I just got a phone call from a friend who has asked if I want to attend a one night seminar run by ‘Landmark Education’ this Wednesday night in South Melbourne. I’m just wondering if ANYONE has heard of this (organisation?) and if so, what feedback can you give me.
Many thanks in advance,
Regards,
Gatsby!PS. I did a search on this site but nothing came up.
Cheers,
Gatsby!Dear Mr Gatsby,
I checked Landmark Education on google. Here’s some reading:
Here’s their own site:
http://www.landmark-education.com/
Here’s an aussie critique of them (article says they’re a cult):
thingy.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/mirrors/www.caic.org.au_80/zforum.html
60 Minutes is doing a story on them- check this out:
“Have you been to a Landmark forum? 60 Minutes would like to hear from anyone who has done a course with Landmark Education in Australia. Please e-mail us, phone 02 9438 3433 or fax 02 9436 0527.”
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/
It might be worthwhile waiting until the story comes out to see what it’s all about.
________________Gats, if you look up “landmark education cult” on google, you’ll come up with a heap of articles :o) I like this one:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/landmark/landmark72.html
(interesting that it says that the Scientologists tried to shut Landmark down because it’s a competitor- hehe- I didn’t know cults were so competitive- that’s not very caring of them![baaa] Here’s an excerpt from that article:
“One section of The Forum he attended, Plywaski says, was a “fear session” during which participants were asked to close their eyes and imagine that the person sitting next to them wanted to kill them. “Then it was all the people around them,” he says. “That brought on the first moans and cries. Then it was all the people in the room wanted to kill them. There were screams.
“By the end, everyone in the world wanted to kill us. I cheated and opened my eyes. There were people writhing on the floor, kicking and screaming…just like at the old tent revival meetings. And what is the purpose in either instance except to instill fear so that you can control them…’Only Jay-sus can save you’…’Only Landmark can give you heaven on earth.'”
“They want to replace your individual values, experiences, morals with their values, experiences and morals. Your way of looking at the world with their way of looking at the world. Your mind with their mind.”
____________________________-Gatsby, if you remember hearing of the names “The Forum” and “est”, these are the same people. Different names, same cult.
Also they use lots of psychological drama stuff- regression, gestalt.. all a bit dangerous in the hands of the novice.
Thousands of dollars for therapy, basically- and very expensive and dangerous therapy- probably by unqualified salespeople.
kay henry
Kay,
As per usual, THANK YOU for doing the hard yards that I fail to see in front of my own nose/effort. I haven’t had a chance to check your weblinks, only because I wanted to thank you in advance! Now back to the web links!
Many thanks,
Kind regards,
‘Gats’!No worries, you
I have to admit, I do that kind of looking up, partially for my own benefit too. One of my favourite things is cults. I am a cultaholic, if you will. So if I get an oportunity to do some reading about one, it meets my needs, too.kay henry
Hi Gatsby!
I have not been myself but I have a friend who has been and from what he tels me it is an interesting experience and one that I would rather not expose myself to. It is pretty full on and you have to relise that they are going to mess with your mind – apparently for your benefit. But like Kay said there are powerful tools around which really should only be used by skilled professionals.
When my friend went a young woman was taken to hospital because she basically flipped out – she may have had emotional or psychologoical issues already and this pushed her over the edge.
While I am sure a lot of people get a lot from the experience I would suggest your friend do a lot of research before parting with their money and jumping in. I thnk there are better options out there for personal growth.
Cheers,
Gregps feel free to PM if you like
Thanks Kay,
I checked their site and read how it ‘will have a life changing experience which will last for the rest of your life!’ Well, in 1989 I had a 12 gauge shotgun held at my belly in a bottle shop hold up. It felt life changing at the time, but even that wore off after a few days. I think I’ll pass on my friend’s offer to attend (ironically his name is Jim). Perhaps I should opt for the funny tasting cordial?
Cheers,
Gatsby!If people need therapy, then community health centres provide free counselling- and you’ll be with qualified people- and generally, they don’t use “tricks” on people. I think these seminar people who use psychology (mostly pop psychology) should be regulated. If ASIC regulates spruikers around giving financial advice, the Australian Psychological Association should be regulating spruikers to prevent them playing with psychology.
If a person has a pre-existing psychological condition, apparently they are not allowed do the Landmark course. but that says it all, i think: “already feeling unwell? Well, this course is gonna send you over the edge, so we won’t let you do it…” The kind of screening they do would send alarm bells to anyone.
The “fear session” that I described earlier… Gee, I’d pay 6k to imagine that i’m being killed by everyone in the world- hehe… i imagine that even if one did not have a pre-existing psychological condition before these events, they may have such a condition after.
kay henry
Hi Kay!
I am not a fan of the government regulating everything… We might just get regulated out of making some decisions that benefit us or out of making decisions altogether.
People should demand information and inform themselves before forking out thousands of dollars… That way if some dubious marketers came along and tried to sign you up without giving you any info on what you were paying for the market would sort them out.
I don’t want to live in a pseudo-communist state… I make my decisions and I will wear the consequences of them rather than cry to Ray Martin…
Some of the pop psychology is tremendously powerful and a blessing when used with good intent. I can speak from personal experience – but like you said used with anything less than positive intentions or by amateurs can lead to seriously bad results.
Did you see Robert Allen recently while he was touring… That was disgraceful.. Hypnotising an audience and then having them sign up for his seminar… Totally underhanded and ethically wrong – most of those sheeple (people) had no idea what he was doing to them… If it takes that sort of sales to sell it then I cringe at the value of the content is like.
Cheers,
GregGreg,
I hear what you’re saying about regulation/deregulation… thing is though, mechanics have to be qualified to fix our cars; and builders have to be qualified to build our houses. It’s that kind of regulation i am talking about. Sometimes people *will* fork out heaps of $$$ to find a way out of their problems. I’d be interested to know the kinds of things people are dealing with when they sign up for these 6k weekend away fiascos. I bet they’re as vulnerable as anything- or why would they go? This Landmark stuff is all about self-esteem. If it was a forum about budgeting or finances, then it wouldn’t be so [mad] but it’s all about taking a large amount of money from people, and telling them their life will be changed. I’m surprised if such an epiphany would work for most people.
Mostly, I think this stuff is about American marketing. “get rich now” “change your life” blah blah blah. One can make changes by reading some sensible investment books, rather than becoming poor by paying these dudes.
kay henry
I too was recently asked to a preview [confused2]
One of the themes to lure me was it will improve your communication abilities
I analysed the communication of the person asking me and she was really talking at me not with me
It was as though i wasn’t there, so focused on her own outcome (a sale)I thought of the old saying gee your full off yourself
I declined the offer
her face went[angry2]It may be good but I will look elsewhere for growth and communication skills[biggrin]
Cheers
“When you can walk on water…take the boat”
Phonix said:
“I declined the offer
her face went[angry2] “hehe, Phoenix
Why must cults be so unkind when we deny them money? I think so many of these grpoups play on our own insecurities/fears. They know some people have financial worries, relationship worries, employment worries, self-esteem issues… and we all have fears. Understanding people have worries is empathetic; exploiting those worries is toxic.There was a funny episode on Everyone Loves Raymond tonight when the older brother joined a cult- hehe. Very timely
kay henry
I think so many of these grpoups play on our own insecurities/fears.
That’s very true, Kay.
And if these insecurities/fears are not noticable, they may give you a “psychologic test” and analyse you till they find something *wrong* with you- anything. Something that they can cure, of course![baaa]Celivia
A good freind of mine has done quite a few courses witht them, and one of his mates helps run the show (no pay) I beleive Anthony Robbins does the same to soem extent.
Cult? Well yeah I guess if you are suseptable to that sort of thing, no worse than some preist getting you to empty your pockets for the new church or what ever.
Like most people looking for a buck they prey on the weak. my mate enjoyed it and stopped at the level he thought was needed for him, no pressure but I guess it must be a bit like a franchise or commision based performance and there must be some operators that are more selly selly than others.
My advice? Be good to your mum, be good to your dog and read a nice story book:-)
We are all made from Stars
We have done two of the Landmark courses and highly recommend them. If you want details of what we got out of the courses please e.mail me at [email protected] It is not a cult.
If I knew then what I know now……….you know how it goes
Act,
I’d have to say though… how many people who ARE actually in a cult, say it’s a cult? I would say one of the first things a cult leader would say to cult aspirants is “This is not a cult.” Not to say that your non-cult is a cult :o) But ya know what I mean :o)
kay henry
KayHenry I agree. If you knew me you would know that I am the last person who would become involved in anything slightly dodgy. Landmark do not suck you in and keep you forever. They provide an excellent course to help you discover what makes you tick and how to manage your future. Our marriage is now stronger than it has ever been and we are renewing our vows on our 23rd anniversary in September to signify a new beginning to the rest of our lives. We now work together for our future instead of thinking singularly.
If I knew then what I know now……….you know how it goes
I’m not into cults myself (which by having said that means am I?). I don’t know if anyone saw the doco on ‘Waco’ about Davis Koresh and his compound in Texas about 10 years ago that ended in tragedy. Well firstly, his real name was ‘Vernon’! Let him be Jesus for a couple of months! I mean, who’s going to follow a messiah named ‘Vernon’? Isn’t it weird though that people snap and think they’re Jesus? Why don’t people snap and think they’re Buddha? Especially in Australia and America where most people resemble Buddha instead of Jesus? I was o/s just after this broke out and their was a very strong Australian contingency in the Davidian compound and a lot of Americans were curious and were asking me why their was such a huge Aussie following because Koresh was so weird? So I thought about this! I said well, frustrated musician, armed to the teeth and wanting to have sex with anything that moved! Hhhmmmmmmmmm! “I don’t know how to tell you all this but,…he sounds like all of my friends from Australia!!!!! I don’t know if this is going to be an isolated incident!!! But if you watch the video, which wasn’t shown on any major public news access source, you’ll see Bradley tanks shooting fire into the compound compared to the news source showing tear gas to help the mothers and the children get out??? (‘correct me if I’m going off the story here!!). Yet I’ve seen with my own eye Bradley tanks shooting fire into the compound which basically means that everyone up from the FBI the ATF, Janet Reno and including Clinton are liars and murderers! The American government said ‘Well, we had to burn the compound down because child molestation was going on.’ Well if that’s true how come we don’t see Bradley tanks knocking down Catholic Churches?’ (That is if child molestation is really their concern!). I’m not into cults, but more to the point I’m not into the media. To me it’s like taking black paint to your eyeballs so that we can become a 3rd world consumer plantation. I’ve been described as Koresh before (except without the firearms an women!).
regards,
Gatsby!I once new a bloke who thought he was Jesus. [blink]
I said, “Cool, walk on water then” [cap]
He said “OK, I will. He tried. He sank. His face went [angry2] too.”
But my face went. [biggrin]
(Only joking, I never met anybody called jesus) [baaa]
I have to admit, I do that kind of looking up, partially for my own benefit too. One of my favourite things is cults. I am a cultaholic, if you will. So if I get an oportunity to do some reading about one, it meets my needs, too.
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