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  • Profile photo of CheevesFinancialCheevesFinancial
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    SDW:  Sure, I'd be happy to explain.  If anything at all, banks are only willing to give foreign national investors "commercial loans".  These loans are not condusive for single family homes.  The banks just don't have the appetite for it.  Also keep in mind that these loans are not available through your national banks ie.. Bank of America, Wells Fargo, etc… These are only available through local community banks that are willing to lend on their portfolio.   This means they hold and service the loan and don't sell it.  It is their own financial investment.

    The LVR is going to be a maximum of 75% for non-US Citizens.  I'm talking MAXIMUM, certainly no higher then this.  No exceptions to that rule unfortunately.  Again, they just don't have the appetite for it.

    Single family homes are not available through this program.  Again, the bank is looking for a minimum of a couple hundred grand in loan amount, otherwise, it's just not worth it to them to tie up their capital.

    They will lend less then 500k depending on the deal.  Definately not below $250k though. 

    Hope this helps.  I work a lot with banks and investors.  I've explored nearly every option for financing for foreigners.  I'm with Cushman & Wakefield in Florida who is a highly regarded firm.  We sometimes get banks to give our customers favorable terms.  This is it though unfortunately.

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Profile photo of CheevesFinancialCheevesFinancial
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    The simple answer is no.  The bank will not provide any financing leverage to you if you have to use equity for down payment reasons on a different deal.  Now, if you paid cash for a house here and owned it free and clear..THEN went to a bank asking for a mortgage of about 70% Loan To Value, then it's a big maybe.  They would still want you to deposit 2 years worth of debt into their institution.  Furthermore, these are for commercial loans… That is for multi family over 4 units.  They have no interest in lending for office or retail space, only multi family and typically nothing smaller then $500,000. 

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Fixed rate long term?  Doesn't exist.  Not even on commercial loans.  You can possibly get a 30 year amortized loan but for foreigners, I don't see a bank giving more then 5-7 years on a term.  This does not include Hard Money loans.  Only a fool would invest with hard money long term.

    In the U.S, foreigners from Canada only are given commercial loans.  However, you have to deposit 2 years worth of the properties' debt service into an interest bearing account with the lender.  It's still your money but it just has to sit there tied up for awhile. 

    Kiwis, Oz, etc are able to get commercial loans also in the states.  However you must have some proven experience in the submarket you buy in.  Do you own a rental property, vacation home?  Previous development experience?  Without it, there's no chance.

    Sundirtwater:  To be blunt, the loans you are looking for in foreign territory will be very very hard to come by. 

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Profile photo of CheevesFinancialCheevesFinancial
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    I find myself to be technically inclined but I can't figure out for the life of me how to upload a spreadsheet to show my financial model.  Any thoughts?  Freckle:  If you want to PM me your e-mail, I can send it to you and then you can share your thoughts with the forum? 

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Here's a small article on the F500 company being "lured" into the area.  My mistake, it's NOT a grant, it's an incentive.  It is different:  F500 Article

    Freckle:  We can agree to disagree again on certain topics.  When you ask why these companies haven't previously entered the FL market and are looking now.  Well, they were looking in the past.  The market crashed and that changed things quite a bit.  There were several corporate headquarters that gave up deposits on land once the market turned just to walk away.  I believe their insiders have kept FL on the backburner for a time like now.  I have fielded calls from Pharmeceutical companies that will be either HQ'ing or building satellite facilities in the Airport Commerce section of town.  There is more chatter for business growth in FL then there is in NJ, AZ, NV, etc…

    Regarding my 62% win percentage, that was arbitrary.  I wouldn't be where I am today at 62% but I will say that I have lost people money before.  But I'm also trusted by corporate executives to make decisions on when and where to buy.  So let's give me a little bit better of a win percentage then 62% :-)  .  My strategy with my long term clients is that if there is a deal that is a loser, get out early and get into something more favorable.  Take a step back before taking a leap forward.  I've seen too many agents ignore their losing customers which drags out losses and more pain.  This is glaring in the foreign national clientele.  Imagine me telling half of this forum that I don't like the investment I just advised you to buy 8 months ago and that I think it's a good idea to sell at 15% loss and buy another asset to make up for it.  I'd get laughed at and probably banned from this board!! 

    The financial model I will post calculates Cap Rate sensitivity.  The rule of thumb in new construction for instance is that if you can't stabilize your property upon completion and generate an 8% Cap Rate, it's too risky.  Anything above 8% is a good deal that should grade out well.  It's simple actually. 

    Lastly, I don't believe more then 10% of agents have good references for Property Mgmt.  In my area there are 1,000,000 PM's, and I would probably only trust about 4 of them.  I've done business with many companies and the 4 I have narrowed are companies I have worked with for years as has my firm.  They are the third party companies that make me look good or bad so I have a huge incentive to refer only the best….at least the best in my opinion.  PM's rape the profit from deals if you get hooked up with a bad one.  Don't even get me started on them..

    One of the reasons I like commercial deals in SW Florida is because the residential side of it is a frenzy and it will cap out.  It will become cheaper to rent then buy again until that ceiling deflates a bit.  That said, it's not a bubble.  The factors aren't in play for another bubble.  There's no sub prime… There are no bad mortgages… It just means that the cash investors (60% of buyers) will generate more income today and less in maybe 2 years before year 4 see's another increase…NOT A CRASH…a softening if you will.

    Lastly…foreign nationals…if they want to buy something…most are ignoring multi-family.  They shouldn't.  If you are looking for $100,000 or less to invest, that's up to you.  Good luck.  The smart money is on commercial multi-family. 

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Profile photo of CheevesFinancialCheevesFinancial
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    Now isn't this a constructive thread??  Ok Freckle, let's give each other the benefit of the doubt and assume we each make good representations of our investing ideas.  I'm licensed in NJ and FL so anything I state is likely going to be partially biased toward those areas.  That said, I'm also a devil's advocate.  Candidly, I have a good business in each state.  Getting an Oz investor on my team isn't something that's going to make or break my bank but certainly I'd value any opportunity to work with anyone.  I've worked with a lot of Oz investors, some directly from this forum who have asked me to keep their info private ESPECIALLY on this forum :-)  I love you guys and those I've met happen to be great drinking buddies!

    Truth of the matter is that investing is based on overall risk exposure.  If you go back to a thread I began a year ago here, I stated that investors need to utilize "old school fundamentals" of investing and that is CASH FLOW.  I've since opened my range to upside as well..a lot.  Why?  Well, I'm a little hungover this morning so don't have the desire to dig into charts and graphs that will likely get criticized anyway, but let's just say that I've got a pretty good track record with instinct and I'll live or die with my decisions and partially, so will my investors who hire me to do so for them or as a part of their team.  My long time clients have made and lost money with me but my average is over 62% which means at the end of the day we are on the plus side :-)  Wait, that's a sports gambling statistic….ah well, same for real estate!   I am doing 2 major construction developments that grade out very well for U.S investors.  For a foreign national, might be on the fringe of a good deal, but likely something they would pass on.  I'm basing this off of the convos I have with foreigners who want 10%+ Cap Rates or ROI.  There are a lot of folks who slam Detroit because it's the ghetto and that Cap Rates are inflated.  Probably true, but if you invest in good areas with limited risk exposure, the market is just not trading at double digit returns and in my opinion, if you are promoting a Class A or B neighborhood and showing ROI above 10%, that is a red flag to me…Not impossible, just not common. 

    Florida has pockets that are good right now for similar reasons.  Tampa, Ft. Myers, Cape Coral, Naples along the Gulf Coast are doing well because of job growth, low prices, tax incentives etc… Freckle, you say that the "steep recovery" is limited to certain areas of FL.  I agree with you.  That said, in those pockets of improvement, the growth isn't synthetic… It is organic as you dispute.  In fact, in Ft. Myers (if I can present just one example), there is a Fortune 500 company that is looking to bring in over 500 jobs with an average pay of $105,000 if they are granted a $4 million incentive for development.  Do you consider grant money synthetic?  I don't.  These grants have always existed for corporations.  Synthetic growth are deals like the "First Time Homebuyer Tax Credit"…."Cash For Clunkers", etc.  I call them "crutches" which would also mean synthetic… This Fortune 500 firm is not moving to the "desert" as you say, but they are moving to an area where population is denser, opportunity for perhaps "cheaper employment" exists for something they plan on expanding on, and cheap land, creating lower overhead.  This is very real and very organic. 

    I read a market study for supply and demand of rental units in this area.  The study was done by one of HUD's most reputable third party firms.  When I see corporate growth, combined with what I saw in the report, it makes the decision to invest a lot easier.  Problem is that this information is confidential and investors on the inside get there first and the foreigners get there last AFTER the good investors already exit.

    Point being…..get with the right broker that you can get a good inside with.  If you want to come in and invest $50,000 that won't get you much but ignorance from great agents and forced product with bad agents.  True story.  You want to be a player in the U.S if you have limited capital?  Get together with a forum like this for a cup of coffee somewhere.  Create the idea of Joint Venture.  Guess who is willing to finance for foreign JV's?  Yep, certain U.S banks, but only on commercial loans… so as you won't be able to finance a single unit home, how about an 8 unit apartment building, maybe 6…anything over 4 units is considered commercial and factoring $65k to 90k per unit on cost for land and construction, take that into considerating.  The time for small time units are OVER.  The pendulum has swung.  Commercial is where it's at.  I sell 1-4 unit buildings in NJ.  I laugh at what investors buy them at.  It's over market value and a bad decision on their part….but I represent the sellers up there so makes no difference to me.  Shows me investors are stupid and their agents only care about the $$$. 

    I don't force product on anyone.  I develop ideas, I brainstorm with the best, and I ask for my customers feedback.  All of this information to you OZ investors is a waste.  EDUCATION WITHOUT APPLICATION NETS YOU ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!    I see a lot of people crying on this board with most bashing brokers and properties, yet are afraid to touch anything.  Put your minds together and make a collective informative decision.  That's good business.

    For those interested, I am going to post a Discounted Cash Flow financial model.  This is the best way to analyze investment in my opinion.  If I post and people call me out as "pitching something", I have to say I already sold this :-)  I'm just showing an example of how I've been trained to analyze investment and probably something you could use to make better decisions here or in Oz.  Some of you may already know this model but I guarantee most don't.  I promise it's more complex then what you see on  a realtor website showing A + B = C.  It takes everything into equation besides location. 

    Have a great remainder of the weekend.  Hope I was able to elaborate a little.  If I missed addressing anything, let me know and I'll fight back :-)  Frozen Drink by the pool time!

    CHEEVES

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Across the boards, we are not seeing much buyer fallout.  However, loans with committments will need to be reinspected prior to closing.  So it's a small setback, but not something that will trigger a fall in prices.  Inventory is way low in Northern NJ and buyers aren't afraid of continuing to buy.  Just reporting what I'm seeing. 

    I expect to see a boom in the suburbs

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Cap Rates are about 8% and real actual 8%.  NJ has always made good investment property being so close to NYC.  Hurricane Sandy will only increase demand in the housing market.  Hurricane Andrew and Hurricane Katrina spurned growth. 

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    I could have been a millionaire!!  Double edge sword because I am a die hard Yankee fan!  But at least I had something to cheer for if the Yankees lost the series.  Baltimore proved to be a tough team.  I like them a lot.  Yes, Giants got some luck.. Cardinals never die though so the NLCS will be a great series! 

    I love this time of year.. Real Estate is in full swing in Florida since the snowbirds come down to spend their money during the winter.  In NJ, the assumption that sellers lower prices in cold months will have buyers out in droves….Yankees in the playoffs, Football is in full swing and New Jersey fall weather. 

    Life is good :-)

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    In my experience the hot deals never come to market and would never come to this kind of forum or be looking for Off shore investors per se  the agent listing them would already have his buyers lined up. And of course some could be off shore but  most domestic.

    Jay: You are correct with the above.  No such properties exist on a forum level with 15% yields.  Utter silliness and irresponsibility in misleading people as to what exists.  No wonder I get calls from foreign nationals asking for 15% Cap Rates in New York City.  I swear they do.  I am not sure whether to laugh, think its a prank call, etc.. Let's face it, NYC is not Florida, but understanding where the market is trading is a commercial brokers first responsibility. 

    It's been awhile since I posted, but I check in from time to time.  I had to set the record straight here on this topic. 

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    John USA Commercial –

    Sorry, but I had to stop reading when you said 15-25% Cap Rates were do-able in FL.  What struck me harder was the fact that you said you work for Marcus Millichap.  I don't want to name drop here but I work with 2 of the biggest MM reps in FL, one in Tampa and one in West Palm Beach.  A good friend of mine is the analytical geek of the MM offices in the NY Metro area.  That said, I get a lot of MM properties before they hit the market.  Not because I am overly important, but because I have closed deals with them many times. I can assure you MM does not trade anything close to that.  If they did, they would be out of business because they would be doing a huge disservice to their clients.

    Let me be subtle:  CLASS C ASSET CLASS INVESTMENT ARE NOT TRADING IN THE DOUBLE DIGITS!!  It is simple common sense.  There are gazillions of investors out there looking for an 8% Cap.  WHY WHY WHY would sellers sell at double digit cap rates when they KNOW the market is just not trading there. 

    That's all I have to say.  I can't believe I am dignifying this actually. 

    Jay:  Class A and C trade almost the same nationwide.  NJ, FL, AZ, CA, etc….. You and I seem to know where this conversation needs to end.  It is brokers and reps preaching double digit impossibilities that anger me because it misleads the public. 

    I'm literally sitting at my desk shaking my head. 

    John:  I can make you a millionaire in 30 days if you source me some double digit cap rate properties.  Give me a 12% + Pro Forma and I can STILL sell it.  Pro Formas are trading at about 10% right now maybe 12% in those really bad 15% occupied complexes that need 150% in cap X.  Let's see some inventory.  I'll sign an NCND with you just so I can look.  I just don't believe it or see it.  Sorry

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Nigel,

    I am going to play devils advocate here and go based on what I am seeing as a MF broker myself.  I broker most of my MF in NJ, but do some here and there in FL.  A few questions and comments I have and please correct me if I misunderstood:

    1. Foreign national financing at 60% and good rates?  Please point me to those banks.  I work with 3 brokers in NYC who cannot even sniff that.  60% and low rates is practically domestic investor terms.  If you are an investor, and buying out of state MF, banks will give you a hit to the down payment and push you down toward 60% on DOMESTIC investors.  I have not seen anything for foreigners.
    2. 17% Return / Cap Rates on assets better then C's?  Where?  In FL, AZ, parts of TX, NJ, NY, the market is trading at about 7.5% for C Class properties on average.  I see SOME getting 10% but not many.  The MF market is very competetive right now.  I don't buy into 17% net returns on MF.  The market simply isn't trading there anywhere. 
    3. How do you calculate Cap Rate on MF?  Do you consider vacancies / deductions?  Maintenance?  Common area expenses? 

    I'm just a little skeptical of your post.  I am far from a national broker, but I study MF trades in many areas.  I look at the Marcus Millichap and CBRE reports constantly.  Nothing is trading anything close to 17%.  Maybe a needle in a haystack?  But I don't see inventory doing so.  That's crazy.  Institutions would be all over anything trading better then 12%.

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    I have about a dozen OZ clients and I have a good relationship with them and in part I think it has to do with my brutal transparency.  I show them my own owner reports.  My property manager sits literally 20 feet from me.  In my 10-plex property, my rent comes in throughout the month, but I have faith in the tenants my PM puts in and I know I get paid.  It has been a proven trust my PM has earned on my own properties.  I tell my OZ investors that it won't get much better then this and even with me sitting 20 feet away from my PM, my rents are not collected on the 1st of the month and paid to me by the 5th.  Just doesn't happen.  Most OZ investors have understood.  SOme, I never heard from again, maybe because they expect better?  They will just run into a "yes sir" PM and learn the hard way. 

    Truth is, OZ investors have a not-so-positive reputation with the PM's I have spoken to locally and throughout the country while attending seminars.  I see where it stems and it comes down to who is most transparent and which US resource is willing to walk away from a deal if the investor is going to be a pain in the butt anyway.

    I know a very big PM out of Phoenix / Scottsdale Arizona.  Said out of all of the groups he has worked with, ie..German, Israel, Brazilian, UK, and OZ, the OZ investor has been the biggest problems.  Just saying what I hear.

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    Invest in 2 Class 'B' properties, make about 6-8% yield in an area with good upside potential.  Safest thing going right now.  The Class 'C' market has been struggling if you can find honest property managers that can post their 12 month ACTUAL yields instead of their double digit yields on paper.  Over the last month, I have analyzed a C property in Florida, Georgia and Arizona.  The one in Florida, I sold with an estimated yield on pro forma of 12.5% and then stated a "best guess" yield at 10%.  The property yielded 8.7%, and I was personally involved in this, met the tenants, background checks, etc. 

    The property in Georgia had a pro forma yield of 16% that actually yielded 4.6%.  The property in Arizona had a pro forma yield of 12% and it yielded less then 3% (maintenance issues and 3 turnovers in 1 year!). 

    Class B is where its at. 

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Hi SparkyOz…when are you going to e-mail or call me??  :-) 

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Jay:

    I'll say this with a grain of salt.  I am originally from NJ and ended up in FL accidentally in 2002 full time after playing a stint in the minor leagues for the Red Sox (why you always hear me pitching about the new stadium :-)

    I went to school all my life including all 4.5 years of college in NJ and studied Finance with full intentions on being an M&A guy on Wall Street..  Once my baseball career was finished, I decided to follow a friends lead into the FL real estate arena.  I had very little money at the time but purchased 3 vacant lots in Cape Coral.  In 5 months, tripled my money and became sold that FL was the place for me to be since that was my first real taste of money.  Ok, so I turned 8k into 22k.  Nothing to retire on but in my young 20's, I bought my first bottle of good tequila! 

    I learned and climbed quickly in FL.  Hired by a bank in 2005 to run their real estate division, a position I secured by blindly helping a developer affiliated with that bank get very difficult zoning and land entitlements on the Gulf of Mexico in Fort Myers.  A bit of skill and luck went into that but it catapulted me to high ranking positions at a bank who was eventually seized by FDIC.

    In 2005 while with the bank I became licensed in NJ.  Launced http://www.NewJerseyRealEstateGuys.com in 2008 and it has quickly grown into a lead-generating animal.  During my time in NJ, I loved it and begged the wife to relocate back.  For one reason and this will hopefully answer your question:

    Let me preface by saying that the FL qualifications for teachers is far less difficult then it is in NJ.  I JUST LEARNED THIS as my child entered kindergarten.  For years, I said to myself that business minded people are way more successful and competent up north then they are down south…For the most part at least and dealing with the people I have dealt with.  Florida leads the country in Multi-Level-Marketing.  Why?  Desperation.  What a garbage industry.  You don't see that up north.  Why?  Because its a garbage industry and we just don't buy into that crap up there.  Oh, and Florida also leads the nation in mortgage fraud, to boot.  Why?  Because mortgage fraud is easy and dummies take the short term gain with dealing with possible jail time later.  Yes, happens everywhere but way more in FL.  It's a proven stat.

    That said, unlicensed activity practically is non-existent up in NJ.  That is one of the reasons I favor the NJ economics and housing market moreso then anywhere else.  It starts with individual intelligence.  I'm sure there is unlicensed practices everywhere and I've read about them in NJ….But in area where education is less and intellect is less, your bottom feeders thrive into more unsophisticated arenas. 

    Jay:  I hate unlicensed activity.  The crappy part is, you deal with it in FL.  In NJ, you either have a license or you don't bring anything to the table.  To Floridians, this is a way of life.  To those up north, it's a slap in the fact to all of the hard earned education and accolades we have earned as a result of our education. 

    Still love Florida for what it offers, but we just don't deal with that crap up north.  This I know from tons of experience, not guess and bias.

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    The new opportunity… Cheapskates need not apply….New Jersey.

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Ryan,

    Where on earth do you make enough to cover all that overhead?  I am part owner of Weichert in Hoboken, NJ.  We are only a franchise, but our Weichert corporate office owned by Jim Weichert himself is barely this big!  Do you do real estate deals in NJ? 

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    SOLUTION!!  Sadly, I've done this before on my property.  On the plus side, IT WORKED!  Even had s red blinking light on it to appear real.

    http://www.adorama.com/SVISC300.html?gclid=

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Ahh yes.. Short term memory.  Good luck out there!

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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