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I just wanted to add this somewhere and then read your entry Feckle and laughed my very little derriere off but this is apt…
Surplus… C@#$ No chance… sorry, when, as still semi Alaskan I read that the Alaska Permanent Fund is investing 400 mill into the foreclosed housing market, Warren B is advocate and they are bundling by the thousands…
Sorry kiddies, the world is on the bandwagon and the US gate keepers to UBER wealth are buying…. bulk buyers… give up… individuals, leap – retail buyers will out bid professionals but by gosh, if your market is marked up by hyper inflated repair bills on top of repairs? IE the Demetrius Mathis’ of the world – your days are numbered… the big guns are in now..
Still BLOODY funny feckle.
I just wanted to add this somewhere and then read your entry Feckle and laughed my very little derriere off but this is apt…
Surplus… C@#$ No chance… sorry, when, as still semi Alaskan I read that the Alaska Permanent Fund is investing 400 mill into the foreclosed housing market, Warren B is advocate and they are bundling by the thousands…
Sorry kiddies, the world is on the bandwagon and the US gate keepers to UBER wealth are buying…. bulk buyers… give up… individuals, leap – retail buyers will out bid professionals but by gosh, if your market is marked up by hyper inflated repair bills on top of repairs? IE the Demetrius Mathis’ of the world – your days are numbered… the big guns are in now..
Still BLOODY funny feckle.
Eyeball and stare them down at application with a "don't even THINK of being late a SECOND"…… then day 5, hour 1, minute 1 and you are DEFINITELY filing eviction. Gone are my days of being nice…. I drive a Chevy 2002 pick up truck – which has one headlight tied up with my personal pyjama cord, I wear mostly paint splattered clothes with just enough of a hint of holes for no one to mess with me…lol..
Who has the tag line "walk softly and carry a big stick"? Always admire that one.
Another good point is that FEMA would step in and there would be a declaration of fed emergency freeing up government money for support….. How people who are CONSTANTLY flooded out continually get their houses rebuilt or relocated as is wont in AK.
and for all of us Stateside it is lovely to hear reality……..there are others and it is absolutely true… This is a business and you do need to treat it as such….My personal goal was to teach everyone what I knew to avoid them being ripped off…. Again, back then it was an absolute case of the only options out there were short timers who would be in the market for a few years until too tired and then just disappearing….
Good way of wording it ..l business.. Agreed Jay, and WI, thank you from me for sharing as well.
PS… My method was simply to only take on a few clients…… That way 4 am-ers limited to when I want them… Aaaah but I was also single until March…..!
All the auction lists are available FOC from title agents…. Useless company to spend $$ on for that reason.
Mick – wow… staging furniture – a higher end market than I'm used to … However – if this is you… do this.. PUT SOME BIG STICKERS ON EVERY ITEM SAYING THIS ITEM IS MONITORED BY A GPS TRACKING DEVICE….
Next – put cages on the a/c units if they get taken (although if Phoenix is like Vegas they are roof mounted and not so much of a concern) and if you REALLY are paranoid – nanny cams work brilliantly or fake cameras etc.
Sounds crazy but they all work… I am very lucky I suppose in that we are normally working and then someone moves in immediately – to date we have only had 1 a/c go in 3 years of foreclosures but that is touch wood etc.
Thieves in any country are looking for easy targets use all those silly at the time sounding neighborhood watch type things and they will just find an easier target.
All I can tell you about is that you just DON'T want to consider a claim on anything small.
Aaaaah the voice of the war wounds….
BUT BUT BUT – you are missing something fundamental… the type of person like me….I am talking about the type of person who, whether they were in Phuket, Singapore, Darwin or Tunbridge Wells would pick up a real estate magazine and start crunching numbers…. then just for giggles start looking…
I know, a rare breed but we do exist! I agree, if this is purely investment, an effective "property fund" is great and Jay, to many many extents I wish you had been there when I was desperately looking for anyone reputable Stateside to refer people to back in 2010 but there is a side here that people will start missing (or not!).
I am not saying that I wish US property management on my worst enemy or US Property managers in the main part but you are removing an essence that is unfathomable…. the hunt for the deal, the thrill of the chase etc…. I know, mostly for those over here but still, I equate it to the thought of gold mining.
To wade through the crap, to see the gem, to recognize the gem – I LOVE doing the inspections and writing the reno list…… to polish the house as quickly as you can, to market it with the pretty photos and to try to find the right tenant to love it as quickly as possible………..the trick of yield management????? The precise dollar on the supply/demand curve at which your rent is neither under marketed nor over?? The smell of the hunt even!
I spent many a year heading other people's companies or answering to Boards of Directors and every day I get to cherish (and I do) that I haven't a CLUE what day of the week it is….. and I don't really have to worry what city I am in….but by gosh I am scouring the sites to see what is out there. No boardrooms, no townhall meetings, no planning commissions??? I LOVE IT.
Addiction: the point at which your social life is affected and normal life rotates around this…would I do anything to continue it?
Every one I deal with is an enabler of this addiction and I suppose at some point someone will have to intervene but I genuinely and utterly and absolutely am completely addicted and will continue this until the day I day with absolute pleasure. It is SO SO SO not about money.
HOWEVER, It is a dangerous passion if you don't FULLY know what you are putting your hand up for though and sadly all those people who are just entering the US market in the past 2 years – BE AWARE – it IS fun but by GOD you are, just like WI, and just like many of the Australian based facilitators (and ultimately what I think happened to Andrew Allan) going to have the downs that make the highs seem questionable….and in the worst cases be eaten alive by this market…….So, if you are going through a facilitator just REALLY analyze how long they truly have been in this market and I swear, if they don't handle the back side of this, and only shove sales out there… be VERY aware that running 2 construction crews without oversight daily is a SKILL. It is called project management and if your facilitator says "I have an amazing team"… WHO IS OVERSEEING THAT TEAM FOR YOU – if they aren't a licensed real estate agent and can't directly stomp the streets renting the property for you…….find out who is and does handle that for you….(and how many others they handle that for) because the purchase is 1% of your US experience – and that, dearest, dearest Jay is where I agree that 90% of people just wanting an investment would be better RUNNING to you…. because half of the people helping you will not be in existence in the US in 5 years time and if you are planning to hold even a second longer than 3 years, you may well find yourself trying to deal with offshore repairs and complete uncertainty.
Plan NOW and learn the market NOW while you still have someone desperate to sell you something. If they haven't evicted someone, don't know the process, haven't a clue how to fill in Section 8 paperwork, wouldn't be able to be there to help you if something happened, find the person who does and get to know THEM.
Repeat the mantra… Once in place, you will be able to afford a massage to relieve the stress by waving one of your many USD at someone = )
Traveler's is who I usually get back to in any state…your premiums will be identical to US investors so no fear there but if you have a claim – you will be SCREWED…
My rule of thumb is and always has been, if it is under 5-10k, you are probably WAY better off NOT claiming it because you will increase your premiums on EVERY property that you have or will every own for the next 10 years…
On the PLUS side – if you don't have an ITIN yet, they can't track it! You will have to go through a different insurance company and use possibly a different address but you stand a good chance of avoiding that matter….
NEVER EVER use US insurance for anything less of catastrophe.
Just be lucky we have Medicare….My employees and I used to just accept that we would face double digit increases in insurance every year – even without a claim….. the day I found out an employee was needing her child to be sick we set up a separate company for them so that it wouldn't hike the insurance premiums of the rest of the company by more than 20%.
Welcome to the US!
No I agree – most people aren't huge fans of having vast funds in someone else's account but it is a fantastic problem for you to have = )
Most property managers I know DON'T charge a fee if you do it either regularly or with a minimum amount etc…
Of course no one has EVER heard of people running off with funds from trust accounts (Madoff) but that being said, for those doing it, they do have to be severely audited with strict reporting etc.
However…
That really does leave you with XE from the knowledge I have…
I GET SO FRUSTRATED WITH US BANKING… here is how stupid it is my end – contractors… I spend HALF my life running around delivering CHEQUES !! It is SO absurd…. the time to get from project to inspect the work to the next project, to the bank to order more cheques to – ha, I try to explain on a daily basis that up until the US I had NEVER as a grown woman, written a cheque – they were some antiquated thing I had memories of my mother having done….
I HATE IT!!!! They won't take EFTPOS but they will a CHEQUE???? Even just the "Have I got a blasted pen on me that hasn't run out of ink from writing them" = Frustration
Gripe over – I am sure I have to go and write a cheque to someone
Again…. xe.com is about the only one that I know of OUT of the US but you do have to sign up for the account. Ultimately for those without US bank accounts and using this for rental income – alternative would be to keep the money at the brokerage trust account and your property manager can wire back at your whim.
Actually, really… If he is out there reading this it would restore a LOT of faith in humanity.
Dubstep…. Fab idea…. Someone forward to him
I always tell people to look at a comparison snapshot of eleementary to high schools for demographic shifts. Fascinating for transitions.
Concur with Freckle…. Xe.com seemingly. Only way if you are with Wells Fargo etc. I had run a survey of our guys for the answer… It was unanimous. You will need to set up an account.
Is there an R/E professional anywhere here without umbrella insurance? I think my earlier posts were on that theme….. mind you, again, if heightened concern – whack it all on….. will eat yield but still. I said several but I think it is 5 LLC’s and took most out because the huge consideration is refinancing – for a US person anyway – sorry FNAP’s.
E&O and Umbrella… have to love it. I carry 3 mill.
Actually in Alaska tenants tend to sue – something about 3 weeks of -60 degrees and you want to start killing anyone for anything and being couped up in the dark….
I miss Alaska….
RICHARD
OMG – just read your post – expanding to Saudi will be PERFECT….. I lived in Bahrain for 7 years… trust me, he will literally be like a lamb to the slaughter……… unless he heads to the .5 million level+ he will be eaten alive.
MIA is huge for the Gulf nationals (Oman, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi) but they won’t suffer fools… just hope he isn’t targeting the expat community…..
If it is firm, Richard, as you know better than most….. we should get ahead of it and you send a letter to Al Jazeera and Gulf News etc…. the expat community is SMALL, a heads up from “home” will be taken VERY seriously….
HE can’t hide there. If he ticks off the wrong person….. lol…. removing a website would be the LEAST of his worries.
Jay
It gets back to why I chose Vegas in the first instance – sad but true….workers unite in Vegas (1.8 million toiling for the decadence of predominantly white and asian playground for 40 million adult visitors a year don't have much time to slack off so long as you stare hard at them in the first instance)….- again, so so so so so true on Section 8 in the lower enclaves….and Atlanta is just somewhere that I entered with all the trepidation of memories of the program from Alaska – not many blacks in Alaska (lol) but the worst of the concept used in America known as "white trailer trash" and not my now great memories in Vegas (pro landlord = eviction in 5 days).In Vegas, if I put a dishwasher on the street, it is gone within 5 hours – some hispanic crew will come around and have it for scrap metal…..heck, they rip copper wire FAR more out of the houses in Vegas than they do here…. (pointless exercise for the amount of copper)… BUT THEY HAVE TO WORK HARD TO RIP THAT STUFF OUT AND LIFT ALL THOSE APPLIANCES…. I mean SERIOUSLY. Any Saturday I can drive to local swap meet and buy it back, perfectly restored and ready to go again….
It used to SHOCK me here that in Atlanta all the appliances are here…. seriously shock me – and I used to leave them out (my workers ALWAYS get first pick for the metal)….but no, the appliances are here but the a/c's if anything are only marginally likely to be gone…?? It took me seriously about a month to figure out that it is just a lack of work ethic – it is too much hassle to take an appliance…..! Our thieves in Vegas are SO much harder working.
In the same socio economic demographic over here the tendency is that the cars are mercs, BMW's and the trousers start inching down around the thighs…the doof door music starts resonating… in Vegas, the Mexican fiesta starts with all the food being brought around – the little religious icons out in full display and the cars are all trucks and beaten up but by GOSH the kids look happy – and someone is ALWAYS trying o feed you…… mmmmmmm, yummmm…..
However Atlanta is a big city and it just gets back to being so so so so so careful where you buy. You can't avoid US tenants and no, your tenants at the levels we are talking about are not likely to be professional executives… again, get to know WHO they are….listingbook just ROCKS for demographics and community info. spot crime is fabulous etc etc…
Work. The concept of "WORK"… I just had the need for a handyman…(dude we love has kidney stones)… $15 an hour, must be licensed, bonded etc…78 applications in 24 hours for $15 an hour licensed and bonded…. SEVENTY EIGHT.. of those actually WANTING to work? 2 Home Inspectors from 2 of the wealthiest counties just desperate for work, a slew of master plumbers, electricians… you name it…….but it just goes to show that those who are unemployed and understand they need to do whatever it takes to get food on the table are few and far between. 10 of those 78 applicants TRULY wanted to work… 1 in 8 of those actually applying for a job WANTED to work?
<moderator: delete language>……. I HATE RAIN (separate note)…..the only good side of rain is I love the exercise I get from mowing lawns…… but they are almost as bad as swimming pools for maintenance if your tenants don't mow – especially if you were in an HOA with evil property manager.
aaaah, different worlds but still wouldn't swap it for the world…. to own your own home outright.. either country that is a HUGE statement right there – to own 2? to own 3? Positive cash flow AT ALL? Capital gain? Still worth it..
Mihovi
I with you – 14 million%%% – gets back to ASSUMING you are being ripped off by anyone selling you anything other than a property off the open market and simply work out HOW. In that process you will learn 40,000 times more about the US market than the spruiker trying to sell you.Richard could write a book, he literally knows more about US property than Andrew Allan ever did – as self evidently Andrew Allan couldn’t even look up title for the guy! GOOD GRIEF…
So – simple simple simple JUST 12 HOURS OF ARMCHAIR RESEARCH…
1) Find an EXACT address … if that is the address the spruiker is selling you or just ANY address in ANY city that you are interested in buying in….
2) Find out the sales price of EVERY property on that street (Geojet) from the local county website – go to the assessors page and type in the street address… EVERY Neighbor’s sales price will be there and when it was sold…… are you in an investor owned enclave? Does the surname match the demographic breakdown of that neighborhood?
3) Find 3 houses that are actively for rent within 500 yards of the house that you are looking to buy – CALL THOSE HOUSES AND ASK IF THEY WILL ACCEPT $100 less for rent than listed – if the answer is yes… BACK AWAY – but chat with whomever is renting – “is it easy to get to the school from this house?”, “how far are the nearest shops…. I don’t have a car, could I comfortably walk – I have 2 small children” – if the person renting the property is a licensed agent, they can’t lie to you …. they may avoid any issues that would get them into Fair Housing violations but you get a FABULOUS feel for where you are by chatting… get a Skype to Go Number that is local to your target market…
4) Google drive the streets, look at the composition of the elementary school versus the local high school – have you got a transition going on? What are the rankings?
5) When you have done all of that, contact ANY locally licensed buyers agent and ask for current listings, comp sales and rents for that area…… they will give that to you for free…..daily updates every day of every listing that is coming onto the market…No, buying through a US buyers agent won’t be a magic pill but by JOVE if they misrepresented the return, the material facts or the reason for you purchasing that property, don’t provide disclosures etc YOU HAVE RECOURSE. Which is a DARN sight more than those I have personally known who were ripped off to the tune of 100k on promises of rents that were even by the furthest stretch of the imagination over $400 PER MONTH more than they would EVER have stood a chance at getting…. and quite frankly, I don’t know what else to recommend to get the information out there – and that only covers the BUY – not even close to covering the Repairs or, further down the line, the actual management of the property…..!!
This is about those starting out and having the tools to understand this ISN’T hard, this can be fun and it isn’t all scary but don’t think that you can circumvent learning this market – you are going to be in it for a LONG time…. get to know how to stand on your own two feet, and if you are paying an “expert” – check they ARE an expert …… then get them to teach you how to fish – not actually just give you a smelly, rotten fish and tell you it’s Good Friday and this is the best and only fish you can have as all the others are sold out!
Oh, and yes, it will STILL be fun when the market turns…..I’ve been having fun for over a decade of investing… admittedly now is still like a smartie factory but still….
Further – without making the cultural divide seem like a chasm – I have a fundamental belief that Australians rarely genuinely meet people in Oz (and I am making such SWEEPING generalizations) who absolutely and without hesitation are out to scam you. As in, literally stand there and promise you the earth and in the precise same breath are not unintentionally, not accidentally but LITERALLY out working out how to scam you…. mind you I have only been to one property seminar in my life and most know that did NOT turn out well (lol)
I know I am not programmed to expect it or put up with it. I am shocked and floored when it happens. I expect that when something goes wrong someone will genuinely try their almightiest to fix it and if they can’t will almost die in the process and for all the “god fearing” that happens in the US, you just end up in situations where you are shaking your head with disbelief.
I again urge anyone entering into the US real estate market to ASSUME you ARE being ripped off – intentionally so – figure out HOW they are ripping you off and work backwards…. if you really and truly, after becoming masterminds of sleuthing, discover they aren’t ripping you off – check again….if they aren’t licensed, 99% they are scamming or making a SERIOUSLY large mark up which might be fine in your mind.
Read Gavin’s posts and learn.
