hey everyone this is my first post so bear with me…
im an 18yr old university student and have recently sold my car and now have $18000 in the bank. i live rent free as it is one of my parents houses( my only payments is the phone bill each month and food) and can also borrow a bit of money off my parents as i am thinking of getting into the game after reading some investment books and buying an investment property. i live in WA which has come to a bit of a stand still apart from some mandurah areas (due to the highway upgrade and new railway being constructed) and am looking to invest mainly in bayside victoria or south east queensland… can anyone suggest any areas?? my main criteria is close to water, within 20km to the cbd, good infastructure such as cafes and shops and past capital growth/employment.
My main question is what is the type of price range i should be looking in and how much money would i need to borrow off of my parents and what would my payments be each fortnight/month. eg for a $200k property what would i need to borrow and for a $250k property what would i need to borrow etc
my strategy is to create and hopefully find cash-flow positive properties and i have found a few already in high capital growth areas but i am lacking the knowledge on the finance side of things and was wondering if anyone could help me out.
i have recently been informed of notice of default (NOD) where someone cant make there mortgage payments on a house and if u offer to make the payments, can normally get the house at a discount price as many are very desperate… how would i go about finding these properties??
The first thing you should do is write down some goals and formulate a plan around that.
Ask yourself:
Why do you want to invest?
What sort of returns are you wanting to achieve?
Are you investing for capital growth, cash flow or tax purposes?
(You can invest for a couple of those reasons and you will probably get the benefit of at least 2 of them in whatever strategy you use, but an investment plan works better, the more specific you are.)
Do you want access to the cash now, or are you able to allocate some towards a self managed super fund perhaps?
How much time do you want to dedicate towards the maintenance and associated tasks of creating this portfolio?
Do you have much time for learning?
I can be contacted via email if you want to chat sometime.
Tanya at wakidoo dot com (spelled it out to avoid the spam bots)
Hi there The first thing you should do is write down some goals and formulate a plan around that. Ask yourself: Why do you want to invest? What sort of returns are you wanting to achieve? Are you investing for capital growth, cash flow or tax purposes? (You can invest for a couple of those reasons and you will probably get the benefit of at least 2 of them in whatever strategy you use, but an investment plan works better, the more specific you are.) Do you want access to the cash now, or are you able to allocate some towards a self managed super fund perhaps? How much time do you want to dedicate towards the maintenance and associated tasks of creating this portfolio? Do you have much time for learning? I can be contacted via email if you want to chat sometime. Tanya at wakidoo dot com (spelled it out to avoid the spam bots) Thanks Tanya Black
Hey guys, im in a similiar position. (as close to you as psosible, except im in melb)
1) invest so i can be financially free before i am 30 years old. fiancially free means making roughly $1500 a month.
2) Any sort of NET cash flow positive earnings from my investment properties. capital growth will be nice oto.
3) i dont understand your question to this tanya. Allocating money to a self managed super fund isnt going to be possible for me since my employer only allows a select few, but other than that, i dont *need* the cash, except to invest.
4) I would like minimum maintenance with portfolio. I mean, i dont want a job in property management, i want it as an investment. I wouldn't mind spending a lot of extra time (20+ hours) creating this portfolio.
r_windows geezus do you want us to tell you how to wipe your bottom as well? You are asking what price range and how much you should borrow? lol ahhh well first of all YOU might need to think about
a) how much you can afford to repay-I assume you work? What is your weekly net pay? b) how much money your parent WILL give you (Im assuming for a deposit?) gee we cant ask them for you c) once you have calculated a+b you will be able to work on c by then exploring how much the banks will give you. Its not a matter of us saying "well buddy you should ask your parents for a $50k deposit and then go spend $500k on a nice period style terrace house in Sth Melbourne" lol
[ Hey guys, im in a similiar position. (as close to you as psosible, except im in melb)
1) invest so i can be financially free before i am 30 years old. fiancially free means making roughly $1500 a month.
2) Any sort of NET cash flow positive earnings from my investment properties. capital growth will be nice oto.
3) i dont understand your question to this tanya. Allocating money to a self managed super fund isnt going to be possible for me since my employer only allows a select few, but other than that, i dont *need* the cash, except to invest.
4) I would like minimum maintenance with portfolio. I mean, i dont want a job in property management, i want it as an investment. I wouldn't mind spending a lot of extra time (20+ hours) creating this portfolio.
5) Yes, heaps of time for learning.
lol why dont you ask for a magic goose that lays golden eggs while your are at it lol Yeah we all want exactly what you are asking for-you think there is a simple strategie that will magically give it all to you in a simple reply from a on line forum? Maybe Im sounding a little harsh but geez what kind of an answeer do you expect? Try the search function as this kind of stuff has been covered ad nauseum. Again a better question other than how do I become rich in ten years is to ask "o.k I have x amount of disposable income per week-what would be the most effect strategy for investing this money, I am considering a appartment/unit/house etc, what thing did you people look for when purchasing your first investment property, what traps have you fallen into, how have you planned your movements forwards over the nexxt 5 years" etc
Tayna Black Wrote: Why do you want to invest? Thinking about becoming a full time property investor… not to keen on the rat race Tayna Black Wrote: Are you investing for capital growth, cash flow or tax purposes? (You can invest for a couple of those reasons and you will probably get the benefit of at least 2 of them in whatever strategy you use, but an investment plan works better, the more specific you are.) Mainly capital growth and cashflow….. have been reading lately about putting the IP in a trust etc for the tax side of things and asset protection? Do u have any information about this?
Tayna Black Wrote: Do you want access to the cash now, or are you able to allocate some towards a self managed super fund perhaps? what is a self manage super fund and what are the benefits… something to do with reduced CGT?
Tayna Black Wrote: How much time do you want to dedicate towards the maintenance and associated tasks of creating this portfolio? as im thinking about investing interstate i would probably get a property manager but will have alot of time to go over and inspect properties etc
Tayna Black Wrote: Do you have much time for learning? all the time in the world…. currently reading steves second book and rich dad poor dad. could u recommend some good books?
In response to blogs money follows management…. after i find the property my parents will lend the money to me so the amount borrowed is not an issue just the repayments
In response to blogs money follows management…. after i find the property my parents will lend the money to me so the amount borrowed is not an issue just the repayments
Thats a pretty niave and backward way to go about things!!! Im guessing your parents must be quite wealthy because you dont seem to have any consideration as to how much they are justgoing to 'give' you? So o.k lets go along with your plan-we find you a nice $1million dollar property (remember amount borrowed is not an issue) who is going to meet the repayments? You parents I suppose?
What you NEED to do is work out what you can repay-from there you can then work out how much you can borrow, and hell if your parent are throwing around money borrow as much as you can from them-why give the banks anymore than you have to? Quite simple really….soooooo how much can you afford to repay each week?
Uh now we are getting somewhere-now for the next problem-the banks arnt guna give you shite with no history of savings-so did you save up the $18k for you car or did your parents buy that for you? Basically it would seem (at this point) that you probably need to consider going into a partnership with your folks on a property-you just arnt going to be able to do it on your own.
Hey mate sorry if I have come across a bit strong-been a long day!!! Congratulations on being so eager and having the sense and maturity to want to take this on at such a young age. You just need to take a deep breath and do lots of research and try not to bite of more than you can chew Sooo keep the questions coming!! On $400-$500 a week you should be able to service a $300k loan (it will be tight though)
ricer & r_windows – Firstly, cogratulations on taking the initiative to get started so young.
Some recommended reading material:
Excellent strategist for building a portfolio quickly: anything by Peter Spann
For positive cashflow: anything by Steve Mcnight
For best structures – there are a couple of books – There's one called "Trust Magic" I don't know the author's name. Another one called "bulletproof Asett Protection", and Renton's got a good one on Family Trusts. There's different benefits to different types of structures and it's best to get advice on this one.
If you want to speak with a good solicitor who is and expert in his field, I recommend Rob Balanda. Rob Balanda is a specialist in trust structures, and property. He's a trainer at the Real Estate Institute of Qld, a regular speaker in the Reno Kings seminars and contributes to the Australian Property Investor Magazine too. I was fortunate to have been trained by him when I was doing my real estate sales training.
I'll be happy to elaborate further to answer your questions, but have to put in my disclaimer: any information shared in this format, does not take into account the specifics of your financial situation and is for education purposes only. The information provided does not constitute financial advice and it is recommended you speak to a qualified financial planner or associated professional.
Ok, that said, lets continue.
Firstly, even though you're keen to get started, it's best to do at least some reading before jumping in. A good place to start is this month's Australian Property Investor Magazine. They've got a list of suburbs in there within 20 minutes of capital cities, under 300,000 and also a couple of articles for beginners.
You can google my name and to find me, just look for the link related to property (hint. My Husband's name is Sean).
For now I must away. I'll drop back in on Tuesday. Have a great long weekend.
Hey thanks for the recommended material… i have the may and june issue of API and also have the may issue of your property investment.
After some research i have narrowed my search down to south east of brisbane and bayside victoria… any objections??
i have noticed that the sea areas close to brisbane such as ransome, thornside, wynnum and manly are undervauled… anyone agree with this and have some local knowledge of the area? this is also alot of talk about mt gravatt, chermside, tweed heads and springfield lakes??
my parents are over in victoria at the moment and are going to look at properties for me this week… ive narrowed my search to the bayside area such as armadale, oakleigh, moorabbin, bentleigh, carnegie, cheltenham, mentone, st kilda, ormond, highett, caulfield and aspendale as i believe these will have the most capital growth and if the right properties selected a positive cashflow
im half way through rich dad poor dad and was intrigued when the author was explaining setting up a corporation for tax advantages and asset protection…. would anyone recommend doing this or setting up a SMSF, what are the strengths and weaknesses of both.
I am wanting to learn more about accounting and financial statements and also the law and the tax advantages/loopholes as advised in rich dad poor dad.
I am currently studying commerce (1st yr) at uni thinking of majoring in property and finance and was wondering what peoples thoughts about chosen professions would be… property manager, funds manager, stock broker, financial planner etc?? Im mainly interested in tax advantages/loopholes as i find this topic alot of fun. Put simply what job would u choose if u could start all over again… preferably something in the property market as i find this most interesting.
Also what books would u suggest reading? Here are a few which i have found people advised for so far:
Australia's Money Secrets of the Rich. John R. Burley
The one-minute millionaire Robert Allen and Mark Victor Hansen
Think and grow rich Napoleon hill and W Clement Stone
Making Money Made Simple by Noel Whittaker
The Millionaire Mind by Thomas Stanley
"Real Estate Mistakes" Neil Jenman
"Money Secrets of the Rich: Learn the seven steps to financial freedom" John R. Burley and Bruce Whiting
"How to become a Millionaire in your spare time"Michael Yardney
Real estate riches : how to become rich using your banker's money DeRoos, Dolf.
Wealth Guardian by Steve McKnight
From O to 260 Properties in 7 Years by Steve McKnight
inc. and grow rich
Richest man in babylon
what would be ur top picks for a starting investor and would u advise me to educate myself more before buying an IP or to get in asap before prices are to high??
Just a quick word of advice as a fellow student. Despite the fact that my girlfriend and i are both PhD students making pretty good money via tax free scholarships, and we had saved very hard for the last few years, the banks gave us a hard time just because we had the title of "student".
We got them to be more specific about their reluctance to lend to us. They said it was actually the insurance companies that were edgy about lending to students. So if you can avoid Lenders Mortgage Insurance (LMI) by being able to pay your stamp duty etc and offer a 20% deposit, i would recommend it. Then go find a good mortgage broker or two who will do the leg work for you and find out which banks are comfortable lending to students.
(Mind you, if you buy something positively geared with no money down and a bank will lend to you, go for it!! Just tell me where you found it )
im half way through rich dad poor dad and was intrigued when the author was explaining setting up a corporation for tax advantages and asset protection…. would anyone recommend doing this or setting up a SMSF, what are the strengths and weaknesses of both.<br
The advantages of a SMSF are many, however, there is a bucketload of paperwork and record keeping required and the legislation changes frequently. Tax is the main advantage of super, and govt co-contr. if you’re a low income earner.
At your age, setting up as a company or a trust would hold more advantage because you then have the advantage of being able to borrow funds to purchase the property and take advantage of leverage, and you have immediate access to the assets.
Being a Pty Ltd and acting as a director allows you some legal immunity and the advantage of company tax rates of 30%ish. By doing it under that structure, you pay yourself as an employee, and only the amount you chose to take in the hand gets taxed at your personal tax rate.
A trust has other advantages similar to a company, but adds another layer of legal protection and limited liability depending on the structure take – ie, discretionary trust, family trust, unit trust etc. Nick Renton’s got some good books on the topic or a chat with a good solicitor and accountant would point you in the right direction too.
r_windows wrote:
II am currently studying commerce (1st yr) at uni thinking of majoring in property and finance and was wondering what peoples thoughts about chosen professions would be… property manager, funds manager, stock broker, financial planner etc?? Im mainly interested in tax advantages/loopholes as i find this topic alot of fun. Put simply what job would u choose if u could start all over again… preferably something in the property market as i find this most interesting.<br
I’ve worked 10 years in the banking industry, I’ve got my Diiploma of Financial Planning and own my own real estate agency.
Real Estate is by far the most exciting and rewarding of all 3.
From the Diploma of Financial Planning, I learned that it’s really a salespersons licence. The course is designed to teach you to recommend reatil products to clients -(ie. managed funds, insurance etc) collect commissions, and shift your liability. Unfortunately, since the Financial Services Reform Act, came to be, you will be hard pressed to find a decent financial planner who will tell you honestly where the best returns are because they increase their liability to get sued if you don’t take the responsibility to use that advice wisely.
From my banking experience, I learned that everything is negotiable. I always recommend that when you are shopping for finance, don’t go through a broker. Get a copy of “Your Mortgage” magazine and make some calls directly to the loan providers. By dealing directly with the finance company, you can negotiate a better deal for yourself as far as getting fees waived, better products, honeymoon rates, fixed rates etc. It’s all negotiable, but with a broker, they only have access to certain products and offers, and will usually push you to the one that pays them the best commissions.
Before applying for finance, go and get a free copy of your credit report from baycorp. Every time you apply for finance, the institution asks for a copy of your credit report and it appears on your credit file regardless of if you get the finance. If you give them a copy upfront and shop around to several institutions, they don’t need to order a copy and it then doesn’t mess up your credit file.
r_windows wrote:
> Also what books would u suggest reading? Here are a few which i have found people advised for so farclass=”MsoNormal”>Think and grow rich Napoleon hill and W Clement Stone
"Real Estate Mistakes" Neil Jenman
Richest man in babylon what would be ur top picks for a starting investor and would u advise me to educate myself more before buying an IP or to get in asap before prices are to high??
Thankyou
Most of your picks are great.
Napoleon Hill is a MUST.
Richest Man is Babylon. Another MUST.
Neil Jenman – there’s a reason why he gives this book away for free
Also, as far as timing goes, its good to get educated first. Make a mudmap or plan of what you want to achieve, and then dive right in.
Career wise, perhaps property management would be a good start. You learn the property market, how to value a propertie’s rent potential, conflict management, excellent organisational and record keeping skills, and you’ll never be without a job.
Some other investment vehicles you may want to read up on are: CFD’s (Contracts for Difference), Options, Warrants & Futures.
CFD’s and Futures are both high risk, but as you’re young, it’s a good place to start learning how to manage risk.
I'll retype that because the editing was dodgey on the last:
r_windows wrote:
hi again…
im half way through rich dad poor dad and was intrigued when the author was explaining setting up a corporation for tax advantages and asset protection…. would anyone recommend doing this or setting up a SMSF, what are the strengths and weaknesses of both.
Tanya's response:
The advantages of a SMSF are many, however, there is a bucketload of paperwork and record keeping required and the legislation changes frequently. Tax is the main advantage of super, and govt co-contr. if you're a low income earner.
At your age, setting up as a company or a trust would hold more advantage because you then have the advantage of being able to borrow funds to purchase the property and take advantage of leverage, and you have immediate access to the assets.
Being a Pty Ltd and acting as a director allows you some legal immunity and the advantage of company tax rates of 30%ish. By doing it under that structure, you pay yourself as an employee, and only the amount you chose to take in the hand gets taxed at your personal tax rate.
A trust has other advantages similar to a company, but adds another layer of legal protection and limited liability depending on the structure take – ie, discretionary trust, family trust, unit trust etc. Nick Renton's got some good books on the topic or a chat with a good solicitor and accountant would point you in the right direction too.
r_windows wrote:
II am currently studying commerce (1st yr) at uni thinking of majoring in property and finance and was wondering what peoples thoughts about chosen professions would be… property manager, funds manager, stock broker, financial planner etc?? Im mainly interested in tax advantages/loopholes as i find this topic alot of fun. Put simply what job would u choose if u could start all over again… preferably something in the property market as i find this most interesting.
Tanya's Response:
I've worked 10 years in the banking industry, I've got my Diiploma of Financial Planning and own my own real estate agency.
Real Estate is by far the most exciting and rewarding of all 3.
From the Diploma of Financial Planning, I learned that it's really a salespersons licence.
The course is designed to teach you to recommend reatil products to clients -(ie. managed funds, insurance etc) collect commissions, and shift your liability.
Unfortunately, since the Financial Services Reform Act, came to be, you will be hard pressed to find a decent financial planner who will tell you honestly where the best returns are because they increase their liability to get sued if you don't take the responsibility to use that advice wisely.
From my banking experience, I learned that everything is negotiable. I always recommend that when you are shopping for finance, don't go through a broker. Get a copy of "Your Mortgage" magazine and make some calls directly to the loan providers.
By dealing directly with the finance company, you can negotiate a better deal for yourself as far as getting fees waived, better products, honeymoon rates, fixed rates etc. It's all negotiable, but with a broker, they only have access to certain products and offers, and will usually push you to the one that pays them the best commissions.
Before applying for finance, go and get a free copy of your credit report from baycorp. Every time you apply for finance, the institution asks for a copy of your credit report and it appears on your credit file regardless of if you get the finance. If you give them a copy upfront and shop around to several institutions, they don't need to order a copy and it then doesn't mess up your credit file.
r_windows wrote:
Also what books would u suggest reading? Here are a few which i have found people advised for so far: Think and grow rich Napoleon hill "Real Estate Mistakes" Neil Jenman Richest man in babylon
what would be ur top picks for a starting investor and would u advise me to educate myself more before buying an IP or to get in asap before prices are to high??
Tanya's Response:
Most of your picks are great.
Napoleon Hill is a MUST.
Richest Man is Babylon. Another MUST.
Neil Jenman – there's a reason why he gives this book away for free
Also, as far as timing goes, its good to get educated first. Make a mudmap or plan of what you want to achieve, and then dive right in.
Career wise, perhaps property management would be a good start. You learn the property market, how to value a property's rent potential, conflict management, excellent organisational and record keeping skills, and you'll never be without a job.
Some other investment vehicles you may want to read up on are: CFD's (Contracts for Difference), Options, Warrants & Futures.
CFD's and Futures are both high risk, but as you're young, it's a good place to start learning how to manage risk.
Just a quick word of advice as a fellow student. Despite the fact that my girlfriend and i are both PhD students making pretty good money via tax free scholarships, and we had saved very hard for the last few years, the banks gave us a hard time just because we had the title of "student".
We got them to be more specific about their reluctance to lend to us. They said it was actually the insurance companies that were edgy about lending to students. So if you can avoid Lenders Mortgage Insurance (LMI) by being able to pay your stamp duty etc and offer a 20% deposit, i would recommend it. Then go find a good mortgage broker or two who will do the leg work for you and find out which banks are comfortable lending to students.
(Mind you, if you buy something positively geared with no money down and a bank will lend to you, go for it!! Just tell me where you found it )
Good luck and be persistent!
Hi Wayne
You will usually find that in every suburb, there will be about 2 agents that usually undersell by about $30-$50,000 compared to other agents. Hint. They'll usually be the major franchise brand names. The reason is their focus on volume and turnaround, rather than better prices for their clients.
Get your name on their books and their databases because most of the time, the really good properties don't even get advertised on the internet. Most agents send the "coming soon listings" to their database first and in a hot market, these properties are usually under contract the same day they were listed. Call those agents regularly and get on top of their minds.
re: finance – don't bother with a mortage broker.
Do the legwork yourself.
Ask for a personal banker if you end up going with one of the big banks. (They work harder for you and build up a relationship for future purchases. )
Let them know you intend to do a lot of investing.
Have a plan to show them your strategy and let them know there's more business for them.
If either of your parents will go guarantor for you, that always helps aswell.
If you're looking for an owner occ property, look for some companies that offer vendor finance and some that will lend to anyone but with a high interest rate. Don't write them off. If you can get the loan with them, do it. Get your property refinanced in 6 months, (with the capital growth), and then refinance. The money you would have lost on the higher interest and refinancing will be more than made up with the capital growth if you buy right.
When you're getting your property revalued, call the banks you're wanting to deal with and ask who their panel of approved valuers are.
Get one of those valuers to do the valuation privately at your own expense, and submit the valuation to the lenders. That way the valuation is in your favour and not the banks and will have a higher value and the bank will approve it because it's one of their panel valuers.
Hey thanks for the recommended material… i have the may and june issue of API and also have the may issue of your property investment.
After some research i have narrowed my search down to south east of brisbane and bayside victoria… any objections??
i have noticed that the sea areas close to brisbane such as ransome, thornside, wynnum and manly are undervauled… anyone agree with this and have some local knowledge of the area? this is also alot of talk about mt gravatt, chermside, tweed heads and springfield lakes??
my parents are over in victoria at the moment and are going to look at properties for me this week… ive narrowed my search to the bayside area such as armadale, oakleigh, moorabbin, bentleigh, carnegie, cheltenham, mentone, st kilda, ormond, highett, caulfield and aspendale as i believe these will have the most capital growth and if the right properties selected a positive cashflow
thankyou
I don't know much about the vic. market, but SE Qld I know well.
Wynnum and Manly are undervalued for their position, but have been pretty stagnant for about 5 years and are showing no signs of budging at this stage.
If you're looking for a good sign of capital growth, Upper Coomera, Coombabah, Molendinar, Southport, Labrador & Helensvale would be my picks.
Coomera is on the cusp of a boom and has several new housing estates where brand new homes are very well priced.
More inner towards Bris, I've always thought Inala was undervalued, and it's now showing signs of an upcoming boom in prices and has been getting lost of press lately. Press = Investor hotspots.
Eagelby and Beenleigh had a lot of press over the last 8 months as a hotspot and they're both red hot markets at the moment. If you're still wanting to get in that market, Mt Warren Park is presently undervalued and Windaroo should be a bit higher too. Waterford is getting a bit heated now too.
Springfield Lakes has already had its heyday. It doesn't really have much more room for movement until the Ipswich Motorway is fixed. Almost anything on the Gold Coast Corridor is usually a good bet in my book.
Always look for surrounding infrastructure, upcoming roadworks, urban renewals, industrial booms, and good employment. Most of that info is usually found on local government websites and council sites.