Hello! I have a small dilemma.
My husband and I recently purchased a house as an investment property.
It’s quite old and in need of a superficial makeover. We decided, in the tight time frame we had, to modernise the ugly light fittings, rent it out asap then complete the reno in a couple of years.
We removed all the old light fittings (16 in total), purchased new ones, and started drilling holes for the downlights. (We are both electrical engineers – but not electricians and definetely not able to self-certify).
We had every intention of doing the whole replacement of light fittings ourselves, but then spoke to friends who said that if the job is not electrically certified, we’ll have insurance problems in the future if something goes pear shaped (eg tenant getting a buzz or the house burning down).
Ideally, we would still like to wire the entire job and then get an electrician to inspect the work for certification. It would save us a whole lot of time and money because here in Darwin, available sparky’s are practically non-existent and very expensive. We’d love to finish the job and rent it out this weekend. However, I seriously doubt an electrician would want to basically ‘take on our liability’.
I guess it comes down to analysing the risk and associated cost. What would be the probability of something going wrong?
What would you do in this situation?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts….
ring some electricians and explain the situation to them.
If you cant’ get the certification insurance won’t cover you in the event of a fault occuring.
Get a qualified electrician, I would not consider anything else.
(Hard work never killed anyone, buy hey why take a chance)
Hi, there ,
I read your thread and thought if you both are electrical engineers (i.e. degree qualified and chartered with the Engineers Australia in Australia), and if you are doing the electrical installation for your own home, then you don’t need to engage an electrician to do the installation and certification.
I am a chartered electrical engineer registered with the IEE (UK) and Engineers Australia (EA) and I have been doing my own electrical installation works for my home and IPs. You can double check with EA as as far as I understand, there is no specific requirements for a chartered electrical engineer to engage an electrician to do any electrical intslaltion in his/her own home.
Having siad that, if you are an electrical engiener specialising in other electrical field, then that is another matter. I would suggest you double check with EA for clarification.
Regards
RaymondIn Victoria you would be eligible to obtain an occupiers licence which allows you to do work on your own home.It still requires you to apply and satisfy the powers that be that you understand the wiring rules etc.
Tools
What does all this mean? I often do some of the small jobs myself, like changing switch plates etc. but major jobs are for the electrician. I recently had a house rewired by a qualified electrician but he did not hand out ‘certificates’, just invoices!
In Victoria, all electrical work to fixed wiring systems must be carried out by a licenced electrical worker, and a certificate of electrical safety must accompany that work.
As far as I know, there are no exceptions.legally you must at least be an electrical mechanic. bear in mind, if you do something wrong, and there is a fire or electric shock, you could face a prison term. this is serious stuff.
no electrical contractor will risk his licence on your work.
the amount you are talking about is maybe $65. why are we even having this conversation?
http://www.posigear.8k.com
Positive Geared Share InvestingI am an Electrician and If you dont know what you are doing dont do it. I have seen so many jobs that have had the ” Its not that hard, she’ll be right” that it frightens me to think what else is out there. One time the foil that insulates the bricks was live causing the showers to zap people. The certificate should be given. But if you know what your doing a sparky could just come out and inspect and test as we do this alot to.
Kind Regards
Brendan
Originally posted by crashy:legally you must at least be an electrical mechanic. bear in mind, if you do something wrong, and there is a fire or electric shock, you could face a prison term. this is serious stuff.
Now I am not sure of the legalities or cost associated with certification of electrical work but………………………………..
Assume something goes wrong and (perish the thought) a tenant is electrocuted, coronal enquiry held, owner didn’t have work ‘done properly’ and is held responsible for death (albeit accidental).
Family/ies then institute legal proceedings and a finding comes down against the owner. Owner’s stress levels through the roof and assets wiped out as insurer has little clause saying all work is to be carried out by qualified people.
For me the stress and risk is just not worth it.
And don’t think it won’t happen.
In WA a child tragically fell through a shower screen (incorrect and thin glass used) and died from loss of blood. Huge investigation carried out and owner, PM, tradesmen, previous owner etc all dragged into the case in an effort to find out who put the thin glass in. Unfortunately the culprit was never located but………………..
A key aspect of property investment is asset protection. For such a simple issue I would be using a professional so my assets are protected.
And so endeth the lecture.
Derek
[email protected]
http://www.pis.theinvestorsclub.com.au
0409 882 958Originally posted by choir:Hi, there ,
I read your thread and thought if you both are electrical engineers (i.e. degree qualified and chartered with the Engineers Australia in Australia), and if you are doing the electrical installation for your own home, then you don’t need to engage an electrician to do the installation and certification.
I am a chartered electrical engineer registered with the IEE (UK) and Engineers Australia (EA) and I have been doing my own electrical installation works for my home and IPs. You can double check with EA as as far as I understand, there is no specific requirements for a chartered electrical engineer to engage an electrician to do any electrical intslaltion in his/her own home.
Having siad that, if you are an electrical engiener specialising in other electrical field, then that is another matter. I would suggest you double check with EA for clarification.
Regards
RaymondThis is news to me. I haven’t looked over the CP process with a fine tooth comb, but I certainly haven’t seen any literature that states that being chartered overrides the requirements of having the appropriate trade competencies.
Furthermore, as I understood it, degree qualified engineers still had to complete the apprenticeship, or at the very least gain a restricted electrical licence in order to perform such work.
If this is the case for IEAust, as far as requirements go, then I’d suspect that they’d be promoting this far more than they are if it were true.
In short, despite the dire shortage of trade qualified electricians in Darwin, I don’t see that there is any other option than to get them to do the work.
my husband is an A grade electrician, but actually has an appliance repair business.
We get an electrician to do our new wiring safety switches etc and he gets it checked by the appropriate person in order to get a certificate(cost $100 extra).
My husband hasn’t the time to do the wiring and doesn’t do this sort of work regularly, so he leaves it to an expert.
I would not take any risks with wiring.units4me indicates these certificates are required in Victoria! I have had places in Vic but have never had a need for an electrical certificate. What are they?
Hi
Any modification or addition or alteration to an electrical circuit in the NT if it is more than a like for like replacement requires a certificate of compliance to be issued by a licenced Electrical Contractor.
Crown feel free to message me if u require more info
Cheers Kroc
Marsden,
In Vic, an electrician is required by law to furnish you with a certificate of electrical safety for all hard wired work he carries out for you,even if it is simply adding a new gpo.Tools
From the ESV website.
Tools
Certificates of Electrical Safety
Why We Should Use Certificates of Electrical Safety
Every time any electrical installation work is undertaken by a registered electrician, he/she must provide a certificate of electrical safety.Certificates of electrical safety are only available from qualified electrical workers who are registered or licensed with the OCEI. As such, a certificate is your assurance that the work has been done by an appropriately qualified person and that it has been carried out in accordance with the high standards demanded by the OCEI.
Click here to watch the OCEI’s latest television commercial on certificates of electrical safety.
For a listing of electrical contractors in your area, click here.
Types of Certificates of Electrical Safety
Prescribed
You will receive a prescribed certificate* for all major electrical wiring work in all types of premises. In a domestic situation, this covers all work done on wiring and equipment where you cannot switch off the electricity. This generally means work on wires up to the switchboard and may include the wiring from the street to the house/building and the electricity meter.All prescribed work must be inspected by an appropriately qualified inspector (this will be arranged by your electrical contractor).
Non-Prescribed
You will receive a non-prescribed certificate* for all minor electrical wiring work in all types of premises. In a domestic situation, this covers all work done on wiring where you can switch off the electricity at the switchboard. For example, installation or maintenance of safety switches, circuit breakers, power points, non-plug in electrical equipment or lighting points within the house.Non-prescribed work does not require inspection but the Office of the Chief Electrical Inspector may arrange one with your agreement for audit purposes.
Periodic
The periodic certificate* is available for multiple non-prescribed electrical wiring jobs undertaken and may be used at the one commercial or industrial premises over a three-month period.* If you are unsure about the type of certificate you should receive, your electrical contractor will be only too happy to provide advice
Who to Contact for Problems With Certificates of Electrical Safety
If your electrical contractor does not show you his/her licence or does not issue you with a certificate of electrical safety, contact ESV.Costs
The costs of the various types of certificates of electrical safety are as follows –
Prescribed $20.00
Non-prescribed $5.00
Periodic (ongoing) $500.00
ESV PolicyClick here to view the Policy regarding Electrical Contractors (RECs) charging administration costs.
Here is some info on an occupier’s licence.
Tools
Occupier’s Licence
Application for an Occupier’s Licence
Who Must Be Licensed
An Occupier’s Licence entitles the holder to carry out electrical installation work that is limited to premises which the licence holder occupies for residential purposes, provided the applicant is sufficiently qualified and competent to hold a licence. When issued, the licence will have the residential address to which the licence applies included on the licence.Who May Apply to be Licensed
You must be able to produce evidence that you are the occupant of the residential premises referred to in the licence application. In addition, you must be able to produce evidence that you have completed a course of study in electrical engineering at a tertiary level which included at least 80 hours experience in carrying out electrical installation work and has satisfactorily completed a Licensed Electrical Mechanics (LEM) Assessment conducted by a body approved by the ESV.
The holder of this type of licence is only permitted to carry out electrical installation work on the premises occupied by the licence holder, the address of which is endorsed on the licence.How to Apply to be Licensed
An application form should be lodged with the ESV, together with the following –
Documentary evidence of occupancy, wiring examination results (where applicable); and
Application fee.The Cost
The application fee is $200.00 for five years and must be paid at the time the application for a licence is submitted.Application Form
Click here for a copy of the application form.Renewal of Occupier’s Licence
Renewal Process
The ESV will forward a renewal notice to your last known address just prior to the expiry of the current licence. It is, however, your responsibility to ensure your licence is kept up to date at all times.The Cost
The renewal fee is $130 for five years.Responsibilities Under the Legislation and Regulations
As a licence holder, it is your responsibility to understand the legislation and regulations in place at any time and work in accordance with them. In this regard, you must work in accordance with the following –
Part 3 of the Electricity Safety Act 1998; and
Electricity Safety (Installations) Regulations 1999.
You must issue a certificate of electrical safety for all electrical installation work undertaken.Penalties for Non-Compliance
The Act provides for penalties ranging up to $5,000 for the following –
Unlicensed person carrying out electrical installation work;
Failure to give a certificate of electrical safety;
Any work found non-compliant and unsafe.
The Act also provides for a penalty of up to $25,000 for a body corporate for failure to be registered or insured.Click here for further information.
Review of ESV decisions
Previously, the Electrical Appeals Board was established under the Electricity Safety Act 1998 to hear appeals against certain decisions taken by the ESV. Following the transfer of its functions to the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT), people who are aggrieved by such a decision may now apply to VCAT for review of the decision.
Thanks everyone for your input! It was good advice we decided to take.
The whole job is done now. We ended up doing as much work as we thought we could – removing old fittings, drilling holes for lights…then called in an electrician to wire the new lights up. We also ended up installing a new switchboard and fitting RCDs (Residual Current Devices). The total cost for one day’s work was $2000 (including new switchboard and all wiring). I thought that was a bit exe, but they had the best quote. That’s Darwin for you.
In the end, the electrician said that we could have wired the lights up ourselves and he would have been happy to simply inspect and issue a certificate. Funny how when we asked each of them that question prior to doing the work they all refused….[eh] We’ll have to keep that in mind next time….
Thanks again for all your help.
Thanks Tools for all the info, greatly appreciated. I can honestly say that I have never heard of or had the need for an electrical certificate!
Our recent rewire on a 150 year old house cost $2000 which included new switchboard. So COFGOLD’S price may not have been so expensive. However, the electician had to take extra care and had to devise unusual fittings that may have taken extra time.
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