 1,100

    > One-year stock performance: -53.6%

    Office Depot

    > Forecast store closings: 125 to 150

    > Number of U.S. stores: 1,114

    > One-year stock performance: 50.7%

    Barnes & Noble

    > Forecast store closings: 190 to 240, per company comments

    > Number of U.S. stores: 689

    > One-year stock performance: 8.95%

    Gamestop

    > Forecast store closings: 500 to 600

    > Number of U.S. stores: 4,471

    > One-year stock performance: -2.2%

    OfficeMax

    > Forecast store closings: 150 to 175

    > Number of U.S. stores: 872

    > One-year stock performance: 80.8%

    RadioShack

    > Forecast store closings: 450 to 550

    > Number of U.S. stores: 4,412

    > One-year stock performance: -68.1%

    • Blockbuster recently announced that this year they will be closing about 300 stores and eliminating about 3,000 jobs.

    That's conservatively around 2300 stores…. I wouldn't touch a shopping mall with someone elses money.

    These guys have huge buying power and massive efficiencies in scale but they're all struggling with a consumer who has no spending power. It's a trend that's been happening for a decade or more. It's a powerful indicator of commercial activity. Nothing survives long without a consumer at the other end.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Building has gone back to contraction according to GS. More commercial activity on the back foot.

    • Despite the market knowing better, the so-called housing recovery has hit a speed-bump (or brick-wall). Goldman's housing swirlogram shows that the revisions from an exuberant few months into January 2013 have dragged the reality of the 'recovery' rotating into full-blown 'expansion' to a crumble back into 'contraction'. Of course, we have seen homebuilder stocks exuberant like this before in the face of disappointing facts, but even the NAHB (desperate to portray confidence) is 'admitting' things are not as rosy as all-time highs in stocks might suggest.

    From hopeful January to 'revised' contractionary March…

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    I have no idea what's going to drive this CRE market you speak of. Business doesn't seem like it's in the mood to foster your growth message.

    The National Federation of Independent Businesses (NFIB) shows 0% of their members planning to hire. One can only presume we need moar QE, moar deficits, and moar wealth effect.

    Recovery? 0%!!

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    More self interested industry gobbledy gook backstopped by fudged government figures and bought economists. 

    Quote:
    panel of economists, which predicts gross domestic product (GDP) to rise by 2% this year, 3% in 2014 and 3.1% in 2015.

    Lets try some actual data.  Note that if we use the old CPI deflator for GDP then growth is actually negative. But govt's change this to suit their economic message. See next graph for CPI

    Quote:
    Economists expect the Consumer Price Index (CPI) to increase 2% this year, rising to 2.5% and 2.9% in 2014 and 2015

    Just about everyone who's awake knows the US govt CPI figures are rubbish. 

    I can't be bothered critiquing the rest. It's rubbish. More holes than my old socks.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Nigel Kibel wrote:
     fact that I deal in these markets does not make me wrong.

    No it doesn't. The problem is you can't support your assertions which begs the question, "Are their assumptions correct and valid?"

    Having a look, local MSM advertorials and the fact you live or have lived there do not inspire me with confidence when you can't even argue effectively in support of your chosen locations or market segments.

    For someone who promotes a property know how club I would expect a far better communicator with far greater depth of knowledge. To date I haven't seen anything that suggests you know much more than the local RE agent and what you read in the papers. You may have a range of technical skills but your broader knowledge base comes across as substantially lacking. Your posts are simply a collection of broad sweeping statements that don't help to inform or clarify.

    Your partner has started this thread with the lead in sentence;

    I would like to begin some discussion as to WHY Commercial Real Estate (CRE) and WHY America

    I can only reply, indeed why? I hope you guys can expand on this conversation but previous discussions haven't made us any the wiser as to WHY anyone would want to invest in the US. I'm fascinated to know what your reasons are beyond having a look and MSM articles.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Nigel Kibel wrote:
    I am wondering if you have ever been to the United States. People still need somewhere to live, they still need to buy food. 

    The fact is when you go to America they like to shop and they like to eat

    If you spent any time in America especially in Texas or Florida you would see that things are really not that bad. I am not saying that things are back to normal but it depends on where you are. Cities like Detroit are broke, however you could not say that about Orlando or San Antonio.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Nigel Kibel wrote:
    Try going to America and see how many people are in shopping Centre. However you do need to be selective. We are not suggesting that you should buy anything.

    If you are looking at commercial then you need to look at assets that have A grade tenants. I remember in Australia back in 1990 people who brought warehouses and cheap commercial property lost money. Commercial properties can also include apartment complexes currently the occupancy rate in around 95%. We are not asking that anyone blindly buys in America. However with care and due diligence there are some great opportunities available.

    If our discussions in the past suggest anything it's that you guys believe a visual check over combined with local media reports are somehow tantamount to opportunity. When ever I ask for something substantive to back your position all I get is, "I should go and look for myself. "

    So what is your cunning plan….

    Blackadder:     Baldrick, what are you doing out there?

    Baldrick:       I'm carving something on this bullet sir.

    Blackadder:     What are you carving?

    Baldrick:       I'm carving "Baldrick", sir.

    Blackadder:     Why?

    Baldrick:       It's a cunning plan actually.

    Blackadder:     Of course it is.

    Baldrick:       You see, you know they say that somewhere there's a bullet

                    with your name on it?

    Blackadder:     Yes?

    Baldrick:       Well, I thought if I owned the bullet with my name on it,

                    I'd never get hit by it, 'cos I won't ever shoot myself.

    Blackadder:     Oh, shame.

    Baldrick:       And, the chances of there being two bullets with my name

                    on them are very small indeed.

    Blackadder:     That's not the only thing around here that's "very small

                    indeed". Your brain for example, is so minute, Baldrick,

                    that if a hungry cannibal cracked your head open there

                    wouldn't be enough inside to cover a small water-biscuit.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    John USA wrote:
    The slowly improving labor market and little competition from new shopping centers is allowing retail landlords to benefit. In February, the jobless rate dropped 7.7 percent, the lowest since December 2008, from 7.9 percent the previous month, according to the Labor Department.

    It's bad enough that the govt manipulates the figures. It's understandable that back pocket MSM outlets propagandise this information to comfort the sheeple. But when individuals who claim to be intelligent, knowledgeable and ethical republish it as if it really really true …. …well that just leaves me scratching my head.

    Yes the government really does tell the truth

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    So here's some real bully on employment that's really easy to understand. 

    Of those considered to be working age who are either not counted as looking for work for benefit purposed and those officially listed as unemployed where added together we get approximately 101 million people.

    That's right….. 101 million people!!!!          Whats that about 30% of the US population.

    The most accurate and unfudged assessment of US employment is the US labor force participation rate. It tells a whole different story.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    The 400 or so dead malls are listed here with some history

    http://deadmalls.com/index.html

    The Death of the American Mall and the Rebirth of Public Space

    By Robbie Moore

    TUESDAY FEBRUARY 26, 2013

    • A recent article in the Financial Times suggests that 15% of America’s regional malls will fail in the next five years. “The mall’s 50-year reign as the ultimate shopping destination appears to be coming to an end,” claims a report by the CoStar Group, a real estate analysis firm.

      Many are failing despite significant state subsidies. A local government report found that in the St Louis metro area alone, $4.6 billion has been spent in the last 20 years subsidizing chain stores and malls,

    • In 2007, a year before the crash, no new malls were built in America, for the first time in 50 years. A mall in Salt Lake City which opened in March 2012 was the first to be built since then. New Jersey’s ambitious $4 billion Xanadu mall and indoor ski slope – now re-financed and re-named the American Dream Meadowlands – still languishes, half-built. According to the New York Times, the American Dream, which was conceived before the crash, has struggled despite receiving upwards of $1 billion in the form of tax write-offs, free land and a highway connection from the state of New Jersey.

    Demand for space in U.S. strip malls still weak in first quarter

    By Ilaina Jonas | Reuters – Thu, Apr 4, 2013

    • The total square feet of U.S. neighborhood strip centers – shopping centers typically anchored by grocery stores or drug stores – rose by only 0.04 percent, or 873,000 square feet, in the first quarter, according to preliminary figures.

      It was the fourth-lowest amount of space added since Reis began tracking the sector in 1999. The rise was smaller than the 1.231 million square feet added in the fourth quarter and was less than half the amount added a year ago.

      The small amount of space added helped offset an anemic demand for space. Retailers soaked up only a net 2.726 million square feet of space, about the same as the prior quarter but down from a year earlier.

    From Calculated Risk Blog

    [Strip Malls] Yet again, vacancy declined by only 10 bps during the first quarter. Although it is welcome that vacancy continues to decline on an almost quarterly basis, there is still no acceleration in vacancy compression. On a year‐over‐year basis, the vacancy rate declined by only 30 bps. Net absorption continues to outpace new construction, marginally pushing vacancy rates downward. With only 873,000 square feet delivered, even moderate demand for space would result in meaningful declines in the national vacancy rate. Yet despite the dearth of new completions, demand remains insufficient to make a meaningful dent in what is still an elevated vacancy rate..

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    Jpcashflow wrote:
    I work for a large shipping line and volumes have decreased, in fact four other shipping lines are co loading with us just to keep a float.

    These 4 shipping lines are considered the big Mammas of China and they are quiet, So we share our vessels which isnt a bad thing for us :)

    BDI's taken a pasting over the last few years that's for sure. Germans have been bailing out some of their banks heavily into shipping. Shipping lines going bust left right and center. The big consumer binge is over I'm afraid. Now it remains to be seen how they mitigate all the debt overhang.

    Quote:
    But sure tradies and other business are busy,  This is true, but the key question is how many business are actually get paid? allot of people spend more time chasing the money then acutally making the money.

    I think busy is an overstatement. The vast majority are struggling. The payment question is a good point. The domino affect can be extremely damaging. Like ripples in a pond.

    The successful businesses tend to be those that have been around a while, have strong balance sheets, have developed extensive networks but more importantly have strong relationships that underpin workflow. Networks provide opportunity or exposure to business activity. Balance sheets enable a stronger competitive position and relationships usually mean preferential treatment.

     

    Quote:
    Me personally all this gloom and doom provides every one with a opportunity.  When things get tight the following happens:

    1) really good workers or business people will either thrive or at least survive in these conditions

    2) The lazy will struggle and not make it

    To a point. When you have major economic resets 99% feel some negative effect. The difference is those who have enough assets to survive with something to rebuild with. It becomes less about opportunity and more about harboring wealth to take advantage of opportunities after a correction.

    Quote:
    Nigel and I had a great conversation about this topic on the weekend and he made a really good valid point.

    When where in a BOOM allot of people wants to be a real estate agent or mortage broker "etc" because they feel like its easy money, and when your in a boom you dont need to work as hard for your money.

    The 'band wagon' or 'gold rush' affect. Everyone wants to get on. It's less about effort and more about greed as a motivator.

    Quote:
    But when things get tight, allot of people just struggle, A friend of mine is making more money in selling houses now then he did in a the boom times, he basically said less agents on the street = less compition

    This is where circumstance filters the better players/performers. It's like an endurance race. You soon see who are the stronger more capable players 

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    Nigel Kibel wrote:
    With finance becoming more readily available in the United States it a good sign that the economy is improving. 

    Finance has always been available it just hasn't been as accessible due to higher qualifying criteria. The US govt has pushed the bar back down to subprime levels again so when the next GFC arrives we'll all get another go on the US boom bust merry-go-round.

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    If you could find some fundamentals to support the uplift then fine but they are sadly lacking so that leaves sentiment which is often fleeting. It's a market more suited to flippers and developers if you can get from wo to go in under 18 months. I'm wary of markets supported by sentiment, They tend to fall faster than they rise.

    The stars appear to be aligning for another round of GFC madness but on a much grander scale this time. I don't see us being as lucky as we were the last time. 

    For me I see Japan as our worst nightmare. Japan provides a huge amount of financing and liquidity in to SE Asian emerging economies. They along with China and S Korea soak up 48% of our exports. Japan's currency moves are a direct move against S Korea and Taiwan competitors so they're forced to join the currency war to stay in touch. That's making our exports in Yen and Won look extremely expensive. China's a whole other story but things are going from bad to worse there at the moment. 

    Vic is a manufacturing export lead economy for the most part so it's likely to cop the worst of the BS going on globally. Couple that with a decade of over building especially in units and I'm struggling to see Vic as an opportunity at this point in time. 

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    We are talking in generalisations because you haven't provided specifics.

    7 – 8% gross yield is around break even and anything less you are on a hiding to nothing. If you can't find them you are either looking in the wrong places or your methodology needs tweaking or both. Over time you can develop a nose for good performers. It can take a little while to get the hang of this skill. It's one of the most asked questions, "Where do I find CF+ properties that offer CG growth?"

    A reno recovers your entry exit costs for the most part upfront. You get to start off at a neutral point rather than a negative one and hope to recoup costs over time. It is helpful but not essential to a viable investment. Don't let that factor inhibit your geographical range.

    If you can't find properties with 8%+ yield locally then that suggests problems with the area.

    High CG increases over short periods are a red flag. It usually signifies a market driven by sentiment not fundamentals. Fundamentals are long term characteristics that underpin long term investments. Sentiment comes and goes like the weather. Beware of areas that have seen rapid revaluations. They almost always correct to the downside or trend line after a peak. The challenge is to find areas that are entering the growth phase. Urban renewal is generally a good sign this is occurring.

    Beware of Port Kembla. It helps anchor economic activity but does little to drive it higher. It's always been in a constant state of change but growth has been minimal on average. It's a cargo port  in the main and given increases in automation does little to foster employment in the area. If anything higher heavy traffic flows will have a negative impact on some areas.

    The wider economic picture for the Illawara is slightly negative given the 3 primary employment hubs, Port, Uni and Health are likely to see either budget constraints or volume falls as the global economic challenges put pressure on exporters and government funded service providers.

    Anyone with a few dollars can be an investor but very few turn out to be very successful investors over the long haul. Only a tiny percentage of investors own more than 5 properties. These are challenging times even for the experienced guys who've built fairly substantial wealth over the last 2 decades. Most will have put significant effort into fortifying their balance sheets in the last 2 years. As a newby investing in these times is difficult because your learning the old paradigm of investing when times where idiot proof. You will have to raise your benchmarks to account for risk and take DD to a new level if you're to have any chance of getting up more than just a few rungs on the wealth ladder.

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    US$22 at Alibaba or Y2185. You could make a bundle on these at the rate the yen is plunging. It's called an appreciating asset in Yen terms anyway.  I'm led to believe they come in handy when transporting large amounts of cash. 

    This is the high capacity version the Germans invented. You have to bundle and band your paper though.

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    jmsrachel wrote:
    Freckle wrote:
    Sold an aircraft engine to a guy over that way who builds horse stables. 2 years work ahead of him. Go figure.

    How did you come to own an aircraft engine??

    Used to have an aircraft. Bit a low flying around Manilya a few years back

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    Newman is probably the safest of all the WA mining towns simply because its the regional logistics and servicing hub. From a mining perspective activity will continue but construction and expansions will scale back but not to the same extent as regions like Port Hedland. Newman didn't see the same level of permanent accomodation being built as other areas. Much of the FIFO accommodation is for subbies not the miners themselves. Whaleback employees tend to reside in the town and have permanent accommodation. Not a lot are FIFO. That goes for a lot of the permanent businesses and senior management

    Expansions at the moment are Jimblebar and the new power station. Both scheduled to run for another 18 months I think. 

    My gut feeling is you should be OK. Use the 3 years to deleverage (in offset account) in case prices and rents drop. Prices should hold but rents may come back a bit.

    What part did you buy in?

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    JoeyJ wrote:
    Freckle,

    Despite the fact you didn't actually answer any of my questions, I appreciate the response nonetheless, even if it was a bit "ranty".

    Didn't you say, "I am excited, but am starting to second guess myself in terms of getting my situation right from the outset and also wondering if i know enough. A bad case of Analysis Paralysis it seems."

    And here's me thinking you might need a little further knowledge to help you clarify your thoughts.

    Quote:
    The reason I have chosen the Illawarra as the place to invest is that I live in the region and it is my intention to buy properties cheaply and add value through functional renovations, thereby increasing rental yield.

    Nothing wrong with buying in areas you know best and feel comfortable with. Note that while nominal rent may go up rental yield may stay the same. Yield is the return on the assets value. If its value falls and rents remain the same yield increases and vice versa.

    Quote:
    Luckily I am capable of undertaking the majority of work myself and have a supply of tradie mates that can assist on jobs that I cannot do alone.

    The specific areas that I am looking at have vacancy rates around 1% and an average gross yield of 6%. The rental market is quite tight in Wollongong.

    If vacancy rates are 1% and yields 6% something is wrong. You need to be looking for yields of least 8%+

    Quote:
    I think your analysis of the Illawarra may be a bit simplistic but an opinion it is. The university is obviously and important economic driver but so is Port Kembla, and with expansion plans underway it should be even more so. The Hospital and medical services in general expanding are also important for the area. By all accounts, Bluescope appears to be in a stronger position after the last restructure and even so it is not the only thing sustaining the region.

    Wollongong for example and that's fairly representative of the region has seen no median house or unit capital growth for 10 years. That speaks volumes for any potential CG in a general sense. There is no substantive economic growth driver for the region. Don't confuse activity for growth. 

    Quote:
    Obviously if I can buy cheaply I should not need to use the entire $70K of equity and will therefore remain below 90% LVR on my PPOR and keep funds in reserve as a contingency. This being the first step, I intend to tread carefully and not over commit myself. At this stage I am sticking to my numbers and am waiting until vendors become a little more "motivated" which will give me scope to make the IP as close to neutral or +ve cashflow as possible.

    Sound reasoning but only part of the puzzle. If your using an IO strategy then you have to be able to push the assets value over time to improve LvR. That means an average CG of around 3%/pa. You can give this an initial shunt with a reno but be careful not to trade the reno revaluation for poor future CG because it makes the figures work today. If you can't get an average gain of 3% over the long term then the deals dead in the water unless somehow you're going to make rental growth work for you as compensation. You also need to recoup entry and exit costs in those CG figures as well

    When you find areas with low to no CG over an extended period of time you have to question why you would want to invest there. This is where being a local can mean your decisions are being influenced by convenience and emotive reasoning.

    Good luck with it anyway. I don't envy you.

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