Forum Replies Created
Sprocket,
to be tax deductible you have to borrow money for an investment purpose.But you cannot redraw and put it in an offset account and get a deduction.
however you could get a
line of credit on house one living in it as your PPOR and using the line of credit loan against it as a deposit for an additional investment property. This would separate the loan so it is easy to see what has been used for an investment purpose.see
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?Docid=TXR/TR20002/NAT/ATO/00001&PiT=99991231235958
or
https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/getting-technical/finance/4327592?highlight=redrawWhen you ask about tax deduction on interest you have to look at your marginal tax rate that you are on with your job wage.
If you are on 30 cent in the dollar you have to spend one dollar in expenses to get back 30 cents.
If you save having to pay the dollar you may have to pay 30 cents in tax if it causes a profit compared to spending one dollar to get 30 cents back (70 cents loss)
go to http://www.ato.gov.au and do a search on tax ratesNow if you own (rather than bank) almost 100% of house one and rent it out you may pay 30c in the dollar on the rent is this such a bad thing.
You may be able to use this extra income to pay off the second house.coretex
Use an offset account it does the same thing as paying more equity without the hassle in the future of redraw not being claimable. You can use the offset balance for whatever you want without having to explain why you used it.
If you use an offset account it will reduce the interest charged on your PPOR loan and in six months time you can decide if you want to use the cash balance or reduce your interest bill.Pental wrote:Hi all,
I have a few questions that the more learnered of the forums may be able to help with.
So lets go …Firstly a summary, We have some assets already. About 300K in the bank (cash), fully own our home 300K+, and about 150K in rural property. No loans, no debt (yet), no official IP's.
Ok now the questions.
(1) I understand we should use some of the cash as a deposit on IP 1, but how much?. The reason is we have found some properties that are close to CF+ ,and would be, if we increased the cash injection at the beginning, but is this just fooling ourselves into thinking it's CF+ ?Usually investors aim for a 20% deposit to avoid loan mortgage insurance costs. You will need to additional money to cover the cost of state stamp duty and legal costs when buying.
You may find an offset account a better approach for reducing the loan interest charges and making the property cash flow positive while having cash available to use on call if the need arises in the future.Pental wrote:(2) Is it right to put just as much cash in as necessary to allow the balance to be paid by rent using an interest free loan. Including expenses of course.Question is confusing – Interest free loan ?
Do you mean you pay down the loan to a point where cash flow covers interest and principal to be paid.
or do you mean a lower interest loan where part of the interest is capitalised onto the loan to lower cash flow needed in early stages of the loan?
This is really a personal choice. I have done the pay down of the loan to a point where the rent paid off the rest of the loan.
You could use an offset account to achieve this although you must not have more cash in the offset than what is owed.Pental wrote:(3) Or with the amount of cash we have should we be just buying outright until it's depleted and use equity from then on.It is up to personal choice.
Depends on if you are after security or after gearing. What to consider is probably what level of gearing you want to do.
70% or 60% or 50%
IF you pay off the loan completely it is hard to redraw the money unless the redraw is used for further investment.
If you have it all in one house you may have to risk that house as security or take out a line of credit or redraw to invest in another property. Where as an offset account gives you flexibilityPental wrote:(4) I guess what I'm asking is if you had my initial starting point how would you proceed.If it was me I would try to have cash in an offset account as a safety net for cash flow management for when you lose a tenant or your employment.
Pental wrote:(5) What do people think of Commission homes (i have a phobia about them but the yeild is good.) I know the Cap Growth wont be great but maybe a portfolio mix is not a bad idea.I own an ex- housing commission house and it is solid concrete, steel roof trusts, concrete slab, no plaster board.
Very tenant proof house.
Has fake brick veneer on outside
Be careful of hot water gas inside laundry in ex housing commission in Victoria it is illegal and will have to be moved outside so that if the flue is blocked your tenant doesn't die from carbon monoxide while taking a shower.Pental wrote:(6) With some of these lower priced properties would it be better to do an I&P loan and get them paid off and out of the way ready for some serious equity treatment later (especially ones that may not have great Cap growth).Depends on your strategy is it cash flow or negative gearing.
If cash flow then paying it off quickly gives you cash flow to buy the next house and equity you can use to borrow more money.
Negative gearing relies on capital growth which can be hard to predict.Option 3 – Ask yourself where is PPOR exemption going to be on the country house or remain for 6 years on the city house.
If you move the PPOR to country house you need to get a valuation done on the City house as it is no longer PPOR and you need to establish cost base for future Capital Gains Tax event ie selling .Richard
Can an Australian get finance from an US lender ?
They probably have very low interest rates – currency exchange is a bit risky thoughIf you are planning on getting the first home owners grant then you will have to live in the house to begin with.
Always look at the long term outlook .
If it is a liability for 12 months but is turned into an investment after 12 months for say 15 years with a consistent plan to pay it off .
Then the small liability time of 1/15 of the time may be worth it to get your foot into the property market as long as your employment is stable.
You may have trouble getting a loan if a consistent savings plan cannot be shown and a period of time employed. (permanent status)Just do a search for floor sander on Google
here is an example of some professional sanders
http://www.mirrorfloorsanding.com.au/
http://www.lowesfloorsanding.com.au/
http://happyfnp.com.au/
http://latzifloors.com.au/
http://rivergumfloors.com.au/
http://www.getagleam.com.au/
http://www.homeimprovementpages.com.au/home_maintenance/Floor_SandingWant to do it yourself
see
http://www.reao.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1816
http://www.homeatyellow.com.au/yph/page/discover/content/editorial_1203564233812878
http://www.bunnings.com.au/diy-brochure.ashx/10/How_to_sand_a_timber_floor.pdf?stateID=3
http://www.vcsproducts.com.au/index.php?controller=category&path=14_145
http://www.homebuddies.com.au/articles/show/36-sanding-and-polishing-your-floor-boards
http://www.timbercare.com.au/diy-index.php
Want to see how it is done
videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2-FHKJpy2o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HGCInB0rdg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTYWd43K8s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZR7SYgQymc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGJIFHhpE88&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlTE4BZADiM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKitrVQMyZQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LErHJVrUMig&feature=related
these are just a few of the videos available on youtube you will see many related videos on this subject that you could click on
just be mind full of bandwidth use as video uses a lot more band width on your internet usage.Haven't done it myself but I am good at research from doing University degree.
Sanders can be hired from Most Bunnings and if you look at the DIY desk/section at Bunnings you most likely will find a brochure or maybe even a DVD you can buy explaining how to do floor sanding and polishing.
Another thing to be aware of is that if you get a trade person to do work on your property and they are somehow injured you could be legally liable if the accident happened on your property in Australia.
Sounds like a good way to get a foot in the property market. You just need to be aware that capital growth may not occur and look at reducing the loan amount as fast as possible to create a positive cash flow investment as you can't rely on capital growth.
You might want to consider setting up an offset account linked to your loan.
and put your $30,000 savings and your wage and future rental income into the offset account and make a repayment of approx. $200 per week or whatever the minimum repayment is.
This will reduce the interest charged on your loan by reducing the loan balance by the offset balance for the interest calculation by the bank. (make sure – ask bank if the offset account functions this way as some do not)
If you need the cash later or want to pay the loan off later you can just take it out of the offset account.You might have to hurry as the extra boost FHOG may be not be extended past 30 JUNE 2009
If you are able to live with your parents you could pay off the loan big time by renting the whole house out and using the rent and your income to pay off the loan.
It seems like you are getting no where but the $270,000 loan at 20 years at 7% costs $202,000 in interest where as from the loan going down to $240,000 at the same repayment level of $965 a fortnight costs $154,000 in interest over 20 years at 7% p/a.
Each time you make an extra repayment you are biting into the principal amount and you will get to a point where the interest cost becomes less than the repayment amount and the repayment of the loan accelerates.
You might wish to get the loan amount to a point where the interest amount equals the rental income minus expenses
When you get to this point you have a property that costs you nothing to hold if you are renting it out.Also you noticed the property value increased in two years.
if you worked it out it would be about 7% a year compoundingso based on a figure of a 7% p /a average compounding rate your property could be worth
$531,000 in ten years time
and
$370,000 in 5 years time.
Your loan would be $185,000 in 5 years time . So your net worth would be $370,000 – $185,000 = $185,000
Your loan would be $100,000 in 10 years time . So your net worth would be $531,000 – $100,000 = $431,000
based on a repayment of $965 a fortnight without any extra repayments at 7%
Your loan in twenty years time would be zero and the value of the house might be $1,000,000What I am trying to highlight is how money is made over time with a consistent investment savings plan.
It is hard at twenty to see ten years down the path.If you sell the house you miss out on any future capital growth.
On way of increasing the value is through improvement on the property.
neilvs wrote:To all you financial/tax experts out there:I know that i can go to the bank and take out a loan specifically for the purposes of purchasing shares as an investment.
Say i borrow $100 000 through some type of bank loan.
Let's assume that in under 12 months (during a certain tax year) i have made $10 000 profit through the sale of these shares.
Let's assume furthermore that the interest on the loan was 8% and therefore worked out to $8000.
I would then be up for capital gains tax on only $2000, since i can write the interest off against the capital gain.
Is this the case?This would seem fair and logical but as an individual taxpayer
you cannot compare interest expenses against capital gain income.
You can only offset interest expense against dividends income.
Capital Loss can only be offset against future Capital Gain
see point 4 & 5 under if you are a straight forward investor
http://www.minettpartners.com.au/bulletin/i2006n.html#2http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/18851.htm
unless you are Centrelink
the reason that banks look at less rental income is to factor in vacancy periods if you lose a tenant.
Maximum Leverage and positive cash flow don' t always go together. If you get the principal down you increase your borrowing power and reduce risk.
"I still don't see how it's possible – with our banks' lending criteria – to build a substantial property portfolio of (+) cashflow properties if the investor has relatively little capital to spare and a limited salary."
It is hard to begin investing but as you pay off the loan and the value goes up it will get easier and also accelerate if you keep feeding money into the investment.I am willing to put heaps of effort and study into ways of FINDING good deals (positive cashflow properties – but the other half of the equation seems to be missing … the half that both Robert Kiyosaki
Robert also stated Cash is King when this economic cycle occurs as money is hard to borrow and someone with cash can snap up bargains.You might find this book interesting to read
Unlimited CashFlow – It’s easy make money in Property
http://www.propertyupdate.com.au/pages/Craig-Turnbull-Books.htmlThe real estate agent may also know who does a good job rather than have a nightmare job half done or mucked up.
My parents have a house in a rural location they have been doing up and trade people are hard to find.What about a family member guarantee on the amount that is the short fall to keep lender happy.
Maybe a joint partner like girl friend if she has a job
I had the same problem when I went to university and still have the problem due to not getting a job after university so I have limited borrowing power.
My PM is using hire a hubby to come in and change the battery every 12 months.
It has been hard for me as I haven't had a job for 7 years after going back to university after leaving a nice secure job. I have this bug you are mentioning but not having income has put me in a holding position at the moment. When I get a job again it will be full steam ahead but when that is I don't know. I have been a house dad to two daughters while my wife supports me and that has been price less and next year my daughters both be starting school so I should be able to devote time to either getting a job or running my part time business full time and property investing.
This sort of investment relies on having either a retirement demographic for the area or a just starting out young people type demographic. These types of people generate demand.
You have to decide are you after capital gain or cash flow in your investment strategy.
$130 a week = 6760
probably you will incur expenses like insurance, council rates, strata rates, water rates and repairs so guess of $2000
$6760-2000 = 47604760/ 85000 *100 = 5.6%
as a cash flow return compare 5.6% with what the interest costs will bealso check other similar properties rent in the area from real estate windows, web sites maybe
Its hard to predict where the bottom or top is,
I had in my opinion a bottom level close to 3200 on the all ordinaries index.
My opinion is based on the long term average bottom support level of the all ordinaries over the last 10 years ignoring the crazy upwards surge that happened before the collapse.
However some of my shares are climbing back up although I am still in a loss situation with these shares.Just because it may be legal doesn't make it legal at all. (laws are interpreted by the tax office and courts)
If you redraw the money and then try to claim it as a tax deductible loan you will
most likely have to explain at your requested tax audit as to
why your investment loan has suddenly increased
and
how the purpose of the funds have not been used fpr paying down a private loan for a PPOR use.
and that you are not engaged in a scheme to avoid paying tax
as their is legislation that pertains to whether a person has planned an action to avoid paying tax.
see this tax ruling at point 22 and point 24
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?Docid=TXR/TR20002/NAT/ATO/00001&PiT=99991231235958I have completed tax law and a commerce degree but I am not licensed to give specific advice or gained a job in it .
Dolphn Girl,
Depends on what the purpose of the other debts are for. Investment debts or Private use debt.
(there has to be a direct nexus between the loan and the income producing purpose- tax law wording in ITAA1936)Nexus means connection or tie
Section 8-1 Tax assessment Act 1997
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?locid=%27PAC/19970038/8-1%27#8-1
Investment debts or Private use debt.If the other debts are private use then your consolidated loan is not going to be 100% investment related.
And will be difficult to determine how much of the interest is for investment and how much is for private at future tax time when you decide to rent it out.
If the other debt is private use a seperate line of credit loan would isolate the private use debt from the investment debt
just do not mix private use with investment use.
Some banks allow multiple line of credit loans secured against the house so you can have a line of credit set up for personal use that is non tax deductible and then have another line of credit loan for some kind of investment purpose if the need arose.
My bank allows 5 line of credit accounts
At the variable house interest rate.not so lucky,
What the tax loss means is
Total net property loss = total property claimable expenses – property income (being rent)
Total expenses = $23k to $28k. Your property income based on rent of $350 pw = $18,200. per annum
Total net property loss= ($23k to 28k) – 18200
Total net property loss= $5k to $10k.
This amount goes into your tax return as net property loss or income (depends on if a loss or total income)
Now this amount is subtracted from your job gross tax assessable income.
The marginal tax rate that this falls into determines if you get 30% back which is the tax already paid on 5K to 10K
So if assessable income was $60,000 then the tax rate is 30% from 34001 to 60,000 earned. So subtract say $10,000 off your 60000 brings your assessable income down to $50,000 so you paid $3000 more in tax than you actually earned.
Hence a $3000 tax return refund.
see
tax rates
http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/12333.htm