All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Costs associated with trusts

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  • Profile photo of YoungInvestorYoungInvestor
    Participant
    @younginvestor
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 377

    Hi all,

    I have just had a quick look back through the forums, but I'm a bit sleepy and can't seem to find a post on this.

    What are the costs associated with setting up a trust with a company trustee?

    In addition, what are the rough ongoing accounting costs associated with preparing Balance Sheet, P&L etc on an annual basis and completing tax returns for the trust?

    I have several properties in my own name and need this info to work out if trust structure is most effective way to move forward.

    Thanks in advance!

    YI

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    You need the trust deed which can cost from $185 up to around $1000.
    Company set up costs $412 at asic
    Each state may also require you to pay stamp duty on the trust. Was $200 in NSW, but recently went up to $550 I think. QLD was Nil in the past. Not sure about VIC.
    If you need some advice it will cost you a bit more on top of all this – and it a good thing to have cause if you set it up wrong you will be in trouble.

    On going costs are $212 annual ASIC fee and accounting. The company will need a tax return which should be a nl return and should cost much, and the trust will need a tax return – as well as your own personal ones. The accounting shouldn't really cost that much more than if you put the asset in your own name as there is not really much more involved.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of YoungInvestorYoungInvestor
    Participant
    @younginvestor
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 377

    Thanks Terry.

    How much does it cost to add beneficiaries to a trust later down the track.

    I am getting married this year and expect to have kids in the next 1-2 years so it would be good if I could add the kids as beneficiaries when they arrive.

    Also, is there any age limit on transferring income to kids?

    Thanks,
    YI

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    You cannot add beneficiaries later after the trust is formed or it will be a resettlement. That means the ATO considers a whole new trust is being formed and all the assets from the old trust are transfered to the new trust = stamp duty and CGT.

    But you do not have to add beneficiaries usually because most relatives will be included automatically. Deeds are worded so beneficiaries include "all children, future children, step children…….." etc (or the good ones are).

    Kids can earn up to $3000 pa in passive income and pay no tax. If they are actually working they can earn more – like adults I think.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of YoungInvestorYoungInvestor
    Participant
    @younginvestor
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 377

    Thanks mate – that works beautifully.

    So what is the point of a supplmental deed then? Is this only for amending clauses in the trust deed? For example, if the trust does not have all the require borrowing powers etc?

    Cheers,
    YI

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    not sure what a supplemental deed is, but the deeds can be modified, with great care, when need be. eg. the recent Bamford case regarding the definition of income made it wider. Deeds need updating ever few years as laws change. That is why it is probably best to just form a new trust every few years. Ideally have one proeprty per trust and when that property is sold don't reuse the trust but form a new one – works out cheaper if you live in QLD as no stamp duty on trust deeds there!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of aaabbbcccaaabbbccc
    Participant
    @aaabbbccc
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 71

    Terry,

    Can you still distribute $3000 to each child tax free? I was reading a 2009-2010 tax minimisation book last week which stated the maximum is now $772 (or there abouts…)

    Can someone please confirm this?

    Cheers,

    .

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Adam

    This is from last fin year
    http://ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/20046.htm&pc=001/002/046/002/018&mnu=&mfp=&st=&cy=1

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of aaabbbcccaaabbbccc
    Participant
    @aaabbbccc
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 71

    Hi Terry,

    Great to hear! As usual, thanks very much for the quick advice :)

    .

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    I should have added that people on low incomes can receive a tax rebate. Thats why the taxable income is lower but they can receive a higher amount and not pay tax – the rebate means that the government pays the first bit of tax for you.

    I don't know how it is worked out for kids, but for adults the first $6,000 in tax free, but if you were to earn up to $15,000 the tax would be $1350 but the government will allow a $1350 low income rebate so the net result is no tax payable.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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