Forum Replies Created
I think that whilst the developed countries continue economic growth, then it’s populations will continue to use credit, which has never been easier or more affordable, sadly. This is what is allowing the undeveloped world to grow. It’s a win-win like never before, and will continue, IMHO, for as long as the developed world can ‘carry’ the load of developing these countries by buying their comparitatively cheap goods. Every thing hinges on that!
Bottom line…as time goes on, and the more the west can get the 1.3B people in China, (for eq) to work, which improves their capability to continue to work, then things will continue as they are … until these undeveloped countries are forced to lift their prices. Thats the time to really start worrying, IMHO.
No one can afford to allow inflation and interest rates to come along and spoil the party. However, there is not enough control on how people spend their credit which leads to a frightening current account deficit.
I think the RBA is really wanting to scare people out of spending, which is good at the moment, but it has a flow on affects on RE prices. We need this pause to take stock and to rationalise expenditure on nonproductive/speculative/wasteful purchases.
Once people start seeing stability in interest rates, and start to divert their spending into their debt out of fear, then I think RE prices will again start to consolidate and rise.
The good thing for Australia is as the undeveloped world continues to grow, they will increasingly need our resources.
Relax, and have a properous new year.
Nat R, you have only reinforced my despair of the damage that greed and self-interest can do to people and society. Nothing you have said changes my opinion about you, in fact, I hope people here, at least, might be better informed about the nature of the small percentage of small-minded people, like you, who are quite prepared to gleefully ‘screw’ people, less fortunate than themselves. Your ill-gotten gains will always stand between you and a conscious…what value is there in that, I hear you say.
I guess I should have expected the RE industry not to welcome competition, however, I am surprised at the depth they appear prepared to stoop to stamp out the private vendor just trying to get a better deal for his family. They deserve their pitiful reputation, and more, that they have ‘earnt’ at the hard expense of society …($$$Billions every year).
I’ve done alot of research reading private vendor success stories confirming the talent that private vendors do have in successfully negotiating their own deals saving them many thousands in RE commissions.
People everywhere should educate themselve at how little training and experience ‘professional’ REAs need to have before they’re let loose on negotiating on behalf of people’s biggest assets…I was shocked… something like a two week tafe course (at most)…and that make them experts!!! That needs to be changed. If it hasn’t been discussed here already, that would make an interesting and eye-opening thread, anyone…
I’m going to savour the memory of this discussion and the increasing unease and disgust, I have no doubt, that people like Nat R and the ‘professional’ REA industry will experience as they are increasingly proven wrong as they painfully read about the amazing inroads that the burgeoning private vendor market makes in Australia’s near future …
Thanks to those positive contributors to this thread.
No doubt you’ll have to have the last embittered say…
Thanking those who are helping get this thread back on topic, although Nat R persists in his put downs of me, I’ll leave Nat R with this…
How can you honestly sit here and say I ripped them off?YOU SAID IT!!! I don’t need to. That is the impression I have from what you have said. I quote you, yet again…
I have bought 2 houses off private vendors and both times I have been able to completly screw the vendor as they did not have anybody with any skills helping them with the negotiations.Seems clear enough to me, do I also detect an element of gloat and condescenion in dealing with ‘foolish’ private vendors. Well, do I?
The word, ‘screw’ implies the application of considerable pressure, to your considerable advantage, IMHO. Could you offer another interpretation where I wouldn’t form this opinion????
IMHO, it could easily be argued that you are in fact conducting commercial trading with, and exploiting these private vendors, who are your consumers of the types of deals where you have formed the opinion (it seems) that they are at quite a disadvantage to you…
Like your example, if it is an example of your modus operandi:
I can do a quick settlement to help you but my price has just dropped by $25,000 and will fall by another $5,000 every 24 hours, whatdo you want to do?to me, seems like exerting influence and/or undue pressure, if it is at all applicable to the case of those two private vendors who “did not have anybody with any skills helping them with the negotiations” implying, to my mind, that you knew that they were incapable of negotiating to their benefit(ie fairly) with/against you, and you took full advantage to ‘screw’ them.
So by your resoning they were the sharks …not me.Don’t put words into my mouth, you’ve only just told me they were ‘small time deveopers’, so how could I have had a chance to reason that???
You can twist and squirm all you like… I’m of the opinion that your own admissions here of ‘screwing’ people calls into question whether or not you’re suspect of unconscionable conduct in your commercial wheeling and dealing that you would have us here believe you carry on.
Reread your above quote and posts, until you understand and accept that I, and others here, might have trouble believing that you’re some innocent consumer hiding behing the TPA to protect you against those private vendors who you only now reveal as ‘small time developers’…aren’t you just as much a player?
In any case, I’m sure, you would be judged appropriately.
BTW: I’m trying to do you a favour in pointing out that you can’t treat people like fools and not end up making some of them your enermies, yet you continually dismiss me as a fool…???
I just don’t know how you can sleep peacefully at night?
Now I’m getting annoyed … I only started this thread to get some information about good website, and I end up having to say this:
To Nat R, and others…
You can attempt to justify, as much as you like, the reasons behind your actions when you delibrately set out to take advantage of people less fortunate or intelligent than you … or to ‘screw’ them out of their equally hard earnt money.
From memory, the Trade Practices Act (1974) classes such activity or trade as “unconscionable conduct”. Each breaches can result in penalties of up to $40,000 for an individual or up to $200,000 for a corporation.
If you have ever taken advantage of someone due to:
- mental incapacity
- lack of commercial experience or understanding
- lack of spoken or written english comprehension
- lack of education
- undue influence or pressure
old age
…and from what you have said Nat R,
I have bought 2 houses off private vendors and both times I have been able to completly screw the vendor as they did not have anybody with any skills helping them with the negotiations.it sounds like you have confessed as much … then you have most likely breached the TPA!!!! at least twice.
From my understanding, Society does not like or approve of people like you (if true) and seeks to protect it’s more vunerable people despite your apparent and expressed incapacity to understand why society wants fair deals between parties.
… are we still amused or concerned?
An astute person whose job it is to troll these types of web sites, could choose to easily track individuals like you down and investigate each and every deal you have ever done … and it could cost you, and your family dearly.
You could also be comprehensively sued by the aggreived party if they become sufficiently p***ed of with you…and it does happen, particularly when relatives become aware of unconscionable conduct.
Have your deals factored for such contingencies?
I’d summize that it is you, that’s either a very brave person, or the fool!
Do you really think that the other 99.9% of the sellers in the market have got it wrong by using agents?No, I’ve never said that…where did that come from? I respect people’s right to choose, unlike you.
Whether you are ever capable of respecting people who exercises their right to choose to sell their own property or not … your opinions expressed here simply, don’t matter. Nor will it stop the tide of people willing to give it a go.
Just don’t be surprised when Australia follows the US where 20% somehow manage to negotiate their own sales, just fine, without the expensive cost and dubious benefits of using REAs.
the world needs more people like youyes, it’ll be a feeding frensy for sharks like you. Just don’t be surprised if some of the people you ‘deal’ with, when you ‘screw’ them over, resent you as much as the huge majority of people loathe and resent self-serving REAs.
Already you have shown that you can’t emotianlly distance yourself from the sales process…this will lead to further problems as you try to sell the place.Here, we are not in a sales process…at all.
Though, as a person fundementally respectful of others and their plights, I reserve the right to emotionally distance myself from someone of the likes of you who can gloat that they can callously ‘screw’ people with whom they dare claim they have reached a ‘deal’…the devil’s MO.
As a seller, I can afford to ‘deal’ with someone who I determine has a mutual respect for me and the process…yeah, I can.
You also make too many generalisations regarding your assesment of the current market and of the power of a buyers’ hand holding a withered cheque before a sellers eyes … the seller has the final say (bank foreclosures, aside)…so I would question your ability to negotiate sucessfully with people not desperate to sell, like me. Perhaps you’re not as skilled a negotiator as you think? Perhaps you’re ‘best’ with the hard luck vendors.
I’ve read too many examples of the delight and empowerment had by dozens of sucessful private sellers to allow you to ever emotionally ‘get to me’…though I can see you’ve tried very hard.
Hope you don’t mind me feeding off your negativity, I thrive on proving people like you, and the common REA, wrong.
I have bought 2 houses off private vendors and both times I have been able to completly screw the vendor as they did not have anybody with any skills helping them with the negotiations.You sound like a nice guy, NatR, NOT!
You may believe that you’re smart, and indeed be able to ‘screw’ unsuspecting and honest people, but you will one day be outsmarted, yourself …
For starters, you seem to draw the incorrect conclusion that because you have ‘screwed’ two private vendors, that all private vendors are the same…thats plain dumb, IMHO.
If you tried your version of negotiation ‘skills’ with me, I’d take reluctant pleasure in turning your obvious contempt for me back onto yourself … just as I am forced to derive what satisfaction I can from putting the many incompetent REAs that I’ve had the displeasure of having to deal with, back in their place in the food chain … bottom dwellers.
Most private vendors would be able to spot your ruthless and callous nature a mile away, and choose to sell at the same price to someone they simply liked better (if they had to sell)… and if they had any option at all…and you’d miss out on the bargain. Ethics does matter, and it pays better, and for longer…but I’m sure you know better and would disagree.
Can I look forward to an email virus from you, for daring to stare you and your type down?
people don’t trust real estate agents much – but they trust private sellers even less.It’s not personal, it’s just that there’s a certain “professionalism” that people expect to get from a REA, that people *believe* they won’t get from a private seller.
It’s statements like that, that lead me to wonder if you were a REA…
I’d say most private vendors know alot more and have more emotional attachment about their own property than any “professional” REA … about the good points and the bad.
I believe that a buyer, in a face to face meeting with a private vendor, they’d have more chance of spotting a fraud than with a “professional” REA who lives and dies by what he/she doesn’t say about a property, usually … the private vendor has far more riding on being truthful and would lose more face than the REA, and most buyers would know this, and have more chance of getting the truth about the property.
In fact, I think that if a private seller did intentionally put one over the buyer, when they bought, then they’d have a far better chance of legal redress. It’s kind of expected that the REA and it’s industry body would cleverly dismiss/deny a disgruntled buyers claims…it happens everyday.
When I read that book I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, I was amazed at just how little training and experience, a “professional” REA needs to ply their trade! If more people where aware of that fact, they might think twice about letting them do the negotiating on their largest asset.
I emailed a lady on that site about some acreage yesterday. She was shocked to even get my query. I guess that shows that either:1. She is overpriced.
2. She gets no interest for her property from the site.I think thats refreshing!!! and it illustrates my point, earlier.
From that one email, you’ve established the ‘real’ situation that you can use to your advantage in a real negotiation.
Would you get that information from a “professional” REA????
No, you’d get a response that suits the REA … something like, “Yes, perhaps the vendors asking price is somewhat high, but there is considerable interest from quite a few others keen on the property, so we need to act quickly … I think I might be able to get that price down if you’d like to submit an offer…”
I know what version of ‘honest’ I’d prefer to believe…
Regarding my ad…I got 7, yes seven, emails with attached viruses within 24hrs of me putting up a for sale sign! Thanks to my AV s/ware, though, no harm was done.
Who else but “professional” REAs would show such interest and determination to foil private sellers … hope it wasn’t anyone here, mmm … ???
Well, thanks for you reply, but I wonder if you’re a REA?
I’ve owned this land since 1987, and I’ve lost count of how many REAs have told me I wouldn’t get, $90K, $150K, and so on…and they have made me feel like a fool for daring to think that I would get what I believe it is worth at the time…despite their ‘expert’ opinions…they just want a sale, any sale.
I’d bet that they are the reason WHY prices have come down…they just want sales and don’t care if their commission is slightly less. They are actively conditioning sellers to now expect less, because it’s money in the their bank to now say that it’s a buyer’s market.
I take comfort in a graph I once saw in the newspaper covering the rise and rise of RE prices over the last 30 years, where, since the 70’s, real estate prices have always trended up, despite the inevitable periods of consolidation/adjustment.
I will get what I want for my property, I just have to be patient, which I am.
Maybe markets like the southern states are coming off, but I tend to believe that with 1000 people settling in SE QLD every week, that, despite the negative media, that prices in Brisbane will not fall too much, before natural demand/supply forces reasserts itself.
I think that selling privately has an enormous way to go if the US is any guide. There, about 20% are private sales, whereas here, it’s only 1-2% …
Plus, with the marketing power of the internet, like the site I’m listed on, REAs just seem too expensive to me…
“5 familys a week” moving to QLD sounds a bit low…I heard it was 1000 a week (50KPA)
In any case, its a healthy buffer for prices and rents.
Call me cynical …I’d doubt whether this additional and politically driven tax on IP investing in NSW increasing the state gov grab in an inflated and unstable market has been thought through by the NSW Gov, certainly not in a nation wide context.
In my opinion, this is a major tinkering which will have far reaching consequences of which no one can be sure…there are too many varables, both within the state, and ramifications through the rest of Australia It adds to the uncertainly for IP investing in NSW, and places NSW IP investors as conspicuously set upon and dissadvantaged in a national context. It is why QLDs Peter Beattie is rubbing his hands with glee at the prospects of more NSW investor/AUS super fund money heading his way. Steve Bracks is similarly impressed.
I’m expecting a backflip (adjustment) once the Mr Carr witnesses that the ‘horse has bolted’. The question is how long will it take him to wise up whilst attempting to minimise fallout and save face?
If I were a NSW investor, I’d hold, allowing prices to perhaps even increase if others did so en mass, allow the pollies to get the greed/pride out of their system, and take additional profit once any backflip happens.
The danger is if an elected Latham attempts this on a national level…
… my 2c worth
First post … yah.
Like you, I was interested in engineering and headed off and did engineering, though once I graduated I found Australia industry didn’t provide work in the field I loved so headed OS … I found though, that I had, what turned out to be a very useful head for finance … I’m yet to suffer an investment loss, though I am prepared for that inevitable scenario. I have always been determined to keep my feet firmly on the ground.
The thing that my degree did teach me, is the power of discipline. When most young people get their first job, they very quickly discover credit and debt…many sink before they learn to swim – with the current.
Credit has helped more people achieve financial independance than saving alone ever has through leverage, IMHO, if the correct attitude towards its use is established….preferably as early as possible. Savings mainly establishes discipline … your income and evidenced discipline in saving establishes debt servicability potential or credit worthiness.
Its important to maintain a balance of your objectives with what your financial situation at any time can afford…and that takes discipline. Credit is powerful, ask the banks, if used wisely
If I was 17 again, I’d realise the compound cost to my life that those thing ‘I keep blowing it’ on actually cost…oh, and choose your company wisely… alot of losers and sharks out there, good luck.
