On the soapbox again QGM,

Yes, Developers should sell their properties at a lower price through traditional agencies,

Yes, other "traditional agencies"with marketing arms are selling over priced property…. absolutely. You will notice they have marketing companies aside from the agency name so they can claim the fees it is illegal for a real estate agency to claim.

Also have a look in your real estate section and you will see plenty of new stock now being sold at anywhere up to hundred thousand dollars less than the initial purchasers have paid – who by the way were obviously valued up by the banks a year ago, thus providing the hapless investor a  nice sense of security. And don't blame any financial downturn, happens everyday regardless. But i suppose that's just too bad, buyer beware.

Investors Club, read the posts on them, i don't think the sentiment is all that underlying.

If there were enough safety measures in place, then these high fees would be non existent. It's all come from the two tier marketing days and have just been transformed to lurk in the dark depths of loopholes. And make no mistake yourself QGM, they will transform again when they need to. These fees don't reward hard work, they fund the marketers method of hard sell, exactly the same as T.I.C. which is pretty funny when you consider the way they run down real estate agents.

Buyer beware, yeh yeh, I geddit,  great, okay, your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but the fact is people just should not be allowed to take advantage of anyone at all regardless of whether they are the village idiot or some innocent just starting out. These gays and gals are slick operators and the good ones are extremely smooth and credible. They know how to talk someone through the sale and while the cooling off period may save a few, they are always 'ön hand" to talk you through the buyers remorse (everyone gets it, right)

oh and please enlighten me, how much do these guys give to charities, i would love to know. you obviously do, which leads me to believe you may be a bit more involved than you let on. Just an opinion.

With RP Data its all fine and well to look at the figures but as they dont differentiate between …well anything actually… their figures are a general guide at the very best. They dont take into consideration fire sales, auctions, mortagee sales and a house that has five walls missing due to the fire last month. Semi detached, i am guessing is what i would call a duplex, is listed under houses generally, so that will make it even harder.

Forget RP data, just talk to local agents and lots of them. Talk directly to an agent and just ask the questions, might cost  twenty bucks in gas – if it's in your area, if not twenty bucks in phone calls. Probably more worthwhile.

swings and roundabout Neil, but really what ever is going to give you the best return is what you want, which means you need to find stock to buy and find out all outgoings and incoming.

I can't speak for everywhere but where i am two properties at 200k each means two lots of body corp fees where as a house can be purchased for 400k. Whats the outgoings going to be on either scenario? this is the stuff you have to find out for your self and make the decisions based on all the facts.

I personally have no problem with going for two cheaper properties if the out goings were acceptable and the area was going to show good growth, but that is probably easier said than done.

QGM,

My gripe with them is i feel they misrepresent them selves as a club when plainly they are not. If they were a club, in the true sense of the word,  they would pass on the profits to the members or lower the commissions they demand so they are not paying the same as everyone else. And the fact is other people outside of the club can negotiate with the developers, some will offer a cash back incentive at settlement to these people but make the contract price the same to keep it all nice and tidy. Fine, let the top echelon make all the money, but don't make a song and dance about how good they are to their members.

They have massive problems with valuations and actually pre empt this by telling members to expect it but don't be put off by it, that's just real estate for you. The in house finance department can get you round that obstacle.So are they paying market price??? I'm sure there are plenty that will argue both sides, but I think not.  And their strategy used to be and i would imagine still is, to push people towards the stock they can get listed for the big fees, not nessecarly where the best place to buy is. Best for the member, I think not. You can go on all day about buyer beware but that is not really the point, particularly the way they do business, and yes people have made money through their buys, they just could have made more.

I am not usually a " knocker"and am in fact quite a positive person, you need to be in life. and if knocker is the worst i get called today, then thats a good day.

BTW, like you I have a lot of experience in property investments and I have also had first hand experience with the club in past times.

maybe the knockers are just tired of it., its a pretty old post.

What nail have you hit on the head exactly.

What they teach is pretty standard stuff , what they sell is pretty average stock, nothing sensationally well priced and if your looking for a bargain, look elsewhere. They tend to steer the ship into whatever waters they can find stock in, because you do realise they are not really a club, that they are a marketing firm that sells real estate. Which is kind of funny how the top management crow about real estate agents, because they are real estate agents, real estate agents that charge high fees. They are a pretty average bunch really with a few zealots thrown in for good measure.

As for Real Estate agents and brokers, there are plenty out there that will offer the same service with less costs involved, like all walks of life, there is good and bad.

A few posts back someone mentioned Neil Jenman, well it must be said Neil is as bigger self promoting inflated ego as K.Y. I find his jousting with the club excellent reading, particularly when he is made to apologise publicly to T.I.C. Just be careful where you tread round his white steed, don't want to stand in anything nasty or dent his shiny armour.Neither one should be taken too seriously

for Queensland that not overly expensive,I dont know about wherever you are situated.I can tell you i have dealt with A LOT of conveyancers and you truly do get what you paid for.  But two things come to mind

A) you have paid it, forget about it. shop around next time and don't let it bother you.
 
Friends are always full of great information……..after the fact.

i wasn't meaning you as the negative so and so, I should have made that point in the post,and good on you for saying it. i was refering to my original post in which i was largely negative to startxing's deal in general and just didn't want to come across as over the top.

Het frosty, if the deal is good it's always time to buy. just do the research.

There is no way i could find out the agents commission, since the selling agent is in Sydney~~ [/quote]

I don't know how it goes in Sydney, but there should be a disclosure of fees somewhere. being in Queensland it should have a PAMD 27c form attached that shows the fees and commissions.

Have a look carefully.

The studio inside sounds interesting, that is one positive. Access to a pool is not worth 80K (to me anyway, misey guts aren't i) plus being close to pool is not always a bonus as for noise, but i suppose holiday makers won't care for the short term.

Main thing is do your homework and good luck.

Richards comments and information are spot on. Furniture packages generally have a mark up on them as well, so if you want it furnished, do it yourself. Forget the developers reasons for selling  – as you say , just a sales pitch and plus if he has to drop the price, it's simply because he can't sell them. I would be very surprised if it came in on Valuation, particulalry as a holiday let property. The worst thing in my experience with valuers is that there appears to be no science to it and just depends on one mans mindset on the day, you could have seven valuers value the same house and quite likely have seven different valuations. (anyway, thats just my rant on them). Also, warning bells ring with me when they start "warming you up" for the low Val right from the get go.

Tourism, which is where you are looking to get the income from is down. Yes, they take half of your income for all the hard work of changing sheets for you and beware if the developer still owns units in there because you know who's unit the manager is going to keep full. Not only because he will be directed to, but the developer can then show above average figures to sell on more units. Guaranteed rents always scare me as well.

Also check the agents commissions, if they are more that REIQ, than no matter what their argument, your are paying for it. Check on line or ring as many agents in Cairns as you can – who are not selling these units – and get a feel for prices, 420K seems pretty high to me.

For what it is worth, i would never buy holiday let units. you say the bio fuel industry is kicking off and defence is going strong, if you are determeined to buy in Cairns, get something for permanent rentals.