All Topics / Help Needed! / How can I buy these 12% return $400k+ equity

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Profile photo of abcd1abcd1
    Participant
    @abcd1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 36

    http://www.realestate.com.au/property-unitblock-nsw-moree-106683532

    asked the agent what LVR and he recommended 80% however they are 18 2 bedroom units.

    last I heard the banks were lending on max 4 units on an 80% lvr

    as I have enough equity if this is the case and the return is not bad all.

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
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    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    Here are my thoughts:

    If I found a deal I thought was unmissable, I don't think I would post the link on open forum in case anyone pinched it (wink).

    Firstly, I would double check with the agent that is currently managing the leases what the actual rental returns are (and would request to see this in writing through my solicitor), and also compare it to the asking price of rents on similar properties in the area.

    I would also speak to Moree council about whether in fact this site can be strata titled, and if so, whether there is anything obvious they see that you would have to do.  Some examples might be "we would demand you create a large concreted area for visitor parking" or "we would demand you upgrade the sewer pipe both on the property and on the crown land in front of the property"…… etc.  I would also speak to a Surveyor that works the Moree area to understand the likely costs of the strata titling. 

    I would then look at the historical figures of how long properties take to sell in Moree.  Such figures are in the rear pages of the Australian Property Investor Magazine.  If your strategy is subdivide and offload, you need to have a solid understanding of how long the strata titling will take, how long each unit will take to sell, how much these processes cost, how much the holding costs (eg bank interest, insurance) will be while you wait for all this to happen, and the relevant capital gains taxes (it would probably be unwise to sell all of them in the one financial year).

    An agent will of course tell you this is an amazing deal and you can make $x.  But assume he is telling you nonsense and check these figures yourself.

    Anyway.  It does beg the question; if there is such a large amount of cash up for grabs, why is the current owner not doing it him/herself?  Or indeed, why hasn't the agent snaffled the deal for himself?

    As for who would finance it, don't know.  But 12 units on one title will be considered commercial finance.

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
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    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    By the way, also speak to the local water company to understand how they bill.  In Geelong they see fit to bill you for a service charge PER SEPARATELY TENANTED DWELLING.  The council does the same and hits you with a set of rates per dwelling.  That adds up and helps corrode your rental yield.  You will also want to get some quotes on insuring the thing (and for heavens sake if you offer to buy the place, ensure one of your "subject to" conditions are "subject to buyer being able to secure insurance that is satisfactory to the buyer".  You will be surprised to find that it is not as easy as one phonecall to find a company that will insure something like this.

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
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    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of xdrewxdrew
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    @xdrew
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 479

    You arent the first person to stumble across these delightful Moree properties. I was aware of them when they first tumbled onto the market several months ago.

    Do your homework on them. And then you'll realise that the risks vs returns scenario is a lot more risks than returns.

    The excuse used by the landlord is he evacuated the property for serious upgrading. Now as a landlord the only time I would be doing that is for a total renewal. Otherwise its to be done gradually because you remain reliant on the income.

    The property may be a gem. But from having contacted the agent on them .. be wary. All is not as it seems.

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    Wow sounds like in this case you might have dodged a bullet by posting on here.  xdrew may have saved you from buying a bad IP.

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of abcd1abcd1
    Participant
    @abcd1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 36
    JacM wrote:
    Here are my thoughts:

    If I found a deal I thought was unmissable, I don't think I would post the link on open forum in case anyone pinched it (wink).

    Firstly, I would double check with the agent that is currently managing the leases what the actual rental returns are (and would request to see this in writing through my solicitor), and also compare it to the asking price of rents on similar properties in the area.

    I would also speak to Moree council about whether in fact this site can be strata titled, and if so, whether there is anything obvious they see that you would have to do.  Some examples might be "we would demand you create a large concreted area for visitor parking" or "we would demand you upgrade the sewer pipe both on the property and on the crown land in front of the property"…… etc.  I would also speak to a Surveyor that works the Moree area to understand the likely costs of the strata titling. 

    I would then look at the historical figures of how long properties take to sell in Moree.  Such figures are in the rear pages of the Australian Property Investor Magazine.  If your strategy is subdivide and offload, you need to have a solid understanding of how long the strata titling will take, how long each unit will take to sell, how much these processes cost, how much the holding costs (eg bank interest, insurance) will be while you wait for all this to happen, and the relevant capital gains taxes (it would probably be unwise to sell all of them in the one financial year).

    An agent will of course tell you this is an amazing deal and you can make $x.  But assume he is telling you nonsense and check these figures yourself.

    Anyway.  It does beg the question; if there is such a large amount of cash up for grabs, why is the current owner not doing it him/herself?  Or indeed, why hasn't the agent snaffled the deal for himself?

    As for who would finance it, don't know.  But 12 units on one title will be considered commercial finance.

    Thanks for your reply I thought they would have to be commercial last time I looked into a motel not the same but similar the lend was 50%

    not 80% as touted by the agent this made me weary right away. and the rates usually at least 2% higher then resi lends which would make the whole deal fall over on commercial rates.

    I used the current 10.7% it’s actually returning now as the listing says will be relet easily for the quoted 12%

    this line raises alarm bells will be relet easily for more then why isn’t already instead of having 50% vacant not the sharpest knife in the draw but even I am not that gullible.

    I am looking to replace my dsp income so would be looking long term if what the agent said was true would be a good start but I don’t tend to believe agents unsure why that is lol

    As far as I was aware once over 4 units it has to be commercial happy to be corrected though.

    not to worried about posting the link I doubt I could lend on them without putting us into financial hardship anyway.

    It stuck out to me simply becuase it had built in equity enough income to replace our current income to move forward for other investment properties in the future.

    this wouldn’t be the case on a 9-10% comm lend though which is the rate we were told on a motel.

    Profile photo of abcd1abcd1
    Participant
    @abcd1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 36
    xdrew wrote:
    You arent the first person to stumble across these delightful Moree properties. I was aware of them when they first tumbled onto the market several months ago.

    Do your homework on them. And then you'll realise that the risks vs returns scenario is a lot more risks than returns.

    The excuse used by the landlord is he evacuated the property for serious upgrading. Now as a landlord the only time I would be doing that is for a total renewal. Otherwise its to be done gradually because you remain reliant on the income.

    The property may be a gem. But from having contacted the agent on them .. be wary. All is not as it seems.

    Thanks for the warning I didn’t think everything stacked up as it seems which is why I posted here I have no idea of Moree

    besides it being known as a town with a high crime rate.

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    If you get your numbers wrong on a property that you've forked out a million bucks for in a regional area, it has the potential to bite you on the backside big time.  Sounds like it's been on the market a while… there is probably a reason.  Do your homework and be super sure of everything, and be super sure of the impact to you if a couple of tenants suddenly stopped paying rent, or vacated and you couldn't re-tenant it straight away, or if interest rates went up a bit, or if the water company hiked the rates up… etc etc

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of Tracey BTracey B
    Participant
    @tracey-b
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 158

    I checked those Moree ones out a while ago too, actually on 15 February this year so they've definitely been listed for while.

    If you'd like to turn on private messages in your profile I'll send you a link to something else I'd consider in the current market.

    Profile photo of abcd1abcd1
    Participant
    @abcd1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 36
    Tracey B wrote:
    I checked those Moree ones out a while ago too, actually on 15 February this year so they've definitely been listed for while.

    If you'd like to turn on private messages in your profile I'll send you a link to something else I'd consider in the current market.

    Thanks my Private messages are on I am looking for 10%+ I had a look at the Tassie ones however 7% is to low in what I am trying to achieve

    which is not to be reliant on the guberment

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    You would be lucky to get 55% lvr on a block of 18 units in the middle of CBD capital city these days so out in regional NSW 80% is no chance.

    I own a block of 18 units here in Brisbane (4 x 2 + 14 x 1) and this day and age would probably only get 65% lvr.

    Thankfully i owe around $450K on them so not an issue.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
    Participant
    @shape
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 1,099

    Location and security type alone will push this loan type into the Commercial side of things.

    The rate for commercial will range from 7.8%- 10.5% +
    SO your NET return is much much lower because of this Commercial rate…

    Also the LVR would be def under 65%…more like 50% i would say for a 18×2 in Moore.

    Hence why it’s still on the market :)

    If you have the deposit may be worth looking into.

    Regards
    Michael

    abcd1 wrote:
    http://www.realestate.com.au/property-unitblock-nsw-moree-106683532

    asked the agent what LVR and he recommended 80% however they are 18 2 bedroom units.

    last I heard the banks were lending on max 4 units on an 80% lvr

    as I have enough equity if this is the case and the return is not bad all.

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Same Banks. Better Rates. Served With a Passion.

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
    Participant
    @shape
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 1,099

    Regarding what is considered commercial or not for block of units.

    Most bank will max out at 3 block of units under one title to be resi.
    A few will do it at 4.

    But there are 3 lenders i have dealt with in the past that will consider up to block of 8 on one title to be still resi ( but can’t be specialized properties)

    Regards
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Same Banks. Better Rates. Served With a Passion.

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