All Topics / Help Needed! / My First Development Project – Advice Needed!!

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  • Profile photo of kris07kris07
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    @kris07
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 101

    Hi All,

    As the heading suggests, I am working on my first development project. I am looking to build 2 modern townhouses on the back of an existing dwelling.

    I have engaged an architect who will also be project managing the project to completion.

    We are currently in the process of completing the design. We've worked out the floor & the architect has subsequently  submitted 'perspectives' of how the building will actually look like which is was exciting.

    Following my recent feedback (on the first cut of the 'perspective illustrations') my architect has asked me to engage a quantity surveyor (or he can provide similar services which won't be as accurate) in order to drill down on the costs and I guess to manage expectations.

    I can see merit to what he's saying, however I wanted to get your views. What do you do? Is it worth the expense? How much should I expect to pay for completing this from a QS? 

    To date we've been working on his estimate of $1700 per meters squared, which excludes driveways, landscaping etc. Seems a little high..

    Your comments would be much appreciated and happy to elaborate where required

    Profile photo of alfrescodiningalfrescodining
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    @alfrescodining
    Join Date: 2012
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    Is it 2 storey?

    What state are you in?

    You might not need a QS report, HOWEVER some Councils do require a QS report to be submitted with the development application.

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
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    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,271

    Lot of questions but the first one is – has the Architect given you a fixed cost for the DA? To be honest I don't think an Architect is the best person to manage the DA process. Also do you have a list of costs that you have factored already? Members of the forum can plug in items which you may have missed.

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
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    mattnz
    Participant
    @mattnz
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 574

    Please advise not just the state but city / town you are building in as build costs can vary significantly between locations. The suburb will also assist with understanding the market and resale values. 

    I love the type of build you are doing, that is the same as i did for my first development. Being able to retain the existing dwelling really assists with the profitability. 

    Personally I have used my architect to submit for the da on each of my development projects and I don't see any issue with this, as long as you are within council zoning requirements and your architect has done work in that council before.

    I don't know how an architect could determine what was appropriate to build without a good understanding of the zoning requirements.

    Is your block flat or on a slope? What is the natural fall of the stormwater? Does the block slope towards the road or away from it? Are there easements? These are the types of civil works considerations that can quickly blow out your cost estimates and profitability.

    Also allow for council contributions, in qld these can be as high as $26k per additional unit, plus da fees, engineering, da costs, ba costs, connections (water, power, gas).

    What level of finish and materials will you be using? Aircons and fans in every room? Stone benchtops? What level of appliances? Who is your target market as this will guide some of these considerations.

    One common mistake I have seen first time developers make is having too large and inefficient a floor plan, with wasted space. Unless you are in a high end market where you will receive a premium for a large build, try to keep it to the minimum build size with each bedroom still a double at a minimum (3×3 plus wardrobe) with a larger master.

    If $1700 per sqm is correct for your area, an extra 20sqm per unit will cost an extra $68k that you may not get back in the sale price. There is normally a ceiling price that you won't get over for a 3/2 no matter how large it is. Areas to focus on to reduce size are hallways, laundries and balconies.

    A qs wouldn't normally be required for a project of this size. Is the architect going to contract a builder or will they get multiple quotes for each trade component throughout the job to try to keep costs under control? I would normally expect a local builder to have a better idea of costs than an architect would. Maybe request some quotes / estimates from builders as well as this is what they do all the time and are likely to have both contacts and scale that your architect won't. You may find massive variations in quotes between them. On my first 2 townhouse build i had quotes between $500k amd $780k for the same specification. If you suspect that the architect's build costs are high for your location this would definitely be a worthwhile exercise.

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
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    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
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    Ahh yes floor plan – so important yet developers/architects stuff it up so many times.

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
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    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
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    @thefinanceshop
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    BTW Matt – tell us more about the website keen to know what its about. I am actively developing sites so keen to share and hear feedback from other developers particularly from other regions/councils.

    Regards

    Shahin

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
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    mattnz
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    @mattnz
    Join Date: 2007
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    Hi Shahin,

    My website will provide a number of free introductory lessons in property development, and if people like what they are receiving, they can subscribe for a full course, with a number of tools and templates.

    I am looking to provide enough information to people to determine if developing is likely to be the right wealth creation vehicle for them personally, based on their circumstances and aptitude for it and everything they need to succeed. I will be seeking input from a range of professional experts.

    Typical courses are $4-6k for a 3 day event. I am looking to provide an online version, with ongoing tools and network, for a reasonable monthly subscription.

    If any professionals with experience in development are interested in being involved, let me know and I can provide greater detail.

    Cheers

    Matt

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
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    @thefinanceshop
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    Hi Matt,

    This is a great idea – I look forward to the site going live in the new year.

    Regards

    Shahin

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
    http://www.elitepropertyfinance.com
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Residential and Commercial Brokerage

    Profile photo of JhaiMitchellJhaiMitchell
    Member
    @jhaimitchell
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 30

    mattnz is right a local builder to have a better idea.

    Also ask what you real estate agent of what they think of the inclusions, they will let you know what will give you ROI in the area (renting or selling) and if you shop around you can add perceived value at very little cost.

    Profile photo of OsmanDesignpacOsmanDesignpac
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    @osmandesignpac
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 7

    The best person we have found to deal with Town Planning approvals is a professional Town Planner, and one that works in well with a building designer or an architect. Using a QS may be a bit of an overkill for a project for the project size you have described. May I suggest that you obtain an estimate at the various design stages (Concept Design and Design Development) from a builder.  We have found using this method of budget reviews keeps our clients in control of the funding of the project. If the budget is looking like its blowing out, this can be caught at the earlier stags of the design process, and design modifications may be required.  Hope this help, Jeff Osman of Osman Designpac Building Designers W: http://www.osmandesign.com.au   E: [email protected]

    Profile photo of OsmanDesignpacOsmanDesignpac
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    @osmandesignpac
    Join Date: 2013
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    Hi Shahin

    Please provide details of your workshops as our range of services range of services from Survey, Town Planning, Building Design, all facets of Engineering (Structural, Civil, Hydraulic, Mechanical and Electrical Engineering) and Fly around Animations for Multi-Residential, Commercial, Industrial and Aged Care projects in SE Qld.  may assist your clients.    W: osmandesign.com.au     E: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Paul B.Paul B.
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    @paul-b.
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 70

    In NSW, generally a QS Certificate is required by Council to verify the development approval pathway. For example, if a project is going to have a capital cost in excess of $30 million, the the project is recognised as a regional development and is to be assessed by the State's Planning Assessment Commission, not Council. I can't see why a residential development of your scale would be required to have a QS Certificate.

    I have no problem with an architect project managing a development such as yours. It seems to be a pretty standard residential application that any experienced architect should be able to manage. At my work we have in-house architects that regularly run with the DA process of their projects without referring them to us (planning department).

    A word of caution: architects tend to overlook the legislative requirements of policy that might not be applicable to most projects, but are still fairly common none-the-less. That is where planners are worth their weight in gold, they will forsee any road blocks before you submit to Council.

    If your project is within NSW, I would be happy to have a quick look at the legislative requirements applicable to your site and offer any advice.

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