All Topics / Help Needed! / Subdivision planning costs

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  • Profile photo of emmybemmyb
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    @emmyb
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 23

    Hi there,

    I am considering buying a 690m2 corner block in Frankston, Melbourne, with the goal of subdividing and building a new townhouse on part of the land.

    I am trying to figure out how much money would be needed in order to get the wheels in motion i.e. council plans and permits. Architect and surveyor fees etc…

    I would like to hire an architect to apply for these permits as this will be my first subdivision project and I want it all to be completed within 12 months if possible.

    The block already has an existing garage and bungalow which we would knock down but there is power and a fully functioning kitchenette, toilet and shower so I guess we would save a little bit on getting electricity, sewerage and water to the site as it is already in place?

    I have read on this forum something about bonds ranging from $10,000 to $35,000 depending on the council. What is that all about?

    Any information would be greatly appreciated.

    Emmyb

    Profile photo of DWolfeDWolfe
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    @dwolfe
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 1,253

    Hi,

    So for demo costs allow about $6k just in case. For all the subdivision costs = plans, council, working drawings, etc allow up to 30-40k if you get the architect to do all of it, Which i would go with if it is your first one. You might be able to squish it into 12 mths depending on the council but don't believe them when they say 3 mths for planning approval (ours still took 8 mths through Whitehorse when they said 3) A more realistic time frame  for completion is 18-24 mths just in case. Construction should take 6-9mths, 6 if its nice and easy.

    I have to say I don't know what the bonds are either.

     Give the council a ring and ask them if that particular block is ok for subdivision they can usually tell you if its ok. (this is not a guarantee of a yes to permits) You'll still need to pay for meters etc for gas and power (not up to that yet).

    Allow 200-250k constructions costs with a 50k contingency. Landscaping, blinds, things like that are often extras. Call some builders local to u and get prices, call architects and get prices even before you look at your land.

    Remember you can always get the plans through the flog off the block which may work better money wise if construction doesn't.

    Feel free to message me if you need anything

    Enjoy its a lot of fun

    D

    DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
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    mattnz
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    @mattnz
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 574

    Hi Dwolfe,

    How much profit was there in the subdivision you did?

    Thanks,
    Matt

    Profile photo of DWolfeDWolfe
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    @dwolfe
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    Yet to have valuation done but looking like 300k-350 hard to compare since there isnt much that is exactly the same in the area.

    $1.3ish Cost (at this stage)
    $1.6 (conservative valuation)

    Then will be enjoying hopefully quite a lot of depreciation on top of the equity.

    300-350? They should be finished in Jan. The builder is pulling out all the stops but I don't think well be done b4 xmas. Fencer is a moron! That's holding up driveways etc. Hopefully better valuation next yr anyway. Market went down temp while building but has picked back up due to scarcity (thank god!)

    D

    DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
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    mattnz
    Participant
    @mattnz
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 574

    Wow great result, :)

    How much cash did you need to have available to do it? Seems the old adage that you need money to make money is true.

    How much did your development cost per sqm?

    Profile photo of DWolfeDWolfe
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    @dwolfe
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    You need to be able to borrow money to make money!

    We had existing equity which we used as the deposit to obtain the original residential finance. The cash portions were for planning, architects costs and for 5% builders deposit.We also used cash for the mortgage repayments along the way.There will be cash spent on fences, blinds landscaping. The rest is all borrowed. If anyone has 1.3 Mill in cash I would like them to call me and then give me some!!!

    I haven't sat down and worked out sqm. We did a total project price. At the end I will go through all of of the dollars with a fine tooth comb and work out any changes I may make for next time (there are already a lot of things I would do differently). This is only the 1st of many, many projects.

    And yes there are probably a lot of things I did "wrong" or whatever but honestly I think it is better to do something and make a couple of small mistakes than to do nothing because your afraid of making a mistake.

    Enjoy

    D

    DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
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    mattnz
    Participant
    @mattnz
    Join Date: 2007
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    Yes you have managed to borrow most of the $1.3M. I am finding potential deals, but a lack of cash is holding me back.

    I currently have my funds tied up and in April will have about 50k available. Not enough to take on a deal like yours unfortunately.

    Profile photo of DWolfeDWolfe
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    @dwolfe
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    Yeah, I'm looking at doing a straight backyard split (maybe) next to get some cash in. Even a cheap property requires 70k worth of cash even before you get into the subdiv  which is really annoying. Good luck with finding something, it takes a while to find something that's right!

    D

    DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
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    Profile photo of emmybemmyb
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    @emmyb
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    Hi DWolfe,

    Thanks so much for your helpful info.. The costs were quite a bit higher than I thought they would be but I am still considering the property as it seems to tick a lot of boxes.

    I am a bit nervous as this is my first and I have only just started to look in Frankston (previously I was looking in Geelong but that is just as, if not more expensive than Frankston). But as you said, "it is better to do something and make a couple of small mistakes than to do nothing because your afraid of making a mistake."

    I have rung the council who tell me that there wouldn't be problem with subdivision.

    If I didn't want to go ahead with the construction, would I be able to sell the land without the permits, just as a block of land or is it much better to sell it with the plans – even if they do cost 30 – 40K.

    Cheers,
    Emmy

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
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    @jacm
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    Yep you can sell the land without the building permit.  You'd get a bit more for it if you had the permit, of course ;-)  You can get an idea of how much more by scanning land prices on http://www.domain.com.au

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
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    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of MazstarMazstar
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    @mazstar
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 4

    HI

    I am inexperienced also but called a landsurveyor and draftsmen yesterday to get a quote for a similar project in the area and they told me all up your looking at 25-30K for plans and permits.

    Profile photo of emmybemmyb
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    @emmyb
    Join Date: 2009
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    Ok that's a bit more like what I expected. Great to know. Thanks Mazstar

    Jac M, Do you think if the plans and permits cost anywhere from 25 – 40K that you would recoup that with the sale price of selling with plans permits? What if they wanted to bulid something a bit different? Are you narrowing your market by selling with plans?

    Profile photo of DWolfeDWolfe
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    @dwolfe
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    I think you are able to get more for the block with plans as it saves the purchaser anywhere from 6-12mths of mucking around and cash. Also if they are building it may well be for investment and one 3x2x2 townhouse is pretty much going to be the same as another apart from when you come to finish and fittings.

    The costs for our architect include inspecting the project at each stage of construction as well so this will up the price. You are always better to make your costings a little higher to allow for any unexpected costs, economic downturns (haha yeah right plan for that) etc. Better to have more money allowed than have your project grind to a halt because you didn't have that extra 5k or 50k for whatever.

    Enjoy it is a heap of fun from the beginning to the end keep us posted on your adventure.

    D

    DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
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    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
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    @jacm
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    DWolfe wrote:
    Hi,

    So for demo costs allow about $6k just in case. For all the subdivision costs = plans, council, working drawings, etc allow up to 30-40k if you get the architect to do all of it

    Hi DWolfe

    If he just wanted to subdivide (and put in the obligatory water connections to each property) but NOT submit an application to construct dwelling(s), is that all included in the $6k you suggested?  Or is water connections, power connections etc extra?

    jac

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
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    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of DWolfeDWolfe
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    @dwolfe
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    No please read the whole post again. The 6k is just for demolition of a small building. There was a shed to be removed? Everything is extra and I really mean that. If you wanted to try and get a planning and building permit on some plans you already had done then maybe closer to 10-15k but underestimating costs is the quickest way to end a project.

    I am not up to title subdivision (this is generally done when construction completed) yet on our project so i cannot give an accurate cost. Better to make 4 or 5 calls and get an average of each option.

    D

    DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
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    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
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    @jacm
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    Ah yes sorry matie.  I read demo as "demonstration" rather than "demolition" ;-)

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
    http://www.middletonbuyersadvocates.com.au
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    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of DWolfeDWolfe
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    @dwolfe
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    Yeah I realised after that it could be taken that way.

    D

    DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
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