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  • Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    yep – we decided to just sell this one and realise the capital gain. Then when we are ready, find a more suitable property as an IP.(This one would be CF negative and we’d have a big mortgage on the new house too)
    If it doesn’t sell at auction then we’ll refinance and rent it out.

    See
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11649

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    Originally posted by Aceyducey:

    Fnomna,

    I recommend you be vary careful about pursuing an auction strategy in the current market.

    Auctions work best when the property is unique or distinctive in some way and there are a number of people interesting in buying the property.

    You really want to avoid paying good money to hold an auction & having no bidders.

    Cheers,

    Aceyducey


    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.

    – Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

    yep – if it gets close to auction time and it looks like it won’t happen – then we’ll reassess our options.
    One positive from the process is it may at least reveal exactly what everyone out there is currently willing to pay.

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    thanks guys.
    yes we will soon be reviewing our price in preparation for a 2 week (3 weekend) auction campaign and then if it doesn’t sell, hang on to it until it’s a better time to sell.

    we would have loved to (an intended to) create a good working relationship with the first agent. But the thing that really stuffed this up was a dodgy tradesman who they recommended making false claims, threatening to take us to court and put a caveat on our property! To top it off, after presenting our evidence to the agent, they took his side instead of ours!

    So it just went downhill from there.

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    You can be as proactive as you like, but in the end if you are dealing with a rude, abusive person ( firstly you don’t want to talk or communicate with them, its only human instinct) then you don’t stand much chance or a successful outcome.

    kp, that’s exactly what we felt. Next time we will hopefully nip things in the bud as they appear – or better yet set down exactly what we will not accept in terms of service and performance. That’s where the Jenman idea of the Customer Service Guarantee appeals.

    But I would say don’t let it put you off, chalk it up to experience, as not all agents are like the one you copped.

    And we have just started with property. They have shot themselves in the foot and definitely won’t be handling any of our future properties/sales!

    Then there’s word-of-mouth. Anyone we speak to about buying and selling R/E will not hear good words from us about this agent. Most Adelaide people who read this forum and keep their eye on property can probably work out which agent it is anyway. If it makes them ask questions before dealing with this agent then that’s at least one positive!

    With advertising costs, they weren’t negotiable with the 5 agents we spoke to. But we could get them to match other agents’ commissions.

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    Not at all yack – I have appreciated everyone’s comments. It is very interesting to hear about other people’s experiences.

    We can afford to hang on to it, so we will hang in there and not be pressured.[biggrin]

    Have heard of steps to tighten regulations for RE agents. Might have to do some reading on that too. As I remember, Qld and Vic have started – wonder if it has been any better since?

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    By the way, we are both young/inexperienced and this is our first home and first attempt at selling. As such, my views about the whole process are only based on this one experience – hence the request for advice.

    Thanks to all of you here for your replies so far! It has given us a lot to think about and remember for next time, if there is one! I look forward to filing this away and reading it when it’s all over. (The abusive messages will be an intersting listen too).

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    By the way, if the agent is in breach of any of the codes of conduct/ethics, etc, then you are within your rights to terminate the selling agency early.
    Try reading the contract first or get someone to help you with it…..

    We have spoken to someone and gone through the contract with someone else who should know about R/E sales contracts. We also spoke to the REISA and the Office of Consumer and Business Affairs (SA) – particularly about abusive messages and price conditioning.

    They all said he has done nothing wrong/illegal (according to the contract) – he is just a bad and unprofessional agent.

    (It’s interesting I kept a link from when we were researching selling and it’s to the REI SA ethics page. Now when I click on it, it doesn’t exist. Sort of implies RE agents don’t have any ethics and neither does the REISA – who work for the agents!
    http://www.reisa.com.au/ethics.htm)

    If i knew what i do now and if we had been upfront and asked about their tactics beforehand, I’m sure he would have been offended and that would have put us off.
    When we confronted him about a couple of mistakes made by them, he got very abusive and even left a nasty voicemail message (which we kept luckily). So he can’t even take any criticism.
    We thought they were meant to be working for us, but it seems one you are locked in for 3 months and it doesn’t sell straight away – they don’t care. Just another listing.

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    Have a meeting with the agent and show him whats on the market now in your area and compare them to your property. How do they match up price and feature wise. Get evidence behind you so they cannot ignore you. You need to support your price in the market today not when a valuer did a valuation x weeks ago.

    We do keep an eye on what’s selling and how much, but we both also work full-time. That is why we employed an agent to sell our house. If we are paying the agent $5000 – $10000 to sell our house, then we expect them to be the ones doing the research and telling us what’s happening.
    They have not given us any feedback from the 35+ parties who have come through the open inspections and the agent is not being active.
    That is why we have stopped promotion of the property through this agent – we don’t think they can sell the house.
    We are currently wondering whether to go through another agent or not.

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    Originally posted by yack:

    Are you sure you have set a realistic market/selling price?

    Dont forget you wont achieve the same prices as 6 months ago!!!

    Asking price (nearly 3 months ago) was based on a valuation we had done. But taking into account the slowdown, we would accept 5% less and consider offers 7% less.
    But the closest offer the agent has been able to come up with is about 12% less. At that price we’re more likely to keep it and rent it out then maybe sell later.

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    SuperTed, now I totally understand what you’re saying and it does make sense. Now it seems like a pretty obvious tactic. Didn’t read about that one anywhere!
    So when a buyer comes to them looking in the area, they could start with ours then say ‘but for another 50000 you could get a nice character bungalow/villa’.
    We sort of did consider it in a way. We thought our house may be wrong for this agent’s usual buyers. But – they did sell that one down the street and it was a conventional house too, just done up a bit more. Guess we just got sucked in.

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    SuperTed, do you mean he’s using ours to show his other listings that because ours isn’t selling, the others should drop their prices to sell?
    Or do you mean he is using ours to have open inspections and get new listings?

    If he’s trying the former then we sort of got that feeling. If he’s trying the latter, then the agent (the director’s trainee) is not doing a good job for his boss because he’s constantly on the phone and not talking to anyone coming through the opens!

    Either way, we thought he was just keeping us on just so he has another listing to advertise and make it look like he’s active in the area. Yes, in other words, using us. That’s why we’ve stopped all advertising and took the sign down ourselves.

    This is our first home we are selling and I am curious about other people’s experiences.

    Anyone else got bad R/E agent stories ???

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    So my first point would be ask them what they expect advertising will cost and why.

    We did that. He gave us a price for ads with and without pictures/sketches. The problem came in a couple of weeks when he tried to get nearly double what he said because he now had less listings and had to cover costs for a certain amount of “space” in the paper! We argued he never told us about that and only agreed to pay the original amount each week. Every week there would be only one phone call – to get us to pay more for the week’s advertising and arrange a time for an open!

    You should also ask how long they think they will take to sell the house? My advice is do not tie your house to anyone for more than 30 days. While we would all like 60 as a minimum. It’s not necessary if they have quoted you an accurate estimated sale price. The extra 30 days is normally used to get the price down if they have high balled you for business. If you are happy with them and for some unforseen reason they can’t sell your house – that is reasonable, they should be confident they can get your business for another 30 days. We only ask for 30 days and haven’t had to re-sign anyone. I’d prefer our clients be happy to stay with us than forced by a contract.

    This is where we got stuck. We had read everywhere not to sign for the standard 90 days, but for some unknown reason we did! We trusted him when he said ‘dont worry we’ll sell your house’.
    There was just one bad thing after another with this agent and one weekend we had enough and during a heated phone call tried to get them to end the contract but they wouldn’t and said we were signed to them for 3 months.

    The agency you choose while certainly needing to be reputable, is probably less important than the individual you engage as your listing agent. It needs to be some one you feel very trustworthy and honest . So ask yourself do you trust the person, do you genuinely feel good about being in their company?

    After our phone call, he no longer wanted to deal with us (neither did we!) but he fobbed us off onto his trainee ‘agent’ who would prefer to stay on his mobile phone during opens instead of getting feedback from people!
    After about 3 or 4 opens, he told us we need to think about how low we will come down in price and that he would have this conversation as many times as he likes! We were firm with our price, but he only had one real offer to go by which was about 15% less than we would accept.

    You may be asking why I haven’t mentioned price yet and that is because, if you rely on any agent for the price of your property before doing an objective assessment yourself you are heading for big trouble. You should already know the accurate value range (no more than 5 – 10 %) before they come in. You should scour the market, get past sale result data and view recently SOLD property.

    We thought we’d be right here becuase we got an independent valuation done before talking to 5 different agents. 4 of them said we’d sell at around the same price (we didn’t tell them the valuation). This agent hasn’t got an offer near what we would accept.
    Also, I kept my eye on local prices every day for the past 2 years. One down the street was very similar to ours and got a price we would have accepted for ours! Also, one further down the street was actually sold for a very good price by this agent we are with – partly why we signed with them.

    Currently (after 4 weekends of opens and after deciding this agent was not going to be able to get us the price we want) we have stopped all advertising including internet and the signboard. Trying to minimise the ‘damage’ and ‘overexposure’ this agent has caused.
    If by some miracle someone who has seen the house makes an acceptable offer before the contract runs out – they will get their commission – but they don’t deserve it!

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    Thanks Derek – lots of useful advice in there. Where is that other property forum? Is it public?

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    Thanks alf – you have an email.

    I live in adelaide. Things have slowed a bit i feel. Where R/E agents had to just sit and sell now they have to work.

    I agree. Will be interesting to see if there is the usual spring/summer upturn or not this end of year.
    We are looking at trying an auction in about a month and a half. Are they bad or does it really depend on the property?

    Jenman gives good advice in his books i have some and happy to lend to you. I wouldn’t use a jenman agent again though. The first and the last time for me.

    Anyone else got comments/experiences with Jenman agents?

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    Thanks yack – I’ll have a look. Just out of interest why don’t you think you’d ever use a Jenman agent? Not enough ‘exposure’ / no advertising/ no opens? Asking too much commission?

    Do little to earn their money – I agree in this case. By the time it came to the first open inspection, we already didn’t trust them. So we sat outside a shop on the street at the end of our street. We could see the agent at the front of our house talking on his mobile for nearly the whole 45 minutes!!! At the same time, about 10 parties went through – and we didn’t get any feedback because ‘our agent’ was ‘busy’ playing with his![strum]

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    Thanks for your replies – much appreciated!

    Originally posted by Julia:

    Fnomna,
    I assume that you purchased your first house and moved straight into it. If so section 118-192 resets your cost base at the market value when you first rent it out unless you elect to leave your main residence exemption with your first home until you sell it. In the latter case the 6 years is relevant. Though I wouldn’t recommend the latter as this will expose your new home to CGT. Note you can add to the market value the costs of selling and any improvements you make while renting it out.

    So, really this 6 year rule would be of use if we were to rent a place ourselves and keep the old place as an IP.

    If you don’t rent before you sell and you sell within less than 9 months section 118-140 applies to allow you to exempt both homes as your main residence for a period of up to 6 months before the date of sale.

    OK – this is what we are trying to do ATM.

    If you don’t rent it out the cost base will be your original purchase price plus buying costs, selling costs, rates, interest, insurance, repairs & maintenance during the whole period of ownership.

    Do you mean if we DO rent it out? We would be able to reduce the ‘taxable capital gain’ by all these expenses.

    There is a free CGT booklet on our web site http://www.bantacs.com.au that covers all these issues in more detail.

    julia

    Thanks Julia – yes you are a champ – I will definitely take a look at that booklet.

    Profile photo of FnomnaFnomna
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    @fnomna
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    Thanks to all for your replies and kind advice. I am new to this site and new to property in general!
    Your advice generally agrees with what we heard from one R/E agent (not the one we are selling through ATM). It seems to make sense to sell now for a bit less than we would like and put the money into our new PPOR mortgage.
    Then down the road when we are good and ready to seriously start investing we can plan it out and look at all our options more carefully.
    Now we just hope we can get get offers for even that amount.

    If it doesn’t sell with the current agent – what about an auction. What’s the general opinion with people here – are auctions ok or do they get you a lower price (Jenman theory!)??

    There are just so many options and things to take into consideration! Not to mention that we are both trying to get ahead in our jobs and then there’s the other major events still to come like a wedding and kids!!!

    Thanks again and good luck to you all with your ventures! Will continue to read as much as I can from this forum and hopefully learn a bit!

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