Celivia, NEVER confuse what is legal with what is ethical.

It may be in your opinion unethical to pay less than someone asks for a property – however it is 100% legal. With a willing seller & a willing buyer whatever price is agreed is fair. Using information or relative power to influence that point is also legal up to the point where you actually break a law.

Acey I did not say that paying less than asking price for a property is unethical. WHat I said was that taking advantage of people in financial difficulty and paying PEANUTS for a property is not OK (whether it’s legal or not. We all know that the legal system/law needs updating from time to time and is sometimes lagging).

Negotiating a price which both buyer AND vendor are happy with is fine in MY viewpoint.
It’s (knowingly) ruining people’s lives by badly lowballing the real value of a property that in MY view is unethical and should be made illegal.

Stealing someone’s hard work – be it their writing, their singing or other copywritten material is ILLEGAL. Whether you believe it is ethical or not doesn’t enter into it.

True, Acey, the point is whether it’s legal, not whether it’s unethical. Did I say it was ethical, tell me where I said that?
I do agree with you that it is neither legal nor ethical.

But all I was saying (or trying to say) is that REGARDLESS whether it’s illegal people still do borrow CDs etc of friends or even copy it. I am talking about reality here.
So all I wanted to do is make the point clear that Native Metal gets attacked badly for having a copy of Steve’s Nobrainer in his possession, whereas it is very likely that the people criticising him have actually themselves borrowed or copied materials from friends.

I do respect you if you do have such incredibly high standards and ethics to never borrow anything at all yourself. THere are not many saints on Earth who never do anything unethical or illegal!

SO do you now understand the point I was making: Pot blaming the kettle for being black case.
I was not making the point: I find this ethical!

Frankly your viewpoint needs to be reconsidered. I bet you wouldn’t feel the same way if you had ever produced a work and sold it under copyright…then seen some people boasting about how they have an illegal copy. It’s dollars for feeding your family and it’s just plain rude as well (which is Steve’s point).

I’m sure this point doesn’t have to be discussed since I have explained above my viewpoint and you surely understand it now.
In case you don’t: Yes I do think it’s unethical.
BUT in reality people DO borrow and copy.
Except of couse for saints like yourself who always refuse to borrow from friends.

If you hold the view that everyone who publishes a work under copyright is wealthy and ‘can afford it’ – well you’re the one deluding yourself and behaving unethically!

Acey where did I say that it is my view that EVERYONE who pyublishes a work under copyright is wealthy and can afford it????
Well lucky it wasn’t me who said hat, otherwise I would have been deluding myself and behaved unethically!
I feel you are attacking me on things that I have not said, that are merely YOUR interpretation of what I said that you are attacking.

Think about your attitude some more.

OK Acey I will think about my attitude some more, I always thing about my attitude because I do realise I am not perfect, there is room for improvement or to update my attitude!

Nobody is perfect, we are all learning and making mistakes and struggle with our attitudes and morals in life.

So, Acey, keep the advice coming, it’s great to have the help of someone who has already done the hard work and sitting upon that pedestal. For me, I’m still climbing, so do reach out to us, us mere mortals!