All Topics / General Property / Need advise to buy an IP, what should I buy, Old or New?

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  • Profile photo of vsdabhivsdabhi
    Member
    @vsdabhi
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 19

    Hi,
    I am confused and need help to make decision. I have got an investment property. I want to buy another IP. I saw 2 new villas and one old property. If I buy old one for $400K and spend about $25K for renovation, I can rent it out for $400 per week. If I buy 2 new IPs for $750K, I can get $350 for each. Can you please do some maths+add your experience and advise me which option is better if We consider rent, tax benifit, depreciation etc. My income is above $120K, My wife's income is only $35K
    Thanks.

    Profile photo of ducksterduckster
    Participant
    @duckster
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 1,674

    When you look at building depreciation on the 2 new 750k IP's you need to look at what the construction cost was as this can be depreciated as a building write down over 40 years . at 2.5% per year. (you can't depreciate Land cost). Also note depreciation is subtracted from your cost base each year you claim it. This means in layman terms – increased captial gain in the future – increased capital gains tax.

    Here comes some of the maths
    New Building
    Building cost estimate say $200,000 as a guess – You need to know this amount to do this.
    2 x 200k = 400k building cost
    depreciation per year = 400k * 2.5% = 10,000 a year as depreciation expense.
    Loan of 750k based on 100% borrowing . interest of say 7.5% per year = $56,000 in interest p/a
    Rate and insurance guessimate of $2500 p/a
    Possible Strata charges guestimate $1000 p/a
    Total expenses = $59,500 out of your pocket and $10,000 depreciation = $69,500
    Total Income at 700 per week * 52 = $36,400 (may have real estate commission
    Nett Property Income/ Loss = $36400 – 69,500 = -33,100
    (please be aware that this is added back if dealing with Centrelink or Family office for payment calculation for income deeming)
    (23,100 out of your pocket after adding rent )
    Old property
    Building cost estimate Hard to know depends on age of building Quantity Surveyor can help with this.
    Fitting depreciation per year on renovation – Hard to know  Quantity Surveyor can help with this.
    Loan of 400k based on 100% borrowing . interest of say 7.5% per year = $30,000 in interest p/a
    Rate and insurance guessimate of $2500 p/a

    Total expenses = $32,500 out of your pocket and unknown depreciation on renovation = $32,500
    Total Income at 400 per week * 52 = $20,800 (may have real estate commission to pay)
    Nett Property Income/ Loss = $20,800 -$32,500 – = – $11,700 (Loss)
    ($11,700 out of your pocket after adding rental income)

    Tax Benefit
    Ownership Structure 120k p/a 100% ownership
    any income over 80,000 is taxed at 40% till $180,000
    New
    Loss of -33,100 so tax saved = 33100* .40 = $13240
    So you lose $23100 to get back $13240 each year
    Old
    Loss of $11,700 so tax saved = 11,700* .40 = $4680
    So you lose $11,700 to get back $4680 each year

    With the new option you are in a riskier situation
    You have more interest rate increase Risk
    You are affected more if rates rise and have to find more after tax money to fund cash flow shortfall.
    Lets assume a 1% interest rate increase.

    Building cost estimate say $200,000 as a guess – You need to know this amount to do this.
    2 x 200k = 400k building cost
    depreciation per year = 400k * 2.5% = 10,000 a year as depreciation expense.
    Loan of 750k based on 100% borrowing . interest of say 8.5% per year = $63,750 in interest p/a
    Rate and insurance guessimate of $2500 p/a
    Possible Strata charges guestimate $1000 p/a
    Total expenses = $67250 out of your pocket and $10,000 depreciation = $77250
    Total Income at 700 per week * 52 = $36,400 (may have real estate commission
    Nett Property Income/ Loss = $36400 – 77250 = -40,850
    (please be aware that this is added back if dealing with Centrelink or Family office for payment calculation for income deeming)
    # any loss over 40k will actually be lower tax deduction at 30% due to lower tax bracket !
    at 11.5% interest($53,350 out of your pocket after adding rent ) to claim back 40% of 63,350 = $ 23005 #
    at 10.5% interest($45,850 out of your pocket after adding rent ) to claim back 40% of 55,850 = $ 20775 #
    at 9.5% interest ($38,850 out of your pocket after adding rent ) to claim back 40% of 48,850 = $ 18505 #
    at 8.5% interest ($30,850 out of your pocket after adding rent ) to claim back 40% of 40,850 = $ 16225 #
    at 7.5% interest ($23,350 out of your pocket after adding rent ) to claim back 40% of 33,350 = $ 13340

    Old
    at 11.5% interest($28.700 out of your pocket after adding rent ) to claim back 40% of 28,700= $ 11480
    at 10.5% interest($24,700 out of your pocket after adding rent ) to claim back 40% of 24,700= $ 9880
    at 9.5% interest ($20,700 out of your pocket after adding rent ) to claim back 40% of 20,700 = $ 8280
    at 8.5% interest ($16,700 out of your pocket after adding rent ) to claim back 40% of 16,700 = $ 6680
    at 7.5% interest ($12,700 out of your pocket after adding rent ) to claim back 40% of 12,700 = $ 5080

    Yes you can lock in a fixed rate but only for a certain time period and when that is over you could find the interest rate is 2% higher in four years time.

    If you go down the line of joint ownership then half the loss and assign it to each taxable income.
    However only $999 of the halved loss will be claimable at 30% for lower income worker
    Any more loss will be at 15% for portion over $999 and below $28,000  of half of total loss amount

    I can't advise you as I do not know your ownership structure, goals, financial position and risk adverseness
    And I am not licensed to give financial advise.
     However I have pointed out the risk factor so you can decide the ownership structure (you need to talk to your accountant on what is the best ownership structure) and what risk you can tolerate.
    I have not factored in annual repair costs in the calculations.

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
    Participant
    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 3,856

    My 2 cents worth – don't invest only for the tax benefits. The deal must look good irrespective of your tax situation as this may change at a moment's notice.

    Profile photo of vsdabhivsdabhi
    Member
    @vsdabhi
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 19

    Thanks you very much Duckster for detailed answer with good examples. I bought 2 properties, one is totally renovated for $390K and another for $266500, needs some work. Both are old properties.
    Thanks SNM, I am not considering tax only. I consider growth potential area, value addition and land size (sub dividable)
    Thanks again.

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