All Topics / Help Needed! / Sell or hold?

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  • Profile photo of B2 luckB2 luck
    Participant
    @b2-luck
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 10

    Hi,

    We bought a new house as an investment property in emerald Qld, in 2011. The property price has dropped approx 100k . We have it rented out for 300 per week. By the end of 2017 we will be paying the principle on the mortgage also, which is when we might feel a financial squeeze.
    The property is in a good area, close to schools, shops etc. house rents easily.
    I realise that we’ve made a rookie mistake in buying durning the boom..
    I would really appreciate others feed back ? Has anyone else found themselves in a similar situation? Anyone got any insight into how emerald will move from here? Do we sell or hold??

    Thanks

    Reply

    Profile photo of BennyBenny
    Moderator
    @benny
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 1,416

    Hi B2luck,
    Your post today indirectly led me to have a read about those regional areas that have mining as one of their local businesses. I must say it was interesting to read the comments by many who seemed to have in-depth knowledge of those areas in regional Queensland. Your post that led me to the mining thread was this one :-
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4404256-qld-mining-regions-bowen-surat-basins-gladstone-willing-to-help-anyone-with-questions/page/8/#post-4652133

    Now today, you say this:-

    We bought a new house as an investment property in emerald Qld, in 2011. The property price has dropped approx 100k . We have it rented out for 300 per week. By the end of 2017 we will be paying the principle on the mortgage also, which is when we might feel a financial squeeze.

    Going by comments in that thread from “Josh”, he believes that Emerald is far more than just another mining town, and that he believes it to be a major service centre for many surrounding mines and mining towns. He also believes that the long term for Emerald will be solid when considering it as a 10 year investment and not a short-term one.

    From my end, I can add nothing re Emerald itself – but re your “Do I sell, or do I not?” question, my thoughts would be to consider a few points:-
    1. Can you afford to sell today, and thus “lock in” a Capital Loss – assuming that there is a loss of $100k if you were to sell, and don’t forget to add in the costs of sale.
    2. If you were to sell, do you have another plan for the extra $$ that are currently supporting a negative-geared investment?
    3. Do you agree (with Josh) that Emerald will be profit-making when considering a longer-term investment – e.g. ten years?
    4. Can you afford to hold it if you agree with 3. ?

    Going on from 4, if you wanted to hold, then can you cut costs and/or lift income?
    Do you envisage being able to raise rents up from $300 in any way? e.g. can you renovate to command a higher price? Or, if currently unfurnished, can you pull a better rent by making it furnished? Is there a better (lower) vacancy rate for furnished properties? Is there a possibility of adding a granny flat in that area? If so, can you add one cheaply (e.g. move a second-hand mobile home onto the site for $50k and rent it for an extra $200 a week – a 20% return!!).

    On the “small fish are sweet” side of things – can you add split-cycle air-conditioning and add $20/week to the rent? Or add a carport and put $10 a week onto the rent? In short, what does your tenant want/need that they will pay a bit more to get? Make sure that the rent increase more than covers either the cash cost in one year, or borrow extra to cover the cost of the upgrade and pay just 5% interest, leaving the extra cash-in-hand to help you hold on.

    Or can you cut costs by renegotiating the mortgage term or changing lenders? Go from a Standard rate loan to a Basic Rate? Can you look to continuing with an IO loan after the loan goes off IO and onto P&I? Again, though I know this CAN be done in my area, I don’t know how lenders view Emerald, so you would need the expertise of a finance person (MB?) who is familiar with Emerald. Of course, any change to a mortgage will likely include a cost (application fee etc) so do be sure that the gain is worth the cost.

    Other than that, I hope others with more local knowledge of Emerald can help further,

    Benny

    Profile photo of B2 luckB2 luck
    Participant
    @b2-luck
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 10

    Hi Benny.

    Thanks heaps for your helpful insight.

    The house was a new build so it has aircons in all rooms. It does need a garden shed , which is something we have wanted to do. I’ll do some sums and see if it’s viable.

    We would prefer not sell, nothing nice about waving good bye to that amount of money.

    I wasn’t aware that that was even an option ( extending OI!). Well, if we can extend our OI loan for another 5 years, then yeah, we would definitely like to keep it.

    There are a few projects in the pipeline for the emerald region over the coming years. Hopefully they all get the government go ahead. If they do, then keeping the house should prove to be the wise choice.

    Some of the points that you have suggested are some that I wouldn’t have thought of, You definitely have given me a few ideas to look into. I’ll be chatting to our MB over the coming weeks and hopefully now I’ll be a bit more informed!

    You’ve given me ALOT to look into Benny. I really appreciate all you’ve suggested.

    Thank you

    Profile photo of BennyBenny
    Moderator
    @benny
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 1,416

    Hi B2,

    I was glad I was able to provide a few thoughts that might work for you.

    Now that I know this was a new built house, could it be that this place is in the right location to be desirable as a Corporate rental? I don’t know how many companies move staff into Emerald, but corporate rentals usually want :-
    1. Properties in a central location, or near their place of business.
    2. Properties need to be well appointed furniture-wise
    3. Properties need to be top quality in all aspects

    Consider a mine or a company sending a trouble-shooter to Emerald for 6 months to sort out a problem. Or, they might provide accommodation for whomever of their managers goes up there next – one moves out, another moves in. In an ideal situation, the company might take out a lease at a VERY GOOD rental for years at a time.

    When moving in these circles though, there can be quite a bit of competition between the landlords, so you would need to know you have a deal before setting it up and spending heaps to “make ready” for whomever it is that wants your place, and perhaps they might even dictate just what fittings they want you to provide.

    Why not, if they are locked in on a long-term lease? Give ’em what they want, and you put your price on the rental to cover their requirements, plus ……

    Good luck,
    Benny

    Just one more to have a think about.

    Profile photo of Colin RiceColin Rice
    Participant
    @fms
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 338

    I wasn’t aware that that was even an option ( extending OI!). Well, if we can extend our OI loan for another 5 years, then yeah, we would definitely like to keep it.

    Easily done via refinance to anther banks assuming serviceability is OK which isn’t difficult to verify in most cases.

    In regards to Benny’s comment about an MB being familiar with Emerald a call to the bank you are considering (made by MB) to check any postcode restrictions would satisfy that concern.

    Also another point to consider is that you will have a valuation shortfall compared to initial purchase price so may need to access some equity from PPOR to make up the shortfall, thats if it isn’t already cross collaterlised which can be sorted out at the same time as the refinance.

    May also pay to run a few different valuation types with a few lenders such as desktops that often come in higher than full vals or kerbsides.

    Did you buy this property via a Property Marketing Company disguised as an “educator” or something similar?

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Profile photo of Colin Rice Colin Rice.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Profile photo of Colin Rice Colin Rice.

    Colin Rice | CDR Finance
    http://cdrfinance.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Perth Based Mortgage Broker - Investment Property Finance Specialist | E: [email protected]

    Profile photo of B2 luckB2 luck
    Participant
    @b2-luck
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 10

    Hi Benny,

    Great ideas again, though I believe that with the current market in the town, other areas probably will be better suited for capturing that market. We’ll continue to attract working families. Which we will try to make more appealing by adding a decent size shed.

    After having a chat with my hubby, we’ve decided to start paying the principle straight away, instead of waiting until the end of 2017 – when it was meant to kick in. We both earn a pretty decent wage so we’ll try and pay a bit extra of our P&I.

    It’s not all doom and gloom though, we’ve learnt a lot from this.
    We’re pretty optimistic that the tide will change :)

    Thanks again Benny.

    Profile photo of B2 luckB2 luck
    Participant
    @b2-luck
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 10

    Hi Colin,

    I’ll be contacting our MB in regards to changing from IO to P & I.

    I didn’t realise that over the life time of the loan, you end up paying more interest, if part of the loan is IO.
    Ideal if the value of the property goes up.. Hasn’t worked in our favour though.

    No, We didn’t buy through a company. A reputable builder in the town was building a couple of houses in a particular area that we liked. We bought ours before it was completed, the other house sold for 30k more when completed. At the time we thought we got a great deal, saving 30k!

    One of the down sides to all this is it’s slowed down our potential to buy again.

    Thanks Colin for your input.

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