Forum Replies Created
good post waysolid
felicity. you are correct i was stereotyping. but only to provide a contrast against what i think are stereotypical attitudes. i agree there is heaps of room for people to make intelligent / educted choices about where to send there kids, and i also aknowledge at the end of the day this could very well be a private school. but wouldnt it be nice if the public schoolo system could have catered better for your child?? im sure you would agree!! then my question to you is this. what are YOU doing to try and make the public school system better?? what are YOU doing to try and make a great education possible for everyone? (not just kids with access to money)
why did you with a gifted child have to make a greater sacrifice than a rich person with a gifted child???
the point is that it doesnt have to be this way!!
there are heaps of things that schools dont teach you like judgment, ethics, persepctive, critical thinking etc.
lots more in this world to think about than a ter score!!
teach your kid that and it will be worth more than the 150k you would have spent at the end of his private school tuition.
the bible and talent. well i seem to remember jesus being offered the world (by the devil) and he said ‘no thanks!!’ talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. he had a access to money – had a great opportunity to build a dynasty financial dynasty and he said no. blatant underachiver that jesus. wouldnt know how to make a bob if he tried…although i hear chippies are on 50 bucks an hour in melbourne…
some of you talk as if making the most of your talent is the only important thing in life. little bit insular and selfish eh? again its all about you!!!!
its funny how private school parents never really question the decision they make. in fact the choice is seen, discussed with overwhelming pride. this is because the choice is also a status issue. the fact your children went to ‘grammer school’ makes you the parent feel a whole lot better about life.
the choice is always discussed in such a mature manner with phrases like ‘we looked at all the available alternatives’ and ‘we made a choice based on whats best for our child’ blah b;lah blah. of course you did and i wouldnt expect you to admit if you didnt.
what im calling for is a bit of perspective. also what a bout the kids being left behind. are you concerned about the gap? the class divide??? we are not a communist or socialist state but if you look at systems in scandanavia i think they have it right…
cheers
pelican – i have no idea how much of my money makes it to the child. i know this is an issue being talked about by various charities etc etc. i just have to have faith that these so called reputable organisations are doing there best to limit there adminsitrative expenditure and giving most to the cause they are pushing.
its an interesting topic but the truth is i dont have a problem with charity organisations that are a little top heavy. ive seen things terribly wrong in organisations that dont have the right planning, infrastructure etc to handle tha massive amounts of resourses they get allocated. world vision is a big name and im trusting that there is a certain amount of transperancy in what they do.
congratulations on your charitable efforts sofar.
btw my wife has in the past volunteered her time to children with physical disablities (i forgot to mention b4) and found it very rewarding.
good question emac
world vision – 2 kids. and pretty much whoever approaches me on the street or knocks on the door or asks at a intersection i give a few bucks. i should give more money to help with the homeless….i will..
i said something about tasmanians all looking alarmingly alike and you (kay) thought that was funny. i merely meant that there was not a huge multicultural mix whereas YOU took it to mean something about the gene pool – hehe….
(i think i got out of that one)very funny jo – not sure however how current that is – julian dicks is a real player (for england) and retired 5 years ago. but very funny nonetheless.
joh – dude – good plan however the place will be negatively geared though and probably by a fair bit as gearge points out. why not forget buying the place and the 4 of you rent a nice 500 k place in collingwood for 350 bucks – 4 bedrooms 90 bucks bucks each (take the bedroom with the ensuit). then with the remaining cashflow you have buy a place that you can better afford with a better return than 4 pct wch current rate in collingwood and surrounds. like a 250k 2 bedroom place near a train station in dandenong.
always remember you need cash to dine the ladies. btw sharing and caring is good for somethings but not others – if you know what i mean. you wanna remain friends remember.
happy hunting
no more please.
whos on first??
pelican. im not sure where i said earnign alot of money was bad. as i stated in another thread i also earn well into the 6 figure category. i have been since i was 25.
heres what i also know. i save a much bigger proportion of my income when i earnt 50k as a 22 year old than what i do as a 33 year old. and thats just a percentage. the actual amount is huge. so the more we earn the more we spend. nothing wrong with that.
but the other truth is that you dont have toi have alot of money to do good with it. the idea that when i make 1 million dollars then i will give back to the community is crap. we are all wealthy enuf to give now.
ps – if you check my posts i never said that earning alot of money was inherantly bad. i just dont think its inherantly great either. be careful what u wish for!!
marc – you make a good point about people who limit there expectations. i question however your view that we (you) are in total control of your destiny. and being a christian i also wonder how you approached this point.
on the contrary i think my strenght (if i may be so bold) is the realisation long ago that i wasnt in control. christianity calls it giving yourself up to god. your way too me seems a very stressfull way to live. not succeeding would surely be harmful to your psych.
i would have to nominate ‘luck’ as the single biggest determinant to being wealthy. i was wealthy when i was born a white male in a western, country. as soon as that happened the odds were stacked in my favour.
i still think your your efforts for self determination are admirable but i dont think they work for most of the world people. as i said in a previous post – try telling someone from a family of 15, whose lost half there siblings due to malnutrition, wjho has no access to water, who has very little in the way odf prospects that the key to there future success can be found in 5 monthly installments with tapes making promises about releasing the giant within
im not being rediculous either. there are millions more facing that reality than people debating the price of seminars on internet chatrooms.
one last point about living a ‘sustainable’ life rather than keep wanting more money. this is not a silly idea. infact corporations are beginning to realise that quick grabs for profit and always wanting keep the shareprice up here and now – might not be the best way to operate. the catchword now and in the future will be sustainable profits – we are starting to see this already.
i also think both have some value. the problem i have is at the moment the push toward private education and the increased costs seem a overwhelming. its a bit like the property bubble. it would be interesting to know the figures relating to
over the last 10 years
a) disposable income vs private school fees
b) average wage vs private school fees
c) personal debt attributed to private school fees.irrational exhuberance. are we saying that parents care more for there childrens eductation now then they did 10 years ago?? i dont think so!
its out of control and unless we as consumers make some concerted effort to redress what should be every child right to a equally great education, then we must then take responsibilty for being part of the problem. blind faith in any system without questioning it creates problems.
i reckon if interest rates go up you might see a shift back toward public education.
i reckon its very difficult to say that someone earns too much (unless they do so illegally). sportspeople, musicians etc earns heaps but they spend heaps and the wheels keep turning. if i spend too much time thinking about the inefficent allocation of money then i will go crazy. there are millions of cases where it could be argued that one person gets paid too much and the other gets paid too little.
as a trader i like to believe in the market. i would hope that if enuf people think that henry kaye charges too much money and they get ripped off then the next guy who tries to do the same will not get the same kind of response. these industries are cyclical and people make money when the going is good. it wont be long before the wealth creation industry goes into a lull – just like anything else.
the best thing i can do is be a alert consumer. if you think something is a rip off tell all you friends and dont hand over you money. jenmans of this world are merely a reaction against the proliferation of white toothed, smiley srukers.
marc 1 – i must say you do get very defensive when someone alludes to the idea that wealth and virtue are somehow not directly related. maybe you are planning a few simnars yourself. what do you intend to charge???
the idea that money, or the want of money, is a little evil surely is not that surprising. people do crazy things to get a few bucks (i have) – do you acknowledge that??? if you do then you will also recognise that the more we have the more we want and the process continues to the point that we just want more and more despite the fact that we dont need it.
(that can infact have evil consequences)someone once said that evil occurs when good men do nothing. maybe your inability to question the role of money in your life is stopping you from being a great man rather than just a good one!!
simon crean, brian howe, gareth evans (leaders of the opposition or dep primeministers) all went to melbourne high.
good points kay. its about changing the overall attitude.
hi trisha. i value my education but the truth is i got the level of education myself – ie my parents didnt pay as i received a scholarship. but having said that – if my children go to a private school i will not instill in them how much of a sacrifice i had to make to send them there. that would be silly. it is my choice as a parent to send the child to a private school so the child should never be beholden.
i do however understand human nature and if a child sees parents suffer to send them to a school i can understand that you would think you parents have done a great thing. i personally would not want to see my parents suffer neither would i want to suffer (inordinatley) in order to send the kids to an expensive school.
i get frustrated about the way people describe the suffereing and the sacrifices they have had to make to send there kids to private schools. it almost has a holy, virtuous connetation to it wch in my opinion undermines those who at no fault of there own cannot hope to compete (and send there kids to public schools).
should someone making a decent living earnign 50k a year feel somehow less virtous in the eyes of society because there child goes to a public school?? these are the issues that most of us dont understand!!
btw – i went to an elitist school and we had the largest class sizes in the state (above 30). i had very little one on one time but our pass rate was 99 pct.
horses for courses. dont fall for the spin.
also i think sending your kids to private schools is almost akin to putting your 2 year old infront of the television when you dont wanna parent anymore. just becuase yre kid goes to an expensive school doesnt mean that parents can then negelect other aspect of the childs infpormal education. in my experience those smart parents who send there children to public schools also take a more active part in the childs extra caricular activities. this can be the best way to produce a well rounded, informed person rather than institional brainwashing and seeing what comeout the other end!!
heres some examples of parents/adults not knowing what we are doing (so how can we be expected to know whats best for our kids)
-50 pct of the time we pick the wrong life partner (and this is only divorse figures)
– we spend more and more time taking to psychotherapists, mentors, reading self help books etc. this is a good thing but it also shows that we dont know what we are doing and we therefore need help.
– most men have midlife cirsis abpout the same time the choice of education happens. we dont even know how to choose a car let alone pick a school
– close to half (debatable) the usa adult population voted for george bush in the last election and will prob do the same in the next.
– 30 pct of the population still smoke even though we know it will kill us.
– rich people drive huge cars for no apparent reason…
these are all examples of adults and parents making very silly decisions. why cant you just except that the choice of schools is just as emotive as the above. if after you realise that in the main its a rediclous thing to spend so much energy on – and you still send your kids to private schools atleast you do fully aware that the choice at the end of the day is not that important..and parents should not be given too much cudos for their ‘sacrifices’ as they have explained. parents choice – simple as that.
hi trisha – i too am a product of an elitist education. i got a scholarship although my parents could have afforded to send me to the school anyway. i just dont fall for the ‘my parents skimpt and saved etc etc. so what? i didnt ask them too and maybe this effort was a little misguided. and who said it is the best possibl;e just because its the most expensive. i am playing the devils advocate here but the truth is that we are teaching our kids that the most expensive is the best. trish – is this true?? is the most expensive the best??? again its not as noble a persuit as its made out to be.
what you are also saying is that parents who cant afford to send there kids to private schools have somehow failed there children. trish is this true?? do you look doiwn on people who cant afford to send there kids to private schools.
off course you will say no that you are not that unkind. but the truth is that is exactly what you are saying – but you dont even know it!! its called hidden prejudice!!
on the subject of parents of private schol kids paying taxes/. that is true – then why not take advantage of that and send them to public schools – if you wanna go private then pay extra. just because i pay taxes doent mean i expect the govt to susidise my private golf course fees. this extra benefit so to speak is my choice so i should pay!!
its a tough subject but one that most parents are rarely accountable too becuase who would dare critisize a parent for wanting the best for their child. very emotive and very unfair. it breeds a certain unwillingness to consider the options…
i understand where you coming from anubis but i must admit to having a laugh when the arguement ‘parents have the right, and about parents making choices’ is used.
must admit to be cynical about the ability of most parents to make good choices for there kids. and thats the educated/wealthy ones aswell.
you know the one about parents needing licences to parents.
we (im a parent aswell) dont know why we make alot of the choices we make and this includes why we ‘really’ send our kids to private schools.
alot of us dress it up as some kind of noble persuit but i sense a more sinister undertone. more a subconscience display of fear, status envy, class structure etc…
what are we teaching our kids when a huge part of our lives is about finding money to send our kids to elite schools. we are teachjing them that money is important, that class is important, thatyou should spend in inordinate amount of mmoney, time, stress in ensuring that your child gets a subjective notion of what is a good education.
to me its pretty dumb. what happened to teaching your kids about charity, about moderation, about avoiding keeping up with the jones’s, about making good decisions based on the fact rather than on some fear that your child will be left behind.
if i do send my kids to a private school, and there is some small chance this will happen, i will also be spending alot of time letting them know that we do so with some trepidation, and let them know the fears that we might have….
i have some friends who spend huge amounts of money to give there kids the private school education that they ‘didnt’ have. and i said to them – why? whats wrong with you?? as in ‘you havve turned out ok and you went to high schools’. they looked at eachother dumbfounded as if this had never occured to them – and mumbled something about being lucky. the truth is they are very caught up in status issues – have a huge car, big house and a private school is just part of the equation. when a rich person finally admits this than ill have a party.
hehe
