one thing I would like to add, I think things get really difficult if you redraw again… >.<… I assume at this point however one should be considering getting an entirely separate loan lol
***ANSWERED*** (however un-verified by an accountant figure) Disclaimer/Warning: Errr, yeah… so while thismakes sense to me, I'm no accountant and Terry's stated the same. Anyone with a background in accounting is more than welcome to either verify or add to the reasoning in fact, I encourage someone to
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To close off this thread in case anyone else does read it,
Using Redrawn money to buy shares from a non-deductible loan will convert that portion of the loan into a tax-deductible interest portion. The redrawn amount should be calculated as a % and that % used when calculating how much interest is deductible.
Example.
DEDUCTIBILITY 100,000 loan on a block of land with 20,000 redraw (extra repayments on top of interest): total amount owing 80,000. Interest rate of 10% (to make things simple, however we may be heading that way)
10,000 is redrawn to buy shares, bringing the total amount owing to 90,000.
10,000 as a % of 90,000 is 11.11%
90,000 @ 10% pa = $9,000 interest, of which 11.11% is tax deductible
9,000 x 11.11% = $999.9 deductible interest
EXTRA REPAYMENTS Any extra repayments are treated the same way as above. 11.11% will always be deductible, as you can't choose which portion of the loan is to be repaid.
10,000 payed back into the account will actually be treated as 11.11% payed back into the tax deducible portion of the loan, and the remaining 88.89% into the non deductible.
So back to 100,000 loan with 90,000 owing, 10,000 paid back into the account bringing us back to a total of 80,000 owing. As we're playing with percentages here, in the end 11.11% of the interest is still going to be tax deductible as the 10,000 payed back into the account is split as such
10,000 x 11.11% = $1111 payed back to the "shares" portion of the loan 10,000 x 88.88% = $8888 payed back into the "land" portion of the loan
Therefore, 80,000 @ 10% = $8,000 interest of which 11.11% is tax deductible, = $888.88
I assume you would you calculate it the same way if only the portion used for shares were going to be claimed, and the remainder not.
My entire buying amount incl brokerage was 5831.90… my entire loan amount is 91k, but I had 22k redraw (69k owing). Now that I've redrawn the 5831.90, obviously my owing amount is now ~ 75k, I assume with your calculations that I should calculate the % of interest towards shares as ~7.7% (5831.90 as a % of 75k)
I'd still like to know how one would prove that if I pay an extra 5831.90 into my home loan, that it won't be considered as paying off the "shares" portion of the loan… I suppose this is why people generally take out a new loan to invest in shares (via margin lending?)
Ok, so I've now redrawn 6k and bought shares with them. When push comes to shove how does one prove that any extra repayments going into the homeloan are not paying off the redrawn funds for the shares?
I'm hesitant to claim the interest that the 6k is incurring (though I feel that I would be entitled to) on the basis that I don't know how to prove that if I were to pay a further 6k extra into my loan, that I weren't paying off the "shares" money.
wow. Hadn't realized this were possible. While my intention has always been to build to invest, I don't know how I can prove it, or if I've already left it too late. It'll probably be years before I can afford to build on it
Why do you say that "obviously" the interest on vacant land is not deductible when it certainly can be, if you are, or intended to, own the land with investment in mind?
If you borrow money to buy shares then it sounds like you are borrowing for investment purposes. Taking money from a redraw is the same as borrowing. i would be claiming the interest if I did it.
if your loan was IO, it would be easy to aportion the interest – it would be as straigh percentage.
I thought that interest on a non-earning investment (block of land), was only allowed to be added to the cost base of a property upon sale. My intention with this block has always been to build for investment, but how does one prove that. In my case it may be a few years before I can afford to actually build out there.
I do apologize as I got somewhat distracted from the original subject title of my post.
There were a few questions I had about converting a property from one to the other.
1.) If you buy as an IP and at a later point convert to PPoR, is the conversion process as simple as not claiming any expenses from the time you start living in it?
2.) Pretty much the same in reverse. PPoR to IP, you simply start claiming all expenses?
I forgot also to mention that he will be using the 70k to pay off the Loan on the Dual Key and 1x block of land
Me and my mate are just discussing the possibilities as he wishes to live there at some point anyway. The 2 scenarios we're playing around with are (using the numbers in the previous post as reference)
1.) To offset the larger income that he will be making this year through the sale of the block of land, is it best to have him buy as an IP while I rent from him. This allows him to claim all the buying expenses, interest, etc for ~7 months. It however means he will also be claiming my "mates rate" rent of ~$120 p/w
2.) To simply buy as PPoR and both of us move in, while I pay him cash in hand ~$75 p/w
To be honest Jaffa, I don't know. I believe I misinterpreted the Concession dates, and I'm not sure they still apply today. I was hoping to run into someone else who knows about these concessions here
Also I believe that at the moment building on my Land would be getting a bit ahead of the market. My initial plan was to pay the block off within 5 years and build ~1-2 years after that.
I've just been pumping any spare cash into my Mortgage, which I know isn't the most efficient way to "invest" but as it stands, it's the easiest way to save my money.
Gosh I got a few big things wrong. I'm trying to find the article I read that mentioned children paying Board at home, and how the money was treated, as I recall reading something about family members in general. However I may just be dreaming.
I realize now that the dates are no longer applicable.
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Transfer duty relief for first home buyers until 31 July 2004
Under the new transfer duty arrangements, no duty will apply to the purchase of a first home up to $250,000.
Where the price exceeds $250,000, the existing transfer duty arrangements set out in columns 1 and 2 of Table 1 continue to apply. In addition, however, a first home duty rebate will apply. This rebate is capped at $2,500 and reduces by $100 for every $10,000 over $250,000. The rebate cuts out completely for homes costing $500,000 or more.
Followed by
New mortgage relief for first home mortgages
Under the new mortgage duty arrangements, no mortgage duty will be payable by a first home borrower for the first $250,000 of a loan to buy or build their first home.
Mortgage duty, at the rate of $0.40 per $100 or part of $100, will apply to any amount secured in excess of $250,000.
If you are currently still owing on your PPoR you may consider talking to your accountant about the ever popular "6 year rule". As of yet though, I don't know of anyone who has put this rule into practice, however I haven't been searching.
It basically states that you can rent out your PPoR for a period up to 6 years, and provided you move back in, have the property remain vacant after 6 years, or sell, you will not be liable for CGT upon sale. The 6 years renews if you choose to move back out again. You basically convert your PPoR into an IP for the rented period.
So depending on the loan amount and the interest on it, the rent you receive may be offset by the interest incurred.
Also I agree with Simon. Paying income tax is a good thing to complain about . Far better than starving and sleeping out in the cold. Doesn't mean you should grow complacent though
Thanks for the replies guys and sorry about the late one from me.
Raddles- I hope to contact you soon with relevant questions, I've got to think some up lol.
AmandaBS- Thanks for that, I read the article about Orion Springfield and surprisingly, for such a grand structure, this is the first I've heard of it.
I was wondering in this situation, depending on your current financial situation and if you’re both locally available:
Using Wanelad’s option of splitting the loan, if both Father and Daughter moved into the house until it could be deemed PPoR for both, then the Father moves out and “rents” his portion to his Daughter, could the Father treat it as an IP (thus making his portion of the loan Tax deductible) whilst also keeping free of paying CGT upon sale of the property, through the use of the 6 year rule?
I couldn’t find it at the ATO site, but I did find this from the FHOG site.
How long must I reside in the property for it to be my principal place of residence?
* If you have entered into an eligible transaction prior to 1 January 2004, there is no minimum period that you are required to live in the property to maintain your grant eligibility. However, the onus is on the applicant to prove that they have lived in the property as their principal place of residence, if requested by the Office of State Revenue.
* If you have entered into an eligible transaction on or after 1 January 2004, you must remain in continuous occupation for a period of at least six months.
Sorry to dredge up an old thread, and I know that it has been answered before but I can’t find that thread, but how long (in QLD) do you have to live in the home for it to be PPoR labelable
I live in the city and am very interested in any existing or potential groups/gatherings. I haven’t much to contribute at the moment but I’ll have heaps of questions