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  • Profile photo of flatoutflatout
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    @flatout
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    Looking for a residential IP for buy and hold, preferably something we can value add to cheaply (ie. clean, paint, new floor coverings, garden etc). Probably be away from Perth metro/Mandurah region as I think we can still get good capital gains with the benefit of higher rent yields elsewhere. Like to have something under contract before Xmas.

    Profile photo of flatoutflatout
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    @flatout
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    Had similar problem with a (IMO) dodgy valuation not long ago. Valuer spent barely 2 minutes in the house, took measurements very quickly and was gone within 10 minutes of arriving without asking a single question. Having been through a few valuations I was a bit shocked how this one went and had a bad feeling. Sure enough valuation came in at about $30K below what we felt it should have been. Even allowing for conservative nature of valuers this was ridiculous. Naturally we disputed and I obtained and provided a list of similar properties sold in last 12 mths in our area but all to no avail. Valuer would not budge. Considered getting an independant valuation but as it didn’t effect outcome of our finance application decided not to bother but it still left us shaking our heads.

    Our PPOR is a 4×2 B+I, 13 years old, excellent condition with seperate games/home office building. Within a month a property at end of our street came on market and was snapped up within a few days. Same size block as ours, same zoning, non-development, 20 odd yr old, cedar with asbestos roof, 3×1, tired, nothing special sold for just $20K less than our valuation.

    Profile photo of flatoutflatout
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    @flatout
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    Within 3km’s of our PPOR in Mandurah. Looking further afield now but will probably still buy within WA.

    Profile photo of flatoutflatout
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    @flatout
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    We recently purchased an IP that was pretty sound but had been rather neglected. The biggest issue was that the vendor had left the place filthy with years of built up grime, garden neglected, junk piled up, fly screens torn etc. Nothing major – we spent about $200 and a lot of elbow grease to get the place up to scrath. And it really came up well. Unfortunately in our haste to get the placed rented ASAP we allowed the property manager to assess and advertise the house for rent prior to us undertaking the work. Also, despite our gut instinct we let the PM talk us into setting the rent at $165pw rather than $175pw. Result was we had several applicants within a couple of days of advertising and in light of how well the house came up, we definitely should have stuck to our guns and asked for $175pw which is more in line with the current market. Lessons learnt…1) present property to PM and potential tenants in the condition we intend to let it (or at least close to). 2) The easiest way for a PM to rent a property is to offer it below market value rent – good for them, bad for us, 3) listen to our gut instinct, 4) its our property, we call the shots, we should manage the PM not the other way around.

    One good thing to come out of all this was that on moving in the tenant (who had only seen the house in its former state) was absolutely thrilled which I suppose creates a bit of goodwill towards us. And she’s been early with her rent so far!

    Profile photo of flatoutflatout
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    @flatout
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    Also check out the Real Estate Institutes in the relevant state. Eg. REIWA is WA. Just do a Google search.

    Profile photo of flatoutflatout
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    @flatout
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    Thanks everyone for your comments so far. The more I look at it, the more I like Geraldton. I’m sure we’ve missed the best of the growth there but I convinced that overall WA still has plenty of growth left in it and that Geraldton will continue to share in it. Time will tell…

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    @flatout
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    Since our properties are in WA, not really nervous at all. Just cautious and keeping expectations for CG real. Currently looking for our 2nd IP with a higher rental yeild that the 1st. Also have recently gone with fixed interest rates on PPOR (50/50) and IP(100%). Will go 100% fixed if/when we find our next IP.

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    @flatout
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    mitm, not use where you are but here in WA most tennants pay for their water usage. Some landlords will go 50/50 during summer months to encourage tennants to keep up the garden/lawns but that’s it. Where the property is equipped with a bore (such as our IP), tennant pays for all water. Pity we can’t pass on the water rates ;-)

    Profile photo of flatoutflatout
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    @flatout
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    Thanks kp for referring me to Karina’s post. Great story. I think Geraldton’s worthy of closer inspection. Partner and I are going o take a run up there this weekend.

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    @flatout
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    I’m a project accountant/administrator working within the manufacturing sector. Prior to this I worked as a financial accountant but the long hours didn’t suit after I had my first child. Project Admin/Acct is a lot less stressful and I love it because with each new project comes a new set of challenges and I never get bogged down or bored doing the same thing over and over.

    I also worked for many years within the hospitality/tourism industry in Qld doing everything from bar work, watiressing, house-maiding etc. Long hours and low pay eventually got to me so after moving to WA with my husband I went back to school to get my accounting qualifications and have never looked back. The hospitality industry isn’t so bad at the management level so I returned to it for awhile including a stink managing a new resort/hotel in Darwin. I finally got sick of the 24/7 nature of the industry though and swore off it for good.

    Profile photo of flatoutflatout
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    @flatout
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    Originally posted by redwing:

    Flatout-

    If you buy up North and get good returns, you may be able to buy another IP in Perth as well depending upon the increased income wouldn’t you..kind of along SiS’s Offset Gearing.

    Country WA property still looks interesting in many areas and possibly hit the peak in others, making the city still worth a look for CG and increasing rental yeilds IMO.

    I’m now thinking my next Investment will have to be a deal where i value add in many of the ways available and sell it (or part thereof)to realise a profit, thereby increasing my serviceability and keeping the bank happy.

    Its a numbers game isn’t it; working out if we stay at current holdings and property doubles every 10 years then in another 10 years we’ll have near $2M in property and around $600k in loans..the goal is to expedite the goal in the best manner.

    Redwing, you hit the nail on the head. It highlights the importance of having an investment strategy and building up the portfolio carefully. Per your suggestion we could buy further north and probably still afford to buy another IP around Perth where we still believe the market has plenty of growth left in it.

    However, IMHO I don’t see rental yeilds increasing for awhile yet. It’s an interesting issue though because historically low median house prices in WA made home ownership possible for virtually any income level. That means Sandgropers aren’t used to paying rent long-term. But rising prices are definitely forcing many low income earners out of the market and they will have no option but to rent until incomes catch up (could take many years). Is it possible/probable then that around Perth and the SW we’ll see enough demand for rental accommodation to result in imcreased rental yield???

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    @flatout
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    Good point Dazzling. Could be a good value add when the time comes to sell.

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    @flatout
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    There does seem to be a growing confidence in Port Hedland but unfortunately there is a stigma attached to South Hedland that will take some time to erase. A work colleague purchased a unit in SH about 6 years ago and unfortunately the rental yield has been very low. Trouble is they can’t offload it as they owe more on it than it is actually worth. Can’t refinance it and can’t buy another property because of the cash being chewed up servicing the mortgage. Definitely an investing nightmare and a warning to all investors – do your homework!

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    @flatout
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    Are they actually refinancing to access equity or simply selling up and pocketing their CG? Family freinds did this then rolled most of the profit into an annuity which subsidises their pension enough so that they are now enjoying a comfortable retirement.

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    @flatout
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    An interesting topic. We’ve yet to reach the limit of our servicibility thanks to my partners recent pay rise. BUT, we’re planning our next move very carefully. For instance, if we buy our next IP around Perth or SW WA, the unfortunate truth is that it would be relatively low yielding in terms of rental returns which means we’d chew up a large chunk of our currently free servicable funds. Thus it would difficult to purchase another IP beyond that. At this point we are now leaning towards IP’s further north where rental yeilds are higher but short term CG probably lower. The advantage is that for the same monthly cash outlay we could possibly purchase 3 more IP’s instead of only one. It also spreads our exposure to vacancies and other issues that would compromise our rental income.

    Profile photo of flatoutflatout
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    @flatout
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    My advice is look for a more modest PPOR. There are plenty of nice homes around Perth for a lot less than $350K. You can then pay off this mortagage quicker to build up equity to finance your IP’s. Remember most IP’s are negatively geared which means you’ll have to pick up the shortfall in the mortgage. You’ll find it hard if you already have a big mortgage to service on your PPOR. Another thing that we’ve often seen friends and family overlook is that the bigger the house you buy, the more furniture you’ll require to fill it. I’m guessing since you’re both just starting out that you probably don’t have much in the way of furniture/whitegoods etc and like most people your age, much of what you do have is probably of the mix and match type. So ask yourself this – once you’ve got your PPOR for $350K can you then afford to service the mortgage whilst at the same time set up a comfortable home, save towards your IP and then service the shortfall on a IP mortgage/rates etc?

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    @flatout
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    asdf, Mandurah results really a matter of being right place right time but like many investors we’ve made a mistake or two. Sold a 3×1 in Mandurah at the beginning of the boom and patted ourselves on the back for making 55% CG in 2.5 years. Stopped smiling when the new owner sold a year later for another 80K. He’d made 50% CG in 12 months. You lives and you learns!

    Profile photo of flatoutflatout
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    @flatout
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    What sort of train is it? If it is electric remember that thse are one of the quietest forms of transport around. In that case you might find that the main road is your biggest issue. Noise will always negatively effect property value but perhaps this is why this house is +geared1?

    As an aside a new passenger rail line (electric) and terminus is currently being constructed about 500m (as the crow flyies) from our PPOR. It was proposed when we first inspected the property and being a bit concerned about the effect on property value once constructed we contacted REIWA. Their advice was that generally properties located within 200m radius of railway are negatively effected whilst properties located between 200m-1km radius usually positively effected.

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    Originally posted by asdf:

    Anyone checked the websites recently for all Perth and WA suburbs thats been mentioned in this very informative post? I have never seen so many properties listed U/C! A bit of Deja Vu to when I was looking in Brissy and SE Qld a couple of years ago…. Surely investors can’t be purchasing these properties yielding around the 4% mark? Any comments from recent purchasers?

    But WA is certainly the talk of the nation at the moment when it comes to resi IPs. Maybe thats it – the herds in, time to bail…? Noticed in the Fin today that Lomas thinks that the horse has already bolted in Bunbury. Bugger! Was hoping to flick an IP to one of them herds…

    asdf, you are right about the low yield. Our Mandurah IP yeilds around 3.8% but the attraction is the capital gain. We made an offer in Aug05 and by the time we settled 70 days later we could have put the place on the market for $30-35K more than we paid representing a whopping 15% increase in value in little more than 2 months. Our PPOR in central Mandurah has increased by an average of 23% pa in the 3 years we’ve owned it. Official RIEWA figures show an impressive average 16% pa increase in property values for this area over last 5 years and many market observers predict we will see the same rate of growth in the next 5 year period. Personally, I’d be happy if we achieved half that.

    My own thoughts for the future is that Perth and surrounds will continue to experience good CG over next 5 years as the resources boom continues and a steady stream of interstate migration from eastener’s who are used to paying a lot more for a lot less in Sydney and Melbourne. It wasn’t all that long ago that you could buy a virtual palace here for about the cost of a 1 bedroom unit in Sydney. It’s not so good now but a nice family home is still very affordable.

    As for Bunbury, I too think the horse has bolted. Took a drive down there a couple of months ago and was very impressed. Seems Bunbury has really grown up in the last couple of years with improved innercity street scaping, thriving cafe strip and foreshore developments. Biggest problem now seems to be a shortage of affordable properties for rent which is driving rents up for those astute enough to already have an IP in Bunbury. If you don’t, well good luck trying to get one as resi stocks are apparently quite low as vendors are hanging off selling preferring to “wait and see” how high prices go. New listings are being snapped up by investors in a matter of hours. May be house & land package is the best way to go for investors willing to wait the 12-18mths it’ll take to build.

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    @flatout
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    So once you have the construction date, how do you determine the original value to depreciate?

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