Folks,
There seems to be a generous smearing of religion wrapped up with many contributors to this site – probably attracted by Steve’s open acknowledgements in his books…evidenced by some of the quotes on their signature.
I was wondering what the religious people thought about the Catholic Church and their absolutely MASSIVE property portfolio around the world.
1. Do you think it sits well with the image they try to portray of poverty.
2. Is the Pope just the chairman with all the purply cardinals directors of the board ??
3. Do you agree that all their properties (many of which are in prime CBD locations on large landholdings due to the length of ownership) attract very little to no council rates ??My trouble debating religous things is that someone can find a passage in ‘the book’ supporting their argument, and yet another can find a passage in ‘the book’ that refutes the first 180°…so they both think they are right…and hence arguments prevail ??
Looks like it is too hot to handle!
It is a known fact that the Vatican City is the richest City in the world (just go there). With Catholisism being the largest single denomination spanning the whole world I’d like to know why this is so hard to believe?
As to them not paying the full Council Rates, I’d be guessing!
It is mainly a historical discussion..
I am not sure if the Church portrays itself as poverty stricken or poor.
I believe that the scriptures encourage us to forgo earthly treasures for heavenly treasures (that is to focus on Jesus and thru Him, God rather than allow ourselves to be ‘blinded’ by greed and material posessions). In other words learn the scripture and live by their principles and then go about your earthly life, be that investing or otherwise running a business.
Those examples where a rich person was told to give it all away was because he loved money (the reported root of all evil) more than anything else. He was encouraged to love his neighbour (others) as he loved himself. Apparently the message got lost…..Hope that helps some-what. I am just satarting out to learn the scriptures so I may not be 100% on the mark, but I hope it helps none-the-less.
Cheers
C@34Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is to always try something one more time.
– Thomas EdisonI believe Christianity isn’t about buildings, it’s about the love that’s in them. Unfortunately sometimes “man’s plans” get in the way of God’s plans. The most awesome church I’ve ever been in was held in a little shop front at Bargara. I personally have a problem with churches having buildings worth a bomb while people go hungry or homeless.
Jesus doesn’t ask us to take a vow of poverty when we come to Him. But we are told to be good stewards of what He does give us. If we prove ourselves to handle things well, we get more!
I love your question No.2! : )) but as I am not catholic I can’t answer it. It made me giggle ‘though!
I agree with your comment in your last paragraph. My thoughts are, “walk the talk”. “By their fruits you will know them”…If you believe, as I do, that God delights in you and gets pleasure from blessing you, then that’s what you’ll get. Some folk think God is a giant ogre with a stick whose main goal is to beat you over the head if it looks like you seem happy…well if so, you’ve got the wrong God. All I know is, My God blesses me every time I turn around and then some.
And sorry Dazzling, but I have NO idea about the council rates!!?? I know they’re tax-exempt…but not so sure about rates?
Redhaven.
“I alone know the plans I have for you, plans to bring you prosperity and not disaster, plans to bring about the future you hope for.” ~ GOD ~ (Jeremiah 29:11)
Those examples where a rich person was told to give it all away was because he loved money (the reported root of all evil) more than anything else. He was encouraged to love his neighbour (others) as he loved himself. Apparently the message got lost…..[blink]…yes. apparently it did!
The ‘prosperity gospel’ did not exist before television evangelism… but that is off topic.
In answer to the original questions:
1) No.
2) Huh?
3) I wouldn’t have a problem with christian churches being granted tax & rate relief if they were supplying a non-profit service for the public, the property they held could not be sold, and the same benefits were available to all religious organisations (yep, even muslim fundamentalists and satanists!).Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.[worried]
Cheers, F.[cowboy2]
Foundation,
w.r.t. to question 2) Huh ??
Well I was wondering who was running “the show” over there ?? The “show” being – the largest property portfolio in the world by far.
How do they do it ?? Do they have property managers in each country…imagine their bulk discount on PM fees…who all report to one supremeo in a purple gown. Then what does he (no she’s in this property group) do with the info ??
I imagine they all get dressed up in their purple silk PJ’s, pop on their pointy party hats and sit around a big slab of polished oak with the ‘top dog’ up the end of the table in his white silk PJ’s and mull over their 200 Billion USD + portfolio…
I dunno – how do you think they manage it all ?? I’d imagine there’d be a lesson or two for all of us in that lot.
Maybe they are the ultimate masters in the “buy and hold” technique ??
If you think about it the “portfolio” as you call it is a result of centuries of bringing the message to the masses. They were built as houses of God and their current worth is not the point.
When was the last time you saw a new Catholic church going up? I have seen plenty for sale in the last few years due to declining flock size.
I think McDonalds may give them a good run for their money when it comes to property portfolio values though.
Yep, Mc donalads are the biggest private property owners (by value) in the world.
I think one needs to differentiate between
1. jesus (god), and the church
2. The catholic church and other churches.Protestant churches (all the rest) were and still are in some ways a reaction to the excesses of the catholic church.
If i only had the key to the vaults in the vatican. Property ownership is only one of the myriad of interesting and infamous inconsistencies of this house of worship.
at the end of the day the church is run by fallible human beings. The church was the most powerful body in the world and you know what they say about power.
tonight on getaway there is something about the Davinci code – should be good for a laugh…
Perhaps – absolute power corrupts…absolutely?
Hi Dazzling
As a Christian i struggle with the wealth that some the churches have. St Peters in Rome was built by Leo the 10, 500 years ago from money made from the sale of indulgences (money given to the church for the forgiveness of sins). Thank GOD the church has moved on from those terrible times. Its a tough question as one part of me would love to see the church sell those “assett”so the money can be used to help people, but would i really like the Catholic church to sell St Peters so someone could turn it into a Casino !!!!
Interestingly God didn’t even want the Jewish people to Build a Temple, but they insisted – he wanted to be worshiped in their hearts. So i think there hides the answer.regards westan
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absolutely…..right anubis!!!!! its a fact that the catholic church is run like a business. the mafioso that run the church certainly have their fingers in all the pizzas….opps i mean pies.
If anyone has seen the doco on ‘Waco’ where the FBI entered the David Koresch compound after filling it with gas then used Bradley tanks to shoot fire into the compound to burn it down. The FBI’s logic was that ‘after’ killing children as a result was to ‘save’ the children from child molestation. The children who survived were interviewed and none of them said that they were molested. After viewing the doco I thought well, gee! If ‘child molestation’ really is your concern then how come we don’t see Bradley tanks knocking down ‘Catholic Churches?????’
PS. I’m sorry if anyone reading this is Catholic.
…..I’m not sorry if you’re offended. I’m just sorry that you’re Catholics! It’s gotta be one of the most ludicrous beliefs! I love watching the Pope bouncing around in his Pope mobile. Just seeing the Pope bouncing around in his all terrain Pope mobile. ‘BOY, THERE’S FAITH IN ACTION!’. Only the true spokes person for God would need 3 feet of bullet proof plexi glass, don’t you think?
Cheers,
Gatsby!Gatsby,
I did see Waco: The Rules of Engagement and it is amazing how again, the media is played and manipulated from very pertinent facts, which makes for a very different perspective.However, I cannot see the relationship with the Catholic Church. Yes they are culpbable of terrible acts of the pedophiles within their ranks and through the non-action of the Church hierarchy. However, the Catholic church does not carry to my knowledge or was being investigated for possession of illegal firearms and explosives. Or did their leader state he fathered many children with girls as young as 12/13.
Various Branch Davidians were also charged and convicted of voluntary manslaughter and weapons violations.
However serious the sins of those who hold office within the Catholic Church, they are no Branch Davidians.
(BTW, I am not Catholic, I am Greek Orthodox)
Plenty of kiddie fidlers in all religions Gatsby, and even amongst the non-religious. However the Micks are one of the few to put unreasonable expectations on their clergy such as no sex/marriage.
Mind you the Branch Davidians thought it okay for their self annointed prophet to have sex with every single woman/girl over the age of about 12 in his cult because “God said he should”.
I don’t care about how anointed you are, Child Molestation should be punishable by carstration (as a minimum).
Sorry for the strong statement, but God forbid some-one messes with my children, I think I’d become very unchristian and a lot nasty! I know vengance is His (God), but I’d be first in line to be the tool!
Cheers
C@34Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is to always try something one more time.
– Thomas Edisonit has always irked me the tax exemption for religious organisations. my beliefs don’t seem to matter, yet if i slap on a white robe and force my beliefs down peoples throats I may save some tax.
http://www.megainvestments.com.auExtensive list of ‘Off The Plan’ property available for sale in Perth.
John – 0419 198 856
Originally posted by Dazzling:Folks,
There seems to be a generous smearing of religion wrapped up with many contributors to this site – probably attracted by Steve’s open acknowledgements in his books…evidenced by some of the quotes on their signature.
I was wondering what the religious people thought about the Catholic Church and their absolutely MASSIVE property portfolio around the world.
1. Do you think it sits well with the image they try to portray of poverty.
2. Is the Pope just the chairman with all the purply cardinals directors of the board ??
3. Do you agree that all their properties (many of which are in prime CBD locations on large landholdings due to the length of ownership) attract very little to no council rates ??My trouble debating religous things is that someone can find a passage in ‘the book’ supporting their argument, and yet another can find a passage in ‘the book’ that refutes the first 180°…so they both think they are right…and hence arguments prevail ??
Religious organisations get all sorts of tax benefits, and they do not pay land tax on holdings. Where I live they occupy the top of every hill with a view of the city or the water. It seems a bit much. Although the church must be falling on hard times, as recently, I can think of four or five big developments in Brisbane, that have involved selling church land. Making subdivisons for housing/units or other.
No offense to anybody intended. I went to a catholic school, I am merely pointing out a few facts.
Originally posted by Dazzling:Foundation,
w.r.t. to question 2) Huh ??
Well I was wondering who was running “the show” over there ?? The “show” being – the largest property portfolio in the world by far.
How do they do it ?? Do they have property managers in each country…imagine their bulk discount on PM fees…who all report to one supremeo in a purple gown. Then what does he (no she’s in this property group) do with the info ??
I imagine they all get dressed up in their purple silk PJ’s, pop on their pointy party hats and sit around a big slab of polished oak with the ‘top dog’ up the end of the table in his white silk PJ’s and mull over their 200 Billion USD + portfolio…
I dunno – how do you think they manage it all ?? I’d imagine there’d be a lesson or two for all of us in that lot.
Maybe they are the ultimate masters in the “buy and hold” technique ??
ROFL!! “Buy and hold technique” A lot of property was bought below market value or donated and so on. Dont get me wrong there was some very smart and well educated people either working for or a part of the church. Knowledge was the key! Knowledge of what buy and where, and so forth, is what has helped to create this vast wealth.
The Pope certainly isnt the head honcho in my opinion, there is people in charge of his movements and so on, particularly in the last months where he has been more “weekend at bernies” than the manager of the biggest property portfolio in the world. Im not a close follower but it seems for a few years, hes been a bit behind tyhe eight ball.
Marc,
When I say ‘smearing’ of religion, I use it in the same context and with the same level of importance as smearing vegemite on my toast in the morning.
Vital to some, likeable to others, and completely distasteful to many, with yes, a repugnant smell to some who refuse to indulge.
Happy days !!
Cheers,
Dazzling
“No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”
Originally posted by 1Winner:Dazzling I think your post is in poor taste and is a poor atempt to gather support to ridicule people’s religion as you call it.
Obviously you failed considering the balanced responses you got.Hmmm. In light of you very own comments about catholocism, I thought it was a perfectly reasonable metaphor. Chill!
Anyway, clicked on your site and spotted this little doosie in FAQ’s:
“Is it like Amway, Herbalife or Neways?
No it is not like Amway, Herbalife, Neways…”
It appears that your website (which the links to, were contained in your posts which have been deleted)is promoting a network marketing business.
So it would appear that it is like Amway et al.
Are you comfortable with this apparent contradiction?
Cheers
“…on the side of the rebel Jesus” – Jackson Browne
Hello Pot….this is the Kettle…. You’re black
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