G'day Oscar,

Great work sharing this info with the forum. 

It looks like a great site for you.

It would be great to catch up for a coffee when you've got a bit of time.

For now though, keep the wind in your sails while the Autumn sun is still shining.

All the best,

Breece

Hi SmartCube,

The first question I would ask is "for what purpose?"

Do you intend to live a simple life, close to schools, an activity centre with shops and amenities for you and your family to enjoy? 

Or are you looking to develop this property into 2-3 townhouses?

Point Cook has some advantages from a cost and amenity perspective, however there are very few opportunities to further subdivide the recently developed areas in and around PC.

Knox.. well Knox is another story when it comes to Town Planning. Lovely spot but they are doing everything in their power to avoid a gentle density increase.

The South East corridor has some benefits, from established communities, schools and activity centres, as well as reasonable public transport into town for you and your wife.

Consider your primary motivation and spend some time getting familiar with the areas as you narrow down your search.

Best of luck!

Breece

Hi bnd,

The Strategic Planning unit in a Council deals with Planning Scheme Amendments (rezonings), Urban Design Frameworks, Structure Plans.

You need to contact the Statutory Planning Department to discuss the redevelopment of your property.

(Sorry to nit-pick everyone, but it will save lots of time by not having to explain your story to the wrong person, then repeat it).

To respond to some of your questions bnd, please see below:

1. Will 3 units fit on 570sqm or are we better off building 2 generous sized? (I think we'd make better money off 3?)

No one will be able to confidently answer this until you have carried out a Property Development Assessment by a professional.

From experience, I can tell you that Keon Park (and many other suburbs in Darebin) are impacted by Single Dwelling Covenants, with the beneficiaries in some cases extending out into the hundreds due to the historical application of covenants during the initial subdivision of land in the northern suburbs. 

– Ensure you ask the right questions and get detailed answers before you commit to anything.

– Understand what you want and have a plan.

– Understand the context you are working in – from the local planning controls to re-sales/rental income.

– Have an understanding of the process, even if someone else manages your project.

– Budget for $1,500/m2 delivery costs. (This includes all planning, design, and build costs)

– Get good advice early. The profits are in the detail.

– Ensure you have a sound team with the relevant expertise at hand.

– Get the right structure in place to minimise tax.

2. Can we look at having the weatherboard house leased out for another 12 months while we get the building started on the first one or 2 units? or is it too much headache, or will it not even save us on costs?

Plan for this early. Expect your Town Planning and Design stages to take 6-8 months before you commence site works. 

Remember, you need to allow for concept plans, the planning application, working drawings, specifications, planning and building approvals, and any contingencies due to site specific controls.

It may be that from Day 1, you allow for a 12 month lease on the existing dwelling.

It's all about timing your project effectively.

3. Where could we possibly look at selling the weatherboard house – this would save on demolishing costs? (is it worth it?)

There are a number of demolition companies in Melbourne who recycle components of old houses. However, if the property is in good condition and well sited on the block, I would consider options which include retention of this dwelling.

4. Is a larger company, i.e. carlise homes, vs private builder the way to go, given the fact our budget is small? ( Looking at maybe less than 150k each unit)

This is entirely dependent on what your development priorities are.

Before you do anything, do your due diligence and get a Property Development Assessment completed.

This will provide you with your Development Options, Construction costs, Planning and Design costs, Feasibility of options, and your financial strategy. All of these considerations are driven by your budget.

We are currently building a 3 bedroom townhouse in Glenroy on a construction budget of $165,000. Our client in that scenario prioritised cost over size, and finish. This was decided after analysing the information contained within his Property Development Assessement (PDA).

Given the site information you have provided, and from experience in that area, I would consider your priorities would be to ensure you can achieve your development goals (2 or 3 units), within the shortest possible timeframe, within your budget. 

Similar to our Glenroy client, I would suggest you are driven by cost. Is this correct?

So who is better suited to your needs?

Follow the advice above and get a strong team around you with the relevant experience. You will know who is best suited once you have assessed each company against your development plan.

5. We were thinking of selling maybe 2 and keeping 1 on rent.

It is good to settle on this plan early in the development process. 

As discussed above, plan early and have the right structure in place to minimise tax.

6. Typically how long may it take from time of planning, council, to selling these newly built units?

You will find a range of answers to this question from different sources.

Typically for your scenario it should take 6-8 months in the planning stage and 6-9 months in the construction stage.

It is not possible to give a firm timeframe this early in the process. There are too many variables that are yet to be resolved.

I hope this information assists you with your project. I hope it is an enjoyable and rewarding experience.

You will learn so much from your first project. Be prepared to ask hard questions of your team and ensure they take the time to explain the process, step by step.

All the best,

Breece

AlBosco, 

No worries, that's what we're all here for. Sharing info and helping each other out.

Some quick replies because it's past my bedtime…

1. The Knox Public Open Space contribution is 8.5% of the site value, or 8.5% of the land, or a combination of both.

It's truly shocking on a number of levels.

2. I breifly reviewed your site location in Aisbett Ave. There is some multi-unit development in the immediate area, but due care would need to be taken when considering this site for development given the R3Z and the GS3 Neighbourhood Character precinct. From experience, I can reliably inform you that the Neighbourhood Character policy is rather tricky, so please exercise caution. Many good folks have gone confidently before you…

3. If the existing dwelling is in good condition and doesn't impede the proposed additional development, we generally encourage our clients to retain it and renovate it as part of the development.

Why knock down a perfectly good house and lose $200k of potential profit on its replacement?

4. Your Plan A is much better than Plan B. 

5. I would strongly encourage you to seek professional advice at this point to complete a Property Development Assessment. There are plenty of excellent contributors to these forums, so please seek out either myself or one of the other Town Planners who contribute to PropertyInvesting.com

All the best Al,

Breece

We strongly recommend our clients use the services of Stacey Surveying, as we have found Ash to be competitive on price and simply the best surveyor when it comes to attention to detail.

I cannot speak highly enough of his professionalism and drive to deliver the best service possible. It has been wonderful to watch Ash's business grow. 

Here is an example of his recent work for our five townhouse project in Abbotsford. This is called a Feature & Level Survey and Site Analysis: http://pillarandpost.com.au/subdivision/stacey-surveying-feature-and-level-survey/

Ash's prices beat not just his competitors, but the recommended price set by The Institute of Surveyors.

As a developer, I recommend you build a strong team of knowledgeable consultants for small-lot development sites. There are too many horror stories of developers cutting corners or choosing to use the cheapest shyster in the market.

Thanks for the support Ash. I'm proud of our developing relationship as we continue to work closely to deliver quality services to our valued clients.

All the best,

Breece

Hi everyone, what a dispersed group we are! 

This is a great way to stay connected and learn from each other.

I'm really enjoying this new site layout and all the functions! 

I'm very fortunate to live in Albert Park, Victoria in a small townhouse with my lovely partner.

All the best,

Breece 

Hi The Pups,

We were actually talking about this situation the other day in the office. The way we see it, there are several doors that a client can enter through to commence their development. You’ve correctly identified a Land surveyor, Town planning consultant or an Architect as a logical first step.
If you prefer to do it yourself, most Council’s will take the time to give you as much basic info as they can.

There’s are a couple of helpful professionals on here such as ChristianB and Ashley that will gladly help you. My company provides these services but I’m not here touting for business.

All the best with your development.

Breece

Hi everyone,
Ashley, as always your information provided is very helpful. I appreciate the time you take on this forum.

We’ve found a lot of people coming to us with queries about the distinction between a straight subdivision of land versus a multi-unit development application. The obvious difference is that one cuts up the land whilst the other cuts up the land whilst providing for the development of the land. I’ve found both Ashley and ChristianB from this forum to be very helpful in assisting people get on the right track.

I have reviewed the material provided in the document Ashley attached above and would add some comments to build upon our lessons learnt. I’m hoping this will spark a discussion between the different disciplines of planning/architecture/surveying/engineering – and I fully encourage that!

This brings up an excellent point about “hidden costs”. These costs only remain “hidden” if you don’t know where to find them!

In Stage 1 under this process, the town planning fees can be variable based on the complexity of the lot and the specific planning controls that exist. Engaging with Council or one of the professionals listed above very early on in the process can save a lot of time and energy down the track. We encourage potential purchasers and new clients with existing properties to complete a Property Development Assessment as the first step in our process. This gives everyone certainty about the feasibility, costs and timeframes involved.

The subdivision process can be carried out concurrently with the Town Planning Permit process for Multi-unit Developments. This involves the additional step of engaging an Architect early on to work with your Land Surveyor and Town Planner to ensure the project is both feasible and financially viable. By drawing on these three disciplines you will arm yourself with the right information to get underway.

The document Ashley refers to above is based on a subdivision application in Logan City Council in SE QLD. Obviously there are locational dependent variations, but the principles described remain the same.

An example of these variations can be found in the Victorian Planning Provisions where we have what is known as a ‘Development Contributions Plan Overlay’. This overlay is usually placed over residential land in areas where Council require expensive capital works programs in order to improve the amenity and facilities through upgrades to roads/drainage or the provision of Community facilities such as community centres or pavilions in public open space. One of our clients last week found themselves covered by this particular overlay, and was able to factor in the $18,000 contribution for drainage works into their feasibility. It’s always best to complete your due diligence to find out what planning controls exist over your next development site. (Please never rely on the word of the Real Estate Agent…)

As always, seek good advice early, and work with your team to get the best outcome possible.

Merry Christmas everyone!

All the best,
Breece

Hi quickchick and Merf,
I know this particular property very well.

For all users of the forum, herein lies the danger of our variously different State based planning legislation. They’re all utterly different!
What is true in Queensland isn’t necessarily so down here in Victoria.

This is where it’s usually beneficial to engage a Town Planner to assess your site feasibility against the site specific planning controls.

Here in Victoria, there are no planning controls that limits dual occ development in the Residential 1 Zone to a specific minimum lot sizes.
The 300sqm rule of thumb is just a rule of thumb… And rules are made to be interpreted in different ways. It’s not uncommon nowadays to see three multi-unit developments with average lot sizes of 160-180sqm. (By the way, that doesn’t make it a new rule of thumb!)
Merf’s block is 570sqm. With the right design response the proposed architect Merf has engaged will design two dwellings that fit well into the site context. With a thorough planning report that assesses the proposed development against the Design response, Site and Neighbourhood description, the relevant State and Local planning policies, Particular provisions, zone and overlay controls, and the requirements of Clause 55 (ResCode), Merf will successfully gain a town planning permit from Kingston Council.

QuickChick makes a good point about liaising with local builders early in the process. Merf is fortunate that his proposed Architect has a proven track record and that he designs quality buildings that can be readily built to specification. (PM me for details).
Unfortunately when clients try to cut corners and use a cheap bottom-end Draftsman or Architect, it costs them valuable time and money. There are too many real-life horror stories to risk it.
So you might save $10k at the start of the project by not using a mid-level (e.g.) “XYZ Architects”.. When, by the end of the project your decision to engage (e.g) “ABC Drafting” has cost you at every turn, from the Town Planner who asks for design changes to meet compliance (Time/Money), the Councfurther requests further information (Time/Money), the building surveyor who won’t sign off on the building permit without additional details (Time/Money), to the builder who can’t read the working drawings and either makes errors or takes an additional 2 weeks on site…(Time/Money)
From personal experience, I can assure you it’s a slippery slope. Something about monkeys and peanuts.

So, what’s the moral of this story?
Seek the right advice early in the process and save yourself time and money.

All the best,
Breece