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  • Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    did a bit of searching and found http://www.sitesforsale.com.au/Sites/NSW/Raw_Sites/NSWRaw.htm

    http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=106281820&f=0&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=35807669&s=nsw&snf=rbs&tm=1267507945

    http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=105394087&f=100&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=35807669&s=nsw&snf=rbs&tm=1267507945
    This one may be able to strata title and sell each unit separately you would need to apply for strata title and check with council before buying.

    http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=106327877&f=90&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=35807669&s=nsw&snf=rbs&tm=1267507945
    This one actually is advertised as a development potential site. May need to check if asbestos in cement fiber sheeting !

    http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=106171910&f=110&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=35807669&s=nsw&snf=rbs&tm=1267507945
    This one actually is advertised as a development potential site

    http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=105437507&f=120&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=35807669&s=nsw&snf=rbs&tm=1267507945
    This one is 11 Acres

    http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=106315653&f=120&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=35807669&s=nsw&snf=rbs&tm=1267507945
    May need to check if asbestos in cement fiber sheeting !

    http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=106352638&f=120&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=35807669&s=nsw&snf=rbs&tm=1267507945

    http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=105971346&f=120&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=35807669&s=nsw&snf=rbs&tm=1267507945

    I know these may not be close to the city but they are larger sized blocks

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    I just thought of this !

    If you buy a property you will need to get the insulation job checked out in the roof !

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    Renting can have an advantage over a short time frame.
    If by renting you can rent out the new home and claim building depreciation on the construction costs it may be better.
    But over a long term time frame if you own your PPOR it can be a better choice as eventually you own the house after 12 to 25 years and capital gain is not taxed.
    Also you pay off Your own home after paying tax on your wage.
    An IP's interest is paid off by before tax income.

    Do a cash flow forecast.
    Borrowing for own home as opposed to renting and buying an investment property

    Bank lenders usually take into account your renting costs when you get a loan.
    However a rent may be 4% of the property value where as a home loan could be 7% or higher plus principle repayments.

    If you can pay off your home loan quicker then you can slowly get ahead.
    It can slow down your rate of investment while you wait for the equity to grow and for the loan to reduce on your own live in home loan.
    I do not live in my own house but I sometimes yearn for a piece of land that I can say is mine and that I can plant a tree on and get fruit off it . I do own a house as an IP but do not live in my own house.

    Can you get First Home owners Grant because this changes the benefits versus the cons.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    colali wrote:
    Hi Everyone! My partner and I are looking at purchasing our first property this year. We currently have only $13,000 saved (no debts), and are entitled to the $7,000 FHOG. But, my partner also owns a property (inherited) overseas that is worth around $140,000 (and is rented out for $180/week). We are thinking of using the equity in this house to fund the rest of our deposit (around $80k) on a property with a sale value of no more than $500,000 (therefore with the equity in the inherited house and our savings, we will have a 20% deposit). We will then live in the house for the required six months (to ensure our entitlement to the FHOG), but due to the nature of my partner's work (which has him constantly relocating)

    If he is in the Australian defense force and in NSW there is an new exemption for this
    quote=colali]
     we will probably then move out and rent elsewhere and rent out the purchased property. This brings me to my question… borrowing money against the inherited house to buy our 'home' (hence eligibility for the FHOG) means that we can't claim tax deductions against the loan, because it's not specifically for an IP….
    [/quote]
    Take out a line of credit facility in the other country for the deposit. As you will most likely not be able to secure AUS Loan with another property in a different country.
    By taking loan in another country, however  you will be exposed to foreign currency risk.
    A line of credit separates the loan with overseas existing mortgage so it can be easily identified as a loan for the deposit.
    So when you change the use of the PPOR to IP you have a loan linked directly with IP purpose.

    colali wrote:
    BUT, if we move out of the 'home' and turn it into an IP six months after purchase, can we THEN claim tax deductions against the $80k loan?
     

    Only on the portion of  total yearly interest and yearly expenses for the remaining days left in the financial year. 
    days left /365 * annual expenses (not sure on the foreign interest charges they are probably foreign expenses in the tax return ?)

    There are more knowledgeable people on this forum who are mortgage brokers who may be able to confirm if cross security between countries is allowable or not and
    whether Australian rental income can be offset against Foreign interest expenses in Net Property income/Loss on the tax return or if it goes into Foreign expenses in the tax return for a foreign loan.

    Wait a while as I am sure other views and opinions will come from other Forum contributors.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    Go to Google and type in Town name
    and then follow it with the word demographics
    Then click on search
    or
    goto http://www.abs.gov.au
    and in the google search of the abs type in the town name and search the abs

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    If you just purchased the property and the fences were in a state of disrepair then when you replaced the fence you actually improved the fence beyond what state you purchased the property at. Thus it will be classed as improvement as another crazy grey area of Tax Law.
    Ladybird is also correct in the entirety rule which is also another grey area of Tax Law also.
    I had the pleasure of replacing the back fence a 12 years or older fence only to have the tree in the backyard drop a branch onto the new fence.
    So I guess the replaced fence is repair as it is about 40% of the fence  –
    and the repair is a repair though the tree damage.

    http://www.mestateagents.com.au/blog/2009/11/recognising-the-difference-between-repairs-improvements-for-investment-property-owners/
    See point 1.

    http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=TXR/TR9723/NAT/ATO/00001
    See section 1d and point 5
    see section 59 -66

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    Not when you have a degree in Commerce with major in Financial Planning and you find entry into employment non-existant.

    I have had dealings about two years ago with the company link below but couldn't meet the sales volume they required for their previous mortgage development program.

    http://www.planaustralia.com.au/membership/JoinUs.asp
     

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    Your broker sounds like he is trying to get the lowest interest rate .
    .
    He is cross co laterialising the properties but he is correct in the professional package in giving you a lower interest rate on large loans over 500k but failing in listening to what is really important to the customer. Sounds like the broker has the thinking only of a lower interest rate is better. The broker will be worried that a bank or another lender will offer you a lower rate and he loses your business which happens a lot to brokers.

    A line of credit loan against property one would be a loan of $33,000 so if you can get finance on 90% LVR for property two with 33k as deposit.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    BATT MAN should go back to performing.

    Here are some new lyrics to use for the next song "how can we sleep when our batts are burning"

    How do we excuse
    when our insulation is a maze.
    How do we breathe
    When the roof is a blaze.

    When the job ls appalling
    The roof looks crap
    I'll need to get, the installers back.
    So they can fix the Batts.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    Ask your broker if you can set up a Line of Credit account (Loan) against the PPOR for the required security deposit for the next IP
    With a $700,000 with 14,000 owing LVR of 80% for LOC is $546,000 you should be able to borrow however the income limitation will lower this but a 20% deposit should be enough. As an example a $700,000 IP required on next property purchase then $140,000 line of credit loan against PPOR and $560,000 loan against next IP.
    Some lenders take into account the rental income you will get from the $700,000 new IP , some lenders may take a percentage of this expected rental income into account.
    Your Mortgage broker should know which lenders on their accredited lenders panel might accept future rental income into the loan approval process.
    This may not be able to be done if you can't service the $140,000 Line of Credit , $300,000 loan commercial and the new IP mortgage with another lender ( make sure it is not the same bank as PPOR Loan) !

    Another point I just thought about is if you can get the loan needed by CC you have to borrow the same amount of money so servicability shouldn't be a problem via a LOC

    Hope this sheds some light on the loan structure.
    .

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    shangrila00 wrote:
    Hi All,

    With regards to CGT in relation to subdividing a block and building two properties (one as a PPR and the other as an IP), I've been told by several people now that come tax time the ATO will only consider the cost associated with the construction of the IP as a cost base. Does this mean to say that on paper my gain/profit will be greater than in reality, as in reality I'll actually have incurred an extra cost (not considered by the ATO) in relation to building the PPR, as well?

    The way I see it is that the ATO will say I have X amount of dollars after Sale Price of IP – Cost Base (of IP only), when really it'll be Sale Price of IP – Cost Base of 2 properties. If I take out a loan (a cost) to cover the construction of both properties, of $500K, then that's what I need to repay the bank when the IP is sold. The cost base, though, will be $250K for the IP. I sell the IP for $700K, and from the info I've gotten so far, that's to say I'll be taxed on $700K – $250K = $450K. In reality, though, I'll only be getting $200K after I pay the $500K loan,

    Loan is 250k for the IP and 250K for PPR
    You need to take into account the land value as part of the cost base.
    Also the holding costs of loan interest can be added to the cost base known as third element of cost base.
    Also read second element as you may have incurred these costs also !
    see http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/36557.htm&page=2&H2

    So Capital Gain  = 700k – 250k – (50% of total land original value when you bought it due to subdivision)

    shangrila00 wrote:
    so how can they tax me on $450K when I'll have access to a $200K gain only? An "invisible" cost to the ATO (re: PPR), but a real one to me!

    Are you selling PPOR for a 700k Profit ?
    Your getting the PPOR part of the loan being paid off from selling the IP without selling the PPOR !
    You will have to also deal with GST when you sell the property. !!

    shangrila00 wrote:
    Sorry if I was confusing with my post, but really need some advice on this! It's hard to say who I should consider pleasing first – the bank

    The bank is charging you interest on the loan !

    shangrila00 wrote:
    by repaying the full debt or the ATO by having sufficient funds to pay them at the end of the financial year?

    You do not pay 100% CGT at worst 40% of gain.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    Thanks John for listing those
    I also noticed a vacancy rate list in the back of API magazine for FEB 2010

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    I think they might be ok for just a cash flow generator but capital growth is doubtful and expenses incurred could be another problem.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    Haven't done any development myself but these are the most likely insurances you may require

    Are you having people work on your land ?
    Yes then you need Public Liability insurance as if they get injured you could be liable.

    http://www.strathearn.com.au/OurServices/PropertyDevelopment/tabid/133/Default.aspx
    You may need to insure the construction on it
    http://www.buildersbroker.com.au/
    http://www.insurancecompared.com.au/explained/other/construction-ins.php
    You will also need to insure the workmanship of the construction
    see
    http://www.realestate.com.au/renovate/building/articles/builders-warrenty-insurance.htm
    Hope this helps you in your quest some other forumites may come up with other suggestions.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    You need to be able to cover the repayments.
    This is known as servicability.
    Can you support the 15 – 20 k development costs on top of loan to purchase place.
    Factor in 10% GST on the sale of a subdivision new building and also any Capital gains tax.
    You need to work out a cash flow spreadsheet.
    Cost of keeping Rental property one = income – expenses
    Cost of keeping rental Property Two = income – expenses
    Cost of development – $20,000 development costs
                                           – ?????? building costs
                                           – ?????? Landscaping costs
                                           – ?????? Marketing costs
                                           – ?????? six months – 9 months holding hosts on loan required
    Then once you know this you can use it to show the lenderwhether  you can afford the next loan.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    Buy something at less cost. If it is an investment you do not have to live in it
    You could buy in a cheaper area and pay it down to a point where expenses = income
    This is the hard solid savings part.
    Live with parents for longer, dont buy expensive depreciating cars, work during tafe / uni rather than getting study allowance, save your AR$# off to get that deposit – It will be worth it in the long run.
    What really kills is trying to pay off a huge mortgage. A smaller mortgage can be paid off really quickly and then the property doesn't cost you to keep owning and renting it out.
    As an example
    http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=105643754&f=20&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=60385599&s=vic&snf=rbs&tm=1267005338
    Costs $75,000
    So you need stamp duty costs of $2000 plus 7500 for deposit plus $1300 probably for LMI plus $1200 for legal costs.
    So $12,000 you need to save up (some cars cost more than this !, some people owe this on their credit cards)
    Loan of 67,500 repay over twenty years of at 10% interest rate is $150 a week
    Now unfortunately you need to have a job or proof of income to convince the bank to lend to you $67,500
    Now put a tenant in it
    at say 3% yield is $43 a week
    hang on this earns $120 a week in the ad thats 8% yield
    lets say 40 a week for expenses thats $80 a week
    So now you need $70 a week to make the repayment
    Lets say you decide to take your lunch to work with you hey there's $70
    Lets Pay an extra $70 a week towards the loan.In 229 repayments (4 and a half years) you have a property that costs you nothing to own when rented based on 10% interest rate.
    In seven years at this rate of repayment its paid off.

    Lets Pay an extra $140 a week (so total out of pocket $210 a week) towards the loan.In 140 repayments (2.6 years) you have a property that costs you nothing to own when rented based on 10% interest rate.
    In six years at this rate of repayment its paid off.

    Interest rates are not at 10% but it is a good figure to allow for interest rate increases.

    The point is you have to start somewhere and how good would it be to have a property paid off worth at least 75,000 that you can then borrow against for the next investment property.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    PeppersGhost wrote:
    Sorry if this has been covered a myraid of times, please point me to the discussion if it has. I received some advice today that caught me by surprise, thought I would check its validity here.. understanding the collective IP IQ here is astronomical! :) Hypothetical situation: If I have a property worth $500k I owe $100k on it (the debt has been reduced over a period of years) I want to upgrade and buy a new PPOR (say$750k), and keep the old property as an investment. My belief was that I could use the Equity in the old property ($400k) and move it to the new PPOR. The old property is now an IP – and after refinancing, it has a debt against it of $500k. All the interest payable on this $500k is tax deductible.

    Not Claimable – It is a Good way to get an Audit by the Tax department
    There must be a direct nexus (means connection its the wording in the Tax law ITA1936) between
    The income producing asset and the loan used to acquire the income producing asset.
    You are borrowing money of 400k to use for a private use being your new PPOR so there is no nexus with the rental property (previous PPOR)
    .

    PeppersGhost wrote:

    The advice I have received is that this is not 'allowed' by the Tax Office. They will see the purpose of any new loan taken out as 'private use' (that is – buying a PPOR). The only interest i would be allowed to claim as a tax deduction would be on the original $100k loan – the entire new loan would be non-deductible. 1. Is this correct?

      GOOD ADVICE !!

    PeppersGhost wrote:
    2. Are there any smart loopholes that you know about?

    Yes
    This is if you really want to negatively gear it
    Don't rent out the property Sell it ! (This is known in Steves book as releasing locked up equity)
    Then put most of the equity into a new PPOR and then buy another investment  property with less deposit either some of the released equity from the sale or setup an LOC against the new PPOR for the loan for the deposit for investment property.
    Why because you do not have to pay CGT as Exemption for PPOR.
    Yes you have to pay sales commission and then stamp duty when you pay the next property but you now have an investment property geared at 80%
    This is if you really want to negatively gear it

    PeppersGhost wrote:
     3. To access the Equity in the old home – do I have to sell it, then use the funds to buy a new IP? Thanks People

    Yes if you want to maximize negative gearing.
    However you may want to positive gear the original PPOR as an investment Property, however you would require it to be re-valued to work out a cost base for when you sell it in the future for record keeping requirements.
    Why you might want to positive gear it.
    When you make  say as an example a $10,000 loss for the year you get back 40% if you earn $90,000 a year
    When you make  say as an example a $10,000 loss for the year you get back 30% if you earn $70,000 a year
    When you make  say as an example a $10,000 loss for the year you get back 15% if you earn $34,000 a year

    So if you are on 30% you lose $7000 a year as you get $3000 back unless you can claim depreciation.

    When the Henry report is used to alter taxation law the information above may become bollocks.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    Are you referring to the negative gearing possibility. Where rent income is less than all the expenses incurred to produce the rental income ?
    If so if you buy in May you are going to have to wait until Settlement before you can rent it out. And you can't claim expenses unless it is rented out or available to be rented out .Settlement usually is 90 days.
    So if you rent it out it might also take time to find a tenant.
    If you buy after financial year you may have to proportion income and expenses for the first year. So say you rented it out for 300 days in 2010/2011 financial year then you have to part claim 300/365 * annual interest
    You need to keep a record of when it was rented out for your accountant and check it out with accountant.

    If you can rent it out before June 30 you might be able to pay interest in advance for the next financial year.
    http://blog.mytaxzone.com.au/2009/06/paying-interest-in-advance.html
    Good point to talk to your accountant about Too !

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    With an LOC you go to the bank and apply for an amount you can borrow based usually on 80% Loan to Value ratio.
    So at this stage haven't borrowed the money but set up a facility where if you need the funds quickly you can transfer them out of your LOC account to your savings account – Now after the transfer  you have borrowed money. So no need for an offset account to park the funds as they are available when you need them as you would have already applied for the LOC facility.
    It can also be used to separate loans.
    At tax time your LOC represents investment loan interest where as trying to work out the amount on the equity release would be harder.
    Sometimes you might need more than one LOC account which some banks allow
    So you could have an LOC account for an investment purpose and another LOC for Private use.

    Not 100% sure but I heard that equity release doesn't need to be paid back and a lot of them are designed for pensioners that are sitting on huge equity but can't afford to eat or go on a holiday or fix up the house ,ect
    They are sometimes called reverse mortgages.
     

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
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    G'Day Mate!
    Welcome to the forum

    http://www.apimagazine.com.au/
    Would be a good starting point
    also
    http://www.businessmall.com.au for books on investing in the Australian Market

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