Hi All,
I'm wanting to get into the renovation game and I was wondering if there's anyone outhere that could offer some advice to point me in the right direction and on where to start on getting information to educate oneself. Are there seminars courses out there or even books (any recommendations). Is it worth doing a project management course?
Please advise. Thank you kindly
Where are you located?
Cherie Barbers course is great. Not cheap though.
Do you have any skills or just looking to manage the reno and not do any of the work yourself?
Are you looking for buy/reno/hold or buy /reno and sell for profit?
As an intro to the building side of things, do an owner builders course (mandatory if you have to do 'building work' as defined) but useful to understand the overall process of trades co-ordination, budgeting, tendering, supervision, site safety, ohsr, legalities, security of payments legislation. design, use of consultants……..
Thanks for your response Catalyst.
I'm from Melbourne. Yes I've heard of the Cherie Barber's workshop being around the $4-5K. I've also just come across the Reno Kings one which is about a quarter of the price but not sure if it's worth it. Any thoughts?
In regards to your question regarding my skills, unfortunately I can only hold a paintbrush and will only be good at ripping things out. In other words I'm looking at managing the renos.
In terms of strategy to begin with I'm looking at buy, renovate & sell to start with and when I build some reserve cash I will look into holding. I like the idea of holding, but being a novice in this, I don't know what are the technicalities of the financials
(acquiring loans for property & renovation at the same time, servicing the loans while conducting the renovations & other relating expenses). Learning more in the ins & outs will probably affect/influence my strategy. Will appreciate your thoughts
Cheers Yann
Thanks, i will look into. This will definitely be helpful even if I just want to mange.
cheers Yann
How much profit are you looking to make from doing a renovation project?
How much equity/cash do you have available to use?
How large is your income/serviceability?
How much time do you have?
As for reading "massive profits in real estate by adding value & renovations" would be a good $30 buy over a 5k real estate course.
Some people love the Reno Kings. Me- A can't stand people who are loud and yell all the time. I went to a 2 hour workshop and that was enough for me.
Can i ask- Why reno's if you are not particularly handy?
There are lots of ways to make money in real estate- just curious.
Scott- where is it "mandatory" to do an owner builders course?
Hi Yannjgs,
Someone proposed a similar question in another recent thread which you can read here
The 'other thread' made some really useful comments that you may find helpful.
Having said that I do agree with Catalyst – why renovations? Sounds like your capacity in this area is somewhat limited at this stage and if you are thinking 'project management' type matters it sounds like your renovations are going to be big.
Now I am not a renovator investor but I would imagine that the bigger the renovation then the greater the scope for price over runs, over-capitalisation and so on.
Thanks Derek. I started having a look at the above thread, there some interesting reads.
There are a few reasons to your question & Catalyst's to why renovations.
1. First of all, I guess as part of my day job I'm part of an industry that is about creating/improving things to have a greater visual impact, therefor the thought of turning something old into something newer attracts me & gives me a sense of satisfaction. To your point I'm aware that I need to be really careful not to go overboard with budgets and unecessary renos that won't affect the price.
2. I have an IP already which we're just holding at the moment and I would like to be more active in my investment strategy where I can be more involved & hands on.
3. Researching areas, driving to suburbs to get a feel, sourcing materials, working indoors/outdoors etc.., I can see that these will be things that will keep me motivated.
4. This end of year & starting next year I've decided that I will try things rather than sit & ponder what could have been or could be. I believe I have the drive & motivation to do it & keep me going. This is why I posted this thread to see where I can get information to further my education and get started and hear people's stories & experiences.
Cheers Yann
Hi Catalyst,
There are a few reasons to your question as to why renovations.
1. First of all, I guess as part of my day job I'm part of an industry that is about creating/improving things to have a greater visual impact, therefor the thought of turning something old into something newer attracts me & gives me a sense of satisfaction. To your point I'm aware that I need to be really careful not to go overboard with budgets and unecessary renos that won't affect the price.
2. I have an IP already which we're just holding at the moment and I would like to be more active in my investment strategy where I can be more involved & hands on.
3. Researching areas, driving to suburbs to get a feel, sourcing materials, working indoors/outdoors etc.., I can see that these will be things that will keep me motivated.
4. This end of year & starting next year I've decided that I will try things rather than sit & ponder what could have been or could be. I believe I have the drive & motivation to do it & keep me going. This is why I posted this thread to see where I can get information to further my education and get started and hear people's stories & experiences.
If you don't mind me asking what drove you into renovations & how did you get started?
Cheers Yann
Thanks for your reply Gemma,
To start with I will be looking at 20-30K profits which I believe aren't unreasonable pending finding the right location & property.
At the moment I don't think I can do much as we just had our 2nd child and we're on one wage. However I do want to egt a head start & invest in educating myself, so that when my wife goes back to work I hope I will be up & running.
Time wyse I work full time which I believe might not be ideal. but I read stories from API mag where people manage to do both.
I want to start small first to get a feel for it and can always freelance or get a part time job in what I do as a living,
when & if I see potential.
Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated.
I was interested in property but my husband was not interested (he just signed where I asked him to). LOL
We did a minor reno on one unit, then on a house.
THEN we found a place that needed a full reno. He got very interested and worked out the costs, started looking on Ebay for stuff etc. After that one he was keen and started looking for the next project. I'm hands on as well and we love it.
As you said it's very rewarding seeing a property that no one would live in then turn it into a lovely home.
Our last 4 properties have been full reno houses. As I said- we love doing it and the great increase in equity is fantastic as is the great yield. It's worked for us and we have made great gains with this strategy in the last 3 years. Our portfolio is CF+ and we have a good equity base.
Thanks for this info.
Were you guys always handy people or did you pick up skills along the way or are you self taught. If so, can you let me know where you picked up your skills.
My hubby has always been handy with most stuff. He made me do stuff so I learnt from him and youtube is great too. He wouldn't do cornice so I looked it up. Then we had an argument about how to cut it. He cut it and it was wrong so now that's my job. LOL
We learnt something new with each reno. Different things go wrong with each one so you pick up tips. Especially what NOT to do. I wish we knew someone doing renos before to give us hints then. But we did OK. Funny I thought everyone would love to see a reno so when we did a big one last year I posted asking if anyone wanted to have a look while we were doing the reno to just message me. Didn't get anyone interested.
Then I noticed Nathan charging $299 to see his reno and got loads of takers. He's done it a few times now. Limit 20 people. Not a bad way to make a quick $6K.
Catalyst wrote:Funny I thought everyone would love to see a reno so when we did a big one last year I posted asking if anyone wanted to have a look while we were doing the reno to just message me. Didn't get anyone interested.Then I noticed Nathan charging $299 to see his reno and got loads of takers. He's done it a few times now. Limit 20 people. Not a bad way to make a quick $6K.
Therein lies your problem. For some reason people seem to think free stuff is worthless whereas if they have to pay there is a perception the content is better.
profit – I would be going for the cheapest properties you can find within your area that you think would have a good margin in them. Don't buy a median value or higher end project if this is your first renovation. Learn your basics on a low value house. Because if you do make errors and overvalue your end sale price or overcapitalize your budget or take too long on the renovation. Your risk should be lower and the pain if you make too many mistakes hopefully won't break the bank (equity/ savings etc). Sometimes going for a unit/townhouse might be preferable to a house. Lower entry cost and also minimal money to be spent externally, whilst internally it could be disgusting and generally unpleasant.
In one of your other posts you spoke about were to pick up skills for renovating. You will accumulate more knowledge the the more projects you do. Your first renovation might be just a extremely unattractive cosmetic renovation. Unfortunately there's not many courses out there that will teach you how to install a toilet or a kitchen with sink and work top ect. Learn from tradies. Perhaps you would hire a tiler the first time. You might say hey "if I pay you a extra 200 dollars will you show me what your doing and why" and then you can just assist them and sponge off their knowledge.
In reality I wouldn't say most trades are that difficult to learn. Don't be afraid to try something you don't know. One of the other comments mentioned YouTube. YouTube will pretty much be able to teach you How to tile paint, install toilets, showers, paint, basic carpentry, giprocking (drywall), flooring, carpet laying. Or if you want a more hands on approach I'm pretty sure your local bunnings/masters run info sessions on all these things.
Time – you mention time might be short for yourself. Make it easier for yourself, don't buy a renovation more then 30 minutes away from where you live. As if you have to do the work after work or on weekends you'll find yourself very short on patience driving more then 30 minutes to your project. Perhaps try and tee up your annual leave with settlement date, so you have a solid 4 weeks to get the Majority of the work completed. Also I would comment on time and say. It's 100 percent possible to work fulltime and also work fulltime hours on a renovation just depends how committed you are. With 2 Children that would be a bit harder. I would aim for building up your annual leave.
Also your time during the renovation will be valuable. So maybe whilst your getting educated. Write out a little spread sheet of possible jobs that could come up in a renovation.. Ie painting, changing shower screen, changing light fittings, installing blinds, laying carpet. Ring up the individual trades that would do the particular job. Ie say painting. Ask them how much it would cost per sqm, per linear m, per light globe, per PowerPoint, per blind to get installed etc. Then go to bunnings/masters etc etc and look at costs for materials. You will soon figure out that some jobs have very high labour costs for what might be a relatively low skill level to learn as a beginning. A basic example would be. Paint for a unit might cost 500 in materials. Whilst hiring a painter might cost 2,000-3000 dollars for the same job. Let's assume it takes you 40 hours (way to long) to paint a whole unit. Your going to save/make 1500-2500 dollars be doing this yourself. 2500 might be a acceptable return for those 40 hours of work. It's a low skill level, low tool level ( ie you don't need to buy many tools to complete the job). In reality I would say hire a paint sprayer and you should be able to paint the whole unit/house with 2-3 costs in less then a day. Where as you might discover that for you to learn plumbing, buy appropriate tools, and waste your time figuring out why you can't get your metric pipe fitting to attach to a old imperial pipe fitting. It might be quicker and easier but more expensive then just materials to hire a plumber to come around and attach all your new vanity, taps and waste water. Might be more expensive on the wallet but less taxing on the mind trying to nut out the problems.
Use your time that you have now to investigate areas and get to know sales prices and sales history.
Save your money for renovation/holding costs/ stamp duty/ deposit (if your not going to borrow it)
Watch and learn some basic trade skills.
Once again, thank you! I'm trying to convince my wife to get into it as well but unfortunately she's not interested My brother in law is a tradie, I'm thinking of going onsite with him when I have spare time to pick up some tips & new skills. I'll start getting on you tube and even Bunnings. However though to what extent do you rely on your skills to fix things, do you have tradies involved at all in jobs for e.g plumbing, tiling, new bathroom or new kitchen? As I read that sometimes it's better to let these type of jobs to the pros.
Not a bad way for Nathan to make some extra cash. Funny to see that no one took your offer. I would have definitely been interested but unfortunately you're based in Sydney. May be if I'm in sydney one day and you guys are renovating, I might pop in (if it's ok).
You can certainly be a full developer and run a business / be employed trust me i do it.
I have written a feature in next months API magazine about a strata title development I completed earlier in the year.
Cheers
Yours in Finance
Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender
You can certainly be a full developer and run a business / be employed trust me i do it.
I have written a feature in next months API magazine about a strata title development I completed earlier in the year.
Cheers
Yours in Finance
Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender
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