Forum Replies Created
- usainvestor wrote:ubrowndog wrote:Apologies if this has already been posted – had a look and couldn't locate anything. I have just purchased a property in the US (Atlanta) under an LLC. The property management company has itemised the following fees:
Monthly fee: $50.00 Looks like they are charging you 10% management fee
Tenant sign on fee: $500.00 Again 1 months rent for finding tenant
Renewal fee: $250.00 2 weeks rent for signing the same tenant to a renewal??????
Recovery of late payments: 50%I was thinking this was a bit steep but after having a look at other property management fees for the Atlanta area, it seems reasonable. The property management company was recommended to me so I thought I'd post a blog to get some input from more experienced investors. This is my first attempt at investing overseas. Appreciate advice.
I have looked at the various fees from many different managing agents and I just find it incredible that the fees are so high, In particular the renewal fee for the sitting tenant – just ridiculous.
There are a myriad of other fees that they will charge you which seem to be anything at all to do with you property – apart from keep it on their listing.
What on earth do they provide for their 10% commission????
Getting away from the fees they want to charge the other aspects of the Leasing/management agreement that I despise are the set term instead of simply an agreement until such time that they fail to provide the services required. In Australia at most the RE's try for a 90 day agreement and are lucky to get 30 days. What's even worse with the Term clause is the wording which will automatically renew the term and further the term will be extended based the tenants term of the lease.
The other dozy is the clasue that selling to the tenant (tenants family, tenants friend or anybody that is in some way remotely connected with the tenant) will incur a Re commission and furthermore that this clause will survive the term of the management agreement.
It might be a business but at some point you need to give value for money!!!!
Regards
Not sure how it is back at home .Here in the USA management can make or break an investment deal. Folks here in the USA know paying for the right team is worth there weight in gold. Our staff alone has 4 full time people and then we have 3 handy men on call.We have a take home phone that is passed around with a 24 hr answering service. So yes it is a big commitment.
Some times you get what you pay for …..
I would not reduce our prices and do not feel bad about charging for them either…
Alex
DHCP wrote:I like your sense of homour Alex…you're writing is fineAs said before, "knowledged uninvested in activity is wasted". If you don't apply what you've learned, what's the point of learning it.
12 months ago, I spent a lot of time reading real estate investment books…spent about close to $1K…. The fundamental of real estate investment in the US and Australia has high degree of similarity (e.g., buy at the buttom of the market, sell on the top of the market, flip, buy old house add value through renovation (or rehab in the US) etc)…but that is where the similarities end. The US real estate market is massive compared with the size of our market here and a lot of variables to learn etc. So I armed my self with the fundamental stuff, did my due diligence and 12months later I bought 3 properties near Atlanta, GA. Now, that is "knowledged invested in activity leads to success".
Time permits, I will be doing what you love doing in the US, because for me Real Estate investment is a wealth building machine since wealth creation happens when you buy appreciating asset that generates passive income overtime. Some people do flip, that's fine, if you want to accelerate your cash, but if you sell your IP, you will never get a cent from that property again…it is like killing the goose that lay the golden egg. But, I challenge that notion specially if your IP is not performing well maybe time to sell up etc. So horses for courses. But, the opposite is true also, buy depreciating asset (e.g., car) and it looses in value the moment you drive it away from the showroom….this will decrease your NET WORTH.
WEATH CREATION IS ALL ABOUT NET WORTH.
I don't understand why people makes real estate investment a rocket science, it is not just do your home work (e.g., get educated, associate yourself with like minded people, like you guys here in this forum etc).
I've been in the IT industry for over a decade and time and time again, I see engineers make simple things complex…I also say this to them use my KISS method.
Keep
It
Simple
SonLove the part about yes keep it simple .Years ago I kept a fund ( $5k )for just education and seminars as I still do today. Instead now I find my self flying out to meet People like Jay Hinrichs. Funny we are both in the states and one of his companies actually lent me money years ago to buy and flip.With out direct contract met him threw this forum. Today I fly out to other teams that are successful, and see what I can do to better our system . I still go to seminars and read real estate related books.Heck if we can apply one technique we learn and it adds to our bottom line ( Great ) but you are correct this is not rocket science but simple rules must apply..
Well back to work and back to the grind.
I got a client flying in the 7th of Jan from this forum( Adelaide ). After the fact I think you can ask more about me and our company.
Alex
This is my two cents
I will speak about fighting not real estate for a moment. I been competing in Jui jitsu tournaments since 2000. Having won 66 matches and lost 6 ( six loses cost me a few dollars not wanting to tap ) The point I am trying to make is this is not a hobby but a job for me as is real estate. I could not do this by just reading books and listening to Guru"s.. Instead I had to walk the walk and talk the talk.
Now Jump to Real estate I am 38 years old the first book I read on real estate was Carlton sheets. I was a 21 year old bartending at hard Rock Cafe in Myrtle beach South Carolina. Long story short alot of these books do give you an idea and a map. They just leave out most of the details that you must learn from what I call the school of hard knocks.
I can add to what Jay and Cheeves said but not here to bash any one. I don't sell books . I think I can speak for most
We build real estate portfolio's buy raising private capital, selling and keeping some of homes for cash flow.All have different strategies .My real estate partner says as a joke we should jump in and get a book deal. So we can start selling information on how to raise capital, how to be a seminar speaker, doing your first radio show, or buying and selling houses. To be honest I still love the real estate game and the daily challenges it brings. I do know I am building my way to my own financial freedom one house at a time.
Sorry if my writing is not as clean as others. My wife who is awesome along with my staff. Usually checks and proof reads my writing for me …
Alex
ubrowndog wrote:Apologies if this has already been posted – had a look and couldn't locate anything. I have just purchased a property in the US (Atlanta) under an LLC. The property management company has itemised the following fees: Monthly fee: $50.00 very cheap.We charge 10 % in NC and South Carolina…Our Atlanta team charges10 %also Tenant sign on fee: $500.00 ( cheap we charge 50 % of rental first months retanl income (*yes we have a staff and over head and don't work for free as some of you would like)Renewal fee: $250.00 ( we charge same thing ) but if we keep your place rented for another year and done a solid job…Well worth paying.
Recovery of late payments: 50%( We pay for eviction asap so cost involved in that including staff hrs we charge for. Then anything left over we send to Owner ( yes property management is a full time business with a full time staff.Which needs licensing and cost of operation. So expect to pay.
I was thinking this was a bit steep but after having a look at other property management fees for the Atlanta area, it seems reasonable. The property management company was recommended to me so I thought I'd post a blog to get some input from more experienced investors. This is my first attempt at investing overseas. Appreciate advice.
jayhinrichs wrote:World Investor.All good questions.
1. Prices falling,,, In atlanta who really cares if they fall 10 or 20% are you going to sell tomorrow???? The prices are already off market hi's by 50% or better. The prices are now down so low that 10% drop means 4k big deal. 10 or 20% drop on a 400k home is a big deal. So those that do not take action thinking they can buy for 10% less will be trying to time the market and will miss the bottom no doubt. Luck is the only way you time the bottom. There is no investment expert that will tell you otherwise. Just like timing the top. thats my take on price. ( AA an investor I was buying houses in the hood for $25k , now I can buy houses in nice areas for under $20k . So I don't really care what the experts say.I am going off for me personally over 15 years off investing. Again we buy in bulk so I will keep what we don't sell.Cash flow is what I am after..
2. Amercians by and large do not share homes, other than having a child come back to live with them, or elderly parent. If they did the rental market would really tank. The Asian's and Mexicans though will definatly have 2 or 3 generations in one house. You have to take into consideration your demographics in the South East, 50% or better African american, as a demographic here in the US they have the most disrupted family structure of any group by far. And a very large % do not even know who their family is much less live together. Its a Matriarchial society. women and Mothers are the strenght of the family unit. The Men come and go. Many children have no idea who their father is, thats where the term Baby Mama and Baby Daddy comes from in the US.
If you watch American sports you will see all sorts of Human interest stories with our Black star's and how they were raised by their mother and or grandmother and never new or met the father. Just the way it is.
So in Atlanta your not going to get tight cohesive family units living in close quarters.( Jay says it rougher then I will but so true)
3. What I see in the rental market is on par with what Alex is talking about, there is no question huge amounts of properties being bought by Investors instead of going to Owner Occ's… Now this is great for investor short term long term not so great for neighborhoods if they get over run with rentals. Lithonia is perfect example if any one thinks I am full of it. Type in any address in Lithonia on Zillow notice the little red and yellow flags and purple flags. I am willing to bet les then 20 % are OCC but now are rentals. When a retail area becomes a rental area it's value will drop.4. The feedback we get from others in the industry is there are those that claim to have renters lined up for homes in Atlanta and if thats the case they are not doing enough DD on the tenant and are going to have a lot of issues with non payment trashing of units excetra. there is no doubt a lot of rental inventory and their are renters. We are not a volume shop for our fully managed program. So In each of our 4 markets we add 2 to 4 homes a month.. company wide thats a nice pace 8 to 10 a month however in our market we are very very selective on who we rent to. Much more so than say one of the big volume players that needs to get tenants in the houses to appeaze their client and live up to their representations that induced an investor to invest in the first place. We get an average ( like Alex in Charlotte) 4 to 6 applications before we take one. We do some Sec 8 but hey have to qualify as well. There are property managers that will slam sec. 8 in just for the rent realiability factor, but the tenant can be a bad one on phycially and do more damage then they are worth. I own the management company for the homes in Rock Hill SC and Charlotte NC. I can assure you I have been doing this for years.We have some great referrals but are turning down more tenants for Charlotte and Rock Hill then before. The group running things in Atlanta for us are seeing the same thing.So for any Aussie or American saying you have a waiting list of ready available tenants.Sorry you are full of it and taking people for a ride. We do have some people who pre qualify and we then find a home for them. Our current list of pre approved is 4 deep.
If your having problems finding foreclosures at your price range I can only take that to mean your looking at super low end prices. there are thousands of houses that can be bought just off the MLS for 30 to 60k… Depends on what you are looking…Just saw a house I bidding $35k on an Australian group purchased ( Well not sure what they purchased it for but they are selling it in Low 60 K with $15k or more rehab( I know this because they did not close and trying to flip the house first.. Same house I bid $35k and $45k was my highest and best. Type in any address on zillow and look for comps on what sold.Go to bottom left side and see what is for sale. Stop over paying is my advice for you guys…..The real trick is picking the best bang for the buck in the best areas and neighborhoods.. Proximety to the freeway for instance is huge in Atlanta. And Atlanta is geographically a very very large spread out MetroPlex.
God it is a huge city so hard to keep track of what and who…..I will start posting some deals from start to finish, to borrowed cash what I pay. This should give every one a good idea of what is our strategy for deals in Atlanta …From , purchase , to rehab , to all little cost involved with the deals…
That's the next chapter…
Alex
worldinvestor wrote:Alex SC wrote:worldinvestor wrote:Alex SC wrote:worldinvestor wrote:I would be keen on specifics on why you are investing in specific areas the pros and cons.I mentioned in previous post that I am investing in Atlanta. I do believe however that prices may still fall back. Your thoughts would be appreciated. With the amount of deals coming on the market.I think we will see a slight increase in prices.Then when the market get flooded we should see a drop.I could be wrong. Just sitting here talking to quite a few investors who not only buy but live in Atlanta. Some have lived there 20 plus years.
Thanks WI
I only deal in Atlanta and Charlotte NC
My thoughts are the rents will need to come down in Atlanta. As the flood of foreclosures hit the market.Prices are still going down.
I say this because what we bid on 6 months ago to now.I offer less and start my offers way lower.Most of my old offers were in the $30k now in the $20k range.With that being said the later months in the USA banks are always more negotiable.Which could be the reason for the lower numbers.
Now in Charlotte there are not as many foreclosures.Well let me change that there are alot of the homes.Just not the prices I am willing to buy at. Rental market still holding strong but turning down more renters then normal. I try to take the time of year into consideration when buying and renting homes. Nov and Dec always bad months for rental income in the USA .With the holidays 2 in row ( thanksgiving and Christmas) At the same time the first of the year great time for rentals.With the most blue collar workers in the USA doing rapid tax refund.This is one time the average person will have lump sum of money. To pay deposit and first months rent. I have had alot of tenants pay me for 3 to 6 months .During this first month of the new year .
Alex
Hi Alex
why will rents go down, what happens to those who lost their homes, don't they rent?Yes but reality if they lost their homes could not afford it. How will afford higher payments with rents.
I think there will be a flood of homes on the market after the first of the year. Again all this is speculation .
Alex
Hi Alex
I think the Atlanta market is very tight, I am finding it very difficult to source suitable foreclosures in my price range. Perhaps this will change, but the banks are strategic when releasing foreclosures. Banks make less sense then do investors some time..hard to get a grasp on what they are doing.I try to watch the moves our government , wall street , banks are working on or proposing. Just hard to tell. What I do see prices are lower then before.I just worry we are renting to people who lost there homes.I see people here in the USA and over seas thinking 20 % returns will hold long term. I don't see it …Think alot of people will be upset if rentals income does drop.
If you are right regarding rents, how are you personally mitigating this risk.? Already put another system in place . We are working on transitioning to owner finance the homes. Now the length of term is going to be the Key. This could be a win win situation for all involved.With out sharing to much we are basing these leases on 4 years , 8 years , 12 years.
Well that's all for now.
Alex
I hear folks in US like bigger homes, a investor I know suggested purchasing larger homes so you have perhaps the possibility of 2 families sharing, not sure whether this would work. Any thoughts.
DHCP wrote:Since i'm buying my third property in GA, near Atlanta, my educated guess of the final cost would be between 42K to 45K.
30K is what the Bank sold the property for but the reno cost, closing etc would push the total cost past 40K easily…but that's just my perogative but unless the figures are disclosed, we can only speculate based from experience.Beautiful home.
Awesome we are buying in bulk down there so some deals better then others.I will put 3 up here next week. I think this is a one of the better post.
I picked these properties up all short sales.From $19k to $28k ..One needed some rehab but most are going to be just cosmetic. For me as a hold and flip guy.We like to do a few things on all homes. New ac , new plumbing , and just some basic touch ups so always going to have some rehab..
So you all have a merry Christmas and hold me to posting the properties and my exact purchase price , with a detailed rehab list. I think this is what has been needed here for a bit.
Sincerely
Alex FranksAlex
My parents house in Port Jefferson Long Island close to the water.Picked up in 93 for $145k resold in early 2000 not sure exactly.Sold for just under $1m . Property Tax $16k a year. They moved to South Carolina purchased a bigger home for $120k and taxes of $1200 a year..They were happy to say the least…
Hudson I fought in a tournament in NJ can't ( think it was trenton but that was years ago. Even growing up in NY know nothing about NJ. That's that start of the South to any true NY person.LOL
Grapplers Quest was the event I fought in …back then
Alex
CheevesFinancial wrote:As most on this board are investors looking for cheap US property, I want to touch on another area. I've been with Weichert Realtors in Hoboken, NJ for quite some time and through my website, I analyze submarkets outside of New York City located in New Jersey within 12 miles of Manhattan. http://www.NewJerseyRealEstateGuys.com …Yes, if you go to that site, you will see a big picture of my ugly mugClick on this article when you are thru with my jabber: Hudson County Rental Market
In 2012, a report will come out that NJ created the most private sector jobs in 2011. The Garden State is definately going to record the largest annual gain in private sector jobs in more than a decade.
If you have ever been to NYC or Metro NJ, you will notice that it is very urban…Double that these days. Proximity is everything and Manhattan real estate buyers are overflowing into the NJ urban markets such as Hoboken, Jersey City, Bayonne, etc… From there, you can be in Port Authority or 33rd St in less time it takes to get there from the Upper West Side. About 7 minutes.
New Jersey is a market for buy and hold. Your Cap Rate on a single unit condo will be low, about 5%, but your long term growth potential is incredibly high. High dollar investors are also targeting the area including NYC due to future potential. Take a stab at my website and get to know the area..
Multi-Family buildings in the $400k to $1 million range are getting 9% Cap Rates and the area commands rental units like you command oxygen.
I am still looking at my long Island homes. Just can't see the deals up north. The South is so cheap compared to the North.Not sure about Commercial as I am just getting my feet wet their. Would like to discuss this with you on our trip down to Florida.
Talk soon
AlexGreaterKCHomes wrote:I have not tried those specifically. Looking for an accurate convention schedule for 12… Thanks for the tip! JohnJohn lets keep in touch a bout this .I am also on a world tour this coming year.Right now we have trips planned to Hong Kong , Singapore, Australia. Trying to reach out and find some real estate groups in Dubai, and the UK.
Talk soon
Merry Christmas and happy New year…
Alex
lawsjs wrote:I have been asked by a third party who is trying to get something done about the nastier elements operating on the fringes of the law in the AU/US real estate business. Very few people have the courage to come forward and say 'I've been ripped off' but if one or two come forward there is a very good chance something may be able to be done, possibly even getting money back eventually and possibly getting some legal results. I do not need to know any of these stories myself, but I have been asked to pass on the information. I am convinced there are hundreds of very bad tales out there, but mostly it is 'my friend' or 'someone I know'. To do anything there needs to be facts and figures and faces involved. Please PM me, I might be able to provide direct access to people who might help in the US, but only if you wish it. Primarily this is about getting real life stories to someone in Australia very keen on assisting on a large scale.this would be a good read, and interest to not only Australians but us Americans as well..
Sincerely
Alex Franksworldinvestor wrote:Alex SC wrote:worldinvestor wrote:Hi All
another great property I purchased, renovated in 4 weeks.http://s1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/selectamericanhomes/Course%20Side/?albumview=slideshow
This is a nice home and many can be had just like .Typical A property in Atlanta ..
Nice Job
Again this business is not rocket science as some try to make it….
Alex
Ps so it is okay for us to put some finished products up here to show before and after picks of deals.?
Yes, this was an absolute steal at $34,000 purchase price.
Can you show us the true and final numbers , Rehab , closing cost , fees paid to reseller, holding cost , all cost associated with the deal. So this way the folks on here can see everything involved. We know the Atlanta market can provide homes like these all day long.
Again Congrads awesome deal
And every one on the site Merry Christmas and Happy holidays to all
Alex
worldinvestor wrote:Hi All
another great property I purchased, renovated in 4 weeks.http://s1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/selectamericanhomes/Course%20Side/?albumview=slideshow
This is a nice home and many can be had just like .Typical A property in Atlanta ..
Nice Job
Again this business is not rocket science as some try to make it….
Alex
Ps so it is okay for us to put some finished products up here to show before and after picks of deals.?
worldinvestor wrote:Alex SC wrote:worldinvestor wrote:I would be keen on specifics on why you are investing in specific areas the pros and cons.I mentioned in previous post that I am investing in Atlanta. I do believe however that prices may still fall back. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks WI
I only deal in Atlanta and Charlotte NC
My thoughts are the rents will need to come down in Atlanta. As the flood of foreclosures hit the market.Prices are still going down.
I say this because what we bid on 6 months ago to now.I offer less and start my offers way lower.Most of my old offers were in the $30k now in the $20k range.With that being said the later months in the USA banks are always more negotiable.Which could be the reason for the lower numbers.
Now in Charlotte there are not as many foreclosures.Well let me change that there are alot of the homes.Just not the prices I am willing to buy at. Rental market still holding strong but turning down more renters then normal. I try to take the time of year into consideration when buying and renting homes. Nov and Dec always bad months for rental income in the USA .With the holidays 2 in row ( thanksgiving and Christmas) At the same time the first of the year great time for rentals.With the most blue collar workers in the USA doing rapid tax refund.This is one time the average person will have lump sum of money. To pay deposit and first months rent. I have had alot of tenants pay me for 3 to 6 months .During this first month of the new year .
Alex
Hi Alex
why will rents go down, what happens to those who lost their homes, don't they rent?Yes but reality if they lost their homes could not afford it. How will afford higher payments with rents.
I think there will be a flood of homes on the market after the first of the year. Again all this is speculation .
Alex
CheevesFinancial wrote:Kylermrice: If you bought a home in Cape Coral in 2008 for 35k, it either had defective drywall issues or was in the boonies. Cheaper is not always better. A good home in Cape Coral could have been had for about $60k to $80k. Today is about 10% higher.X Cheeves
I do like Florida but never took the time to find a solid team there.So I invest for my family and close friends. I will continue to look in Florida only certain areas. Being born in NY and living in the South now.I know what Florida has to offer any body from NY ..(the real north) LOL Not NJ you would be only to get that joke. Second homes ( vacation ) or retirement homes for us in NY the true yankees.
The entry level priced 3 years ago there was $55k to 65k .I am not having much luck bidding that low any more.Short Sales still selling high $60s .So I am hoping for another drop in Florida prices. Then again I only look in North Port , Port Charlotte, Sarasota county.Again I only buyer nicer homes 12 years or newer. Not looking for huge cash flow their just hoping for appreciation 10 _ 15 years from now. I am a realist in my thought process.
Now this is a theory that hear more from the west coast real estate investor , and cash lenders. That Florida and Phoenix prices will drop again. I am not saying they are right. I am just hoping they are correct. My own real estate portfolio should include more a few homes from the North Port and Sarasota areas.( I pick there because beaches are beautiful , and my brother lives there) Visit quiet often….
Keep that crown on hand..will make my trip down that way.When it gets really cold here and still warm their.Hope all is well and have a Merry Christmas and happy New Year
talk soon
Alex
jayhinrichs wrote:Alex SC wrote:Hey Guys just FYI not selling here but we do order C L 100 ( termite letter )per property and inspections reports. This is a no brainer. Make sure who ever, or where ever you buy this is included.If someone is not willing to provide either one of these..that should raise a big question mark.Again this is not rocket science but there are steps to use to protect your self and the investment property you are going to by.Appraisal not to crazy about them as they are speculative value
Alex
All the older homes pre 1970 here in the south.Seem to be finding the sewer problems more now then last few years.( not sure why )
Termites man those bugs can eat a whole house. Purchased a house years ago when we could flip. The only thing left was the bricks.House was jacked up five ton jacks. Replace the seal to flooring to all walls. All from termites.
Never hurts to get it looked at, just to be sure
Alex
Alex,
We do pest and dry rot here in Oregon, but the major problem is Sewer laterals, here in Oregon. Dry rot to a certain extent.
Not much if any termites
When I reno one of our older properties I just replace the Sewer lateral as a matter of course just like painting the house. Sewer plug ups are one of the number one problems and when you got a tenant in there they are major issues as the sewer lateral replacement companies know they got you over a sewer barrel.
We used to get a few termites in CA. I can remember houses getting tented and gas blown into them
quickchick wrote:Sure, Jay.
We'd like to hear your thoughts!
The only thing I can think of, if stuck with a property that is not delivering, and does not seem to have any solutions, is to sell.
If anyone wants to buy it!Yes and no some banks selling properties super low because they are stuck. Some investors make big mistakes buying to many( if they paid cash they are willing to dumb good buys can be made ) . About 3 years ago when hard money companies started dropping here in the USA. I went to them and tried to buy all the inventory they had in my markets. Knowing they needed to sell ,and most were cash lenders not real estate guys.Two different worlds lending capital or being on the ground and understanding the real estate product .
So always worth seeing the properties and why they are being liquidated.My team has been in negotiating with Lawyers ,banks for 2 years on a 67 house package of homes in my area. My accepted offer 2 years ago was $1.1million. Now today we have conference call my new offer is $600k. Since the value has dropped and the area has gotten worse. So I know there is a dollar there to be made. Rehab should be with all $350k ( high but safe number)
Just always find out why and then see the properties for your self.
Never want to step over a a dollar to pick up a nickel…
Alex
jbelmore wrote:Derek That's very sobering. Chilling really. Americans have shown resourcefulness in crisis before so hopefully they'll turn it around before becoming "a banana republic". Some tough decisions are required. DavidBeing from the USA and I do love the states. You are correct though it time for some serious changes here.I believe alot of the real estate problems came down to greed and pure thievery . Not to say our Government has lost touch with the average person.
We always been a strong resilient nation.I just hope our Government opens there eyes a little bit…
Well not trying to get to political here.
Alex
Derek wrote:Another link on some apparent anomalies in US economy.http://www.businessinsider.com/economic-numbers-important-2011-2011-12
Yes I read it on yahoo.com but funny thing bet they would never print 50 best things about Economy..Not saying there would be 50 of them.
Alex
jayhinrichs wrote:Probably the banks selling their own inventory would be my guess.and a smart move for the banks in my mind the Aussie investor with 20% or more down is a better credit risk than a nothing down US owner occ. Dual sources of repayment… One rent two investor.
Jay we been talking with Danny and his group.Looking at less fee's and some type of 3 to 5 year loan. Since the investor is putting 50% down.Just finding the back end lending is the tricky part .I now see why you said it would take a larger fund. Then what I had in mind.The group I discussed with you was talking $2m .Which would do nothing and be gone in one month.
Hoping to have an answers in next few days from them
Talk soon
Alex
PS you should have an email from me Yes bid $12k on that property I sent you..