Forum Replies Created
Generally there are no minimum block sizes (in Melbourne) and I have seen plenty of 2 unit developments on sites of less than 600sqm, including in Greater Dandenong. What the councils do is have differing requirements for setbacks, open space, site coverage etc which basically dictate how much development can go on the land. Greater Dandenong have three different residential area with differing restrictions so until it is know which area the block is in it is hard to know what is possible.
Once you have a development built or approved it is possible to get subdivision approved. However, without any development veseli is right, you would need 900-1000sqm.
There have been some fairly big changes to Greater Dandenongs planning policy and zoning recently. For example, they generally discourage double storey at the rear of the land now. So, you might not get approval for a development like on your neighbours property. Just something to be aware of. Best to give them a call and see what you can do.
To get a planning permit the majority of the costs will go to the drafting/town planning services rather than the council. There will be a list of the fees on the Casey website. All up with advertising fees (which you pay part way through the process) the council fees would probably be in the order of $800-$900.
Typically the unit projects I'm involved in involve 3 businesses: surveyor, designer and myself the town planner, though as mentioned above you can find all-in-one firms. The quotes that I've seen from designers seem to itemize the inclusions and exclusions pretty well. Also you can have a look on the Casey website as many of the councils have checklists and process flowcharts that may give you an idea of the overall process.
Cheers,
I would start by having a look at the Section 32 which you can get from the agent. This should contain a full recent copy of the title and plan of subdivision. This should show if there are any covenants on the title or restrictions/easements on the plan of subdivision.
Regards,
Hi Radracer,
From a town planning perspective it shouldn't be harder to subdivide in the time frame you gave. The only negative I can think of is that when it comes time to subdivide the council will expect the development to look like the approved plans and if there are changes that the council want fixed up it may be more costly to do further down the track. Also if there was a council contribution triggered by the subdivision that was based on a property valuation that could be significantly more expensive the longer you wait to subdivide. I'll leave the other questions to those experienced in those areas.
Regards,
Hi Roman,
I worked with Felicity Maxwell from Conwell Property Management on a project in Cheltenham. The website is http://www.comwellproperty.com.au/ . Not sure if they handle what you need, but they are in the right area of Melbourne.
Hi Paullie,
While I also don't work in WA I have seen a council in VIC that has rules around both the battleaxe and the site area. My thought on the difference between the site area and lot area is that the site area is where the house can be built, and the lot area includes the driveway which can't be built on, hence the reason that the battleaxe rear lot is bigger as it typically includes a driveway. However, best to have a talk with the council to get full clarification.
Best of luck,Hi Matt,
You've certainly got lots of people wanting to help! If you are still looking for someone, I work with a number of draftspeople who are based in the bayside area. I'm happy to pass on contact details if you want to get in touch.
Best of luck with the project,
Monty,
The "rule" around overlooking is that bedroom and living area windows shouldn't have views into neighbouring windows or backyards. If you have windows that will look towards your neighbours then as Hrub suggested there are treatments such as opaque glass, high windows or fixed screens that limit the views. Also there is a separate "rule" to limit internal overlooking between the properties on the site.Also in regards to the high school, there is nothing to say that you can't have windows that face it. They and the council may raise concerns but they don't have planning basis. Generally it is best for windows to face that way to minimise overlooking and provide full windows for the house. Also as they are north it is further argument.
In terms of whether there is enough space, I daresay that a lot is in the design. I have seen really skinny double storey houses that have gone in small backyards. You do need to remember that you will need car parking for each house (1-2 spaces depending on the number of bedrooms) and back or side yard for both houses (sometimes but not always you can use the front garden for the front house).
Hope this helps and good luck.
I worked for Moreland (planning department) for a short while a couple of years ago and agree that as a Council a lot of what they are doing is very exciting and innovative. Also when I was there the planners were working hard to get consistent decisions which I think helps.
As for Coburg, to me it seems like the equivalent of Surrey Hills. In the 90's it was seen as a bit far out but affordable compared to Camberwell and now look at it! Even though we are doing some inner city development the truth is we are still pushing out in the fringes so I believe some of these more middle ring areas will become the new spots.
Cheers,
MelanieHi Monty,
I can't help you with the costs, but I did think of a couple of other things:
1. When you are talking of subdividing a property of that size (in Melbourne) you need to start with development plans. The council will have to approve a design of the unit (and original house) before any subdivision will occur. As a rule any subdivided lot less than 300sqm will need house plans, and any lot up to around 450sqm will need at least indicative plans (i.e. plans to show that something can be built but not tied to the subdivision permit), however what councils require in the way of house plans differs with each area. Of course you can subdivide without building, but generally the development plan will be tied to the new lot.
2. I wouldn't think of this as a particularly fast process. I have had a fair bit of experience with the bayside councils and it is not unrealistic for a development permit to take at least 6 months to 18 months (if it ends up at VCAT) to go through the planning process.
3. If you can talk to the council town planners than they may be able to give you an idea of whether you have enough backyard space. I have certainly seen a unit on lots of 220sqm and below, but there are a lot of factors that can influence what can be built, such as the amount of car parking required, the size of backyards that the council wants etc.
Just some things to consider as you start the research suggested above.
Cheers,
Hi Property Rookie,
I work with several architects/draftspeople in the southern suburbs around Melbourne, it depends on which area as they often focus on a couple of suburbs. If you want to contact me I would be happy to give you some further advice.
Regards,
Hi Danny,
I would suggest that you have a look at the zoning and overlays for your site as a starting point. You can get that online from land.vic.gov.au (planning maps online). Then have a chat to someone as v8ghia suggested.Regards,
Hi Dougaldog,
"It depends" somes it up pretty well! As a first step I would have a look at the Neighbourhood Character Policy, this is one of the local policies for Bayside CC found here: http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/PlanningSchemes/bayside/home.html
Once you know your area and what is envisaged then you may have a better feel for what density would be accepted. Also check out if you have any overlays on the property as they can impose greater restrictions on a development. Finally there are some variations to the standard Clause 55 (requirements for setbacks, overshadowing, built form etc) in Bayside which will also impact on the development. Hopefully you can put this information together to get an idea of density. You can then talk to the council planners to see if you are on the right track.I work with several architects/designers out that way who I know do a fair amount of work in Bayside and would be happy pass on the details, if you are interested.
Most of the local councils have a planning register on their website, which will contain some details of all new applications received, so you could try having a look at that. If they don't have one on the website then you can always view one at the council office (they have to provide it).
A council planner will generally only search for specific addresses, which is not likely to help much for your type of searching.
Melanie Ellis
Town Planner
http://www.achangeofplan.com.auI agree with christianb. In my experience some designers, builders etc do not understand the planning process, therefore struggle to manage it effectively. Having said that, I am also aware that many Councils planners have too much on, so delays can occur just due to workload issues. If this is the main issue then if you try to organise a meeting with the planner they may be reluctant. As the owner you can change who the Council communicates with (in Victoria anyway), so if you think the process isn't being handled right maybe you should make yourself the contact so that you are in control!
Also, as for time issues. I have done work for several councils in Melbourne and multi unit developments can take much longer than people anticipate. If there are issues, objections etc 12-18 months until a decision is unfortunately not uncommon.
Regards,
Melanie Ellis
Town Planner
http://www.achangeofplan.com.auSeeing other multiple dwelling developments in the area is no indication because
A. they may not have the covenant
B. it used to be the case that a council was not required to check if there were any covenants on the land before issuing a permit, therefore they could issue something that was in breach of a covenant and it could then be built.GeraldineM wrote:Hi Winzer.They gave me the name of their conveyancer/landbroker, who told me that the original developer no longer existed and another entity had authority over the original covenants. Apparently they were now looking favorably on subivisions, and she was able to handle the process for us.
I was not aware of any such thing, you may need legal advice. My understanding was that covenants went with the land and other than when they were to do with getting approval from some sort of developer committee or the like, had nothing to do with the developer after they are registered. However, myexperience is from handling planning applications for covenant variations, so I am only aware of applying through the local council or the supreme court.
Cheers,
Melanie
Town Planner
http://www.achangeofplan.com.aujcso99 wrote:Hi all,I am looking to develop 4 unit townhouses in Bayswater, Victoria. My initial thought is to engage a draftsman/architect who would help me with drawing up initial plans to secure the town planning permit. Once that is done, the same draftsman/architect will get the detailed construction drawings and other necessary documentation to obtain the building permit. Once that is done, will engage a builder to start the construction and engage a contract administrator to oversee the builder on regular basis.
Would appreciate your feedback on my thoughts.
Hi John,
Make sure you find someone who is genuinely familiar with TP as at least one of the councils that covers Bayswater has more requirements than the state standard regarding things like setbacks and amount of private open space. It can end up wasting a lot of time if they submit something that does not meet the local requirements or could end up with a refusal.
Regards,
Melanie Ellis
Change of Plan
http://www.achangeofplan.com.auI thought it might be worth noting a couple of things, this applies to Victoria (each state has it's own rules). I'm not sure where you are:
- A subdivision or dual occupancy will require a planning permit
- Different councils have rules around if they will accept a subdivision only application or if they will require house plans too.
- Once you get a permit for a second (or third, or fourth etc) house the subdivision side of things can be done and is usually fairly straight forward.
Melanie Ellis
Change of Plan
http://www.achangeofplan.com.auMy experience in Melbourne, having worked at a number of councils is that generally they don't like the car parking in front of the house – enough to refuse it. Usually the options with car parking with an existing house is either separate access for each house (only really works for corners or wide sites) or putting it behind the existing house. With putting it behind the house you obviously need to still have sufficient space for a back yard. Often keeping the existing house can overly constrain the site.
Melanie Ellis
Change of Plan
http://www.achangeofplan.com.au
