hi all
i haven’t come to the forum for ages. since last year in fact. but now i’m back coz i’m looking to buy again. its changed a lot since last year. i must say i really like it. its soo much faster. even with my 56k modem. happy about that [suave2]
i am part of the IT industry, and subscribe to the zdnet newsletter…where it mentioned this site http://www.johnhowardlies.com/ –
the media, the govt etc. all relie on the fact, that the public has a very short memory. they tell us one thing and know that in as little as 6 months, we will only vaguely remember what was said. i found this site interesting from that regard. but also because the federal govt. has ordered the site to be closed? what happened to freedom of expression?
i’m glad to be back.
[strum]It has links to the ALP.
ALP freely link to it in its electronic newsletter.
The company hosting it :-
– is run by a former ALP staffer and former ALP member
– company donates to ALP
Freedom of expression became so much harder in this world of litigation. Unbound freedom or true freedom ironically leads to more leanient jail terms for hardened criminals (this is just one of many examples).
Plus they could have breached a technicality in another area not relating to the issues they raise but rather got looked at more closely because of who they targetted. As an IT person you should know this is possible.
hi all
we should demand and expect honesty from ALL our politicians
regards westan
I live in New Zealand and for a fee find cash positive deals there, email me at [email protected] to join our database
honest politician…
Isn’t that an oxymoron?
Cheers
SonjaYes sonya
but WE are to blame we- let them get away with it. We don’t demand a level of behaviour from them, so they continue to lie and deceive. We get the politicians we deserve !
regards westan
I live in New Zealand and for a fee find cash positive deals there, email me at [email protected] to join our database
we let them get away with it, because we forget. and they know we forget. so they continue doing what they were going to do anyway. its a cycle.
and even if we remember what they had promised, yet deliver something else (ie. GST), we jump up and down for a while, then settle down because another issue has taken precedence. who feeds us the other issue? they do.
i’m not politically involved at all, but things like this tend to stick out a lot.
that john howard site gave me a big wake up call. politicians do ANYthing and then lie themselves out of it. and we just accept this because it has been repeated so often, we consider it the norm.
why should we accept some liar as our leader? i think that a law should be passed, where we can vote a Prime Minister out (during his leadership period), if he has been caught lying or has been deceitful to the people who voted him in.
i really feel trapped in this beaurocracy.[cigar]
Whoever you vote for, you end up with a politician.
Deceit is easy to say but hard to prove. There are all kinds of reasons & excuses used by leaders. Determining which are valid & which aren’t requires a huge expense…
ie: I had bad advice, the situation changed, the last guys in office passed some convoluted legislation that stops us from doing it, no-one could have predicted the outcomes & fallout, etc, etc, etc
I think the important thing is that we elect the least harmful government rather than the most truthful.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
I’ve got to agree with Aceyducey here. It is about harm minimisation. Sad but true.
Perhaps afghangirl, you saw a site directed at undermining the Liberal party. I’m sure that something along the same lines exists that is directed at pointing out all the damaging material available about the Labour party.
Let’s face it they both tell lies – for whatever reason they use to justify it. It just comes down to a question of who we will be better off with running the country.
Cheers
SonjaPS Wouldn’t it be nice if a political party had policies strong enough to carry them to victory in an election without having to resort to defamation of their opposition? Just a thought…
You will do better if you ignore all the politician…just don’w vote for any of them…whoever win the next election…who care…
Kind regards
Jet Dollars
[Retire Young, Retire Rich]
Share Investing Forum: http://www.aussiestockforums.comOriginally posted by JetDollars:You will do better if you ignore all the politician…just don’w vote for any of them
I never do [baaa].
GP
Chan,
The thing about a democracy is we’re entitled to vote. You came from a country where you weren’t able to vote. At least in Australia, we’re able to vote out one group of dictators- even if another lot of dictators take their place. It’s a pity people feel so disenfranchised about voting. It’s one of the best things about a democracy. Why do people complain about what’s happening in Australia if they don’t vote? If you don’t like the govt, then vote them out.
kay henry
Originally posted by kay henry:Chan,
The thing about a democracy is we’re entitled to vote. You came from a country where you weren’t able to vote. At least in Australia, we’re able to vote out one group of dictators- even if another lot of dictators take their place. It’s a pity people feel so disenfranchised about voting. It’s one of the best things about a democracy. Why do people complain about what’s happening in Australia if they don’t vote? If you don’t like the govt, then vote them out.
kay henry
What happen if you don’t like them all, who are you going to vote? May I suggest a blank vote….LOL…
Kind regards
Jet Dollars
[Retire Young, Retire Rich]
Share Investing Forum: http://www.aussiestockforums.comOriginally posted by JetDollars:You will do better if you ignore all the politician…just don’w vote for any of them…whoever win the next election…who care…
Kind regards
Jet Dollars
I agree completely with Kay…
No political system is perfect.. whether its a democracy, a republic, an aristocracy or a monarchy…
But once you remove yourself from the voting system, you give up all right to criticise the people voted in by those who had the diligence to step up to the plate and have their say.
Sizzling duck makes a good point – the “johnhowardlies” website is not just a site – its a propaganda tool of the ALP… you dont think if Labor were in Govt there would be a similar tool being utilised by the Coalition?
My perspective of the impending Federal Election is much the same as Aceys… weigh up what each candidate has to say on the issues YOU deem to be important, whether it be health, education, the environment, investment, whatever … then decide which of the two major parties you believe have the better chance of attaining those lofty goals you place upon them as a registered voter [biggrin]
It is by no means easy, and there is NO right answer… but, in my opinion, once you decide to stand on the sideline, you give up all right to criticise.
Best wishes,
Jay.
>>but, in my opinion, once you decide to stand on the sideline, you give up all right to criticise<<
Hah!!! I would like to see anyone try to take this right from me, whether I choose to vote or not!![rambo2]
Originally posted by wayneL:>>but, in my opinion, once you decide to stand on the sideline, you give up all right to criticise<<
Hah!!! I would like to see anyone try to take this right from me, whether I choose to vote or not!![rambo2]
Wayne,
Enough people think as you do, it allows the radical groups to get into power…..then they go about limiting freedom of expression, etc – and sooner or later you’ll find that your right to criticise becomes a gaolable offence.
I find that prevention is better than cure….
Cheers,
Aceyducey
Originally posted by Aceyducey:Originally posted by wayneL:>>but, in my opinion, once you decide to stand on the sideline, you give up all right to criticise<<
Hah!!! I would like to see anyone try to take this right from me, whether I choose to vote or not!![rambo2]
Wayne,
Enough people think as you do, it allows the radical groups to get into power…..then they go about limiting freedom of expression, etc – and sooner or later you’ll find that your right to criticise becomes a gaolable offence.
I find that prevention is better than cure….
Cheers,
Aceyducey
But one must remember, Acey, that the in other great democracies, voting is optional (USA, UK, most of Europe etc.) so experience has shown this not to be necessarily true.
The right to critisize is the right of free speech.
Mandantory voting smacks more of totalitarianism than a free society, forcing a person to mandate a set of policies that one fundamentally disagrees with.
The USa is a great democracy?
I suppose it is if you’re a Judge & so get to decide who will be President
Europe has a long history of totalitarianism as well as democracy…..Hitler was voted into power through democratic means.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
Originally posted by Aceyducey:The USa is a great democracy?
I suppose it is if you’re a Judge & so get to decide who will be President
Europe has a long history of totalitarianism as well as democracy…..Hitler was voted into power through democratic means.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
Re USA: That particular debate is a can of worms so not going there. For the record, I too have serious misgivings about the state of democracy in the US. However, it cannot be argued on any level, that is is not still a great democracy.
The UK is one of the oldest, if not the oldest surviving democracy in the world…voting is not compulsory.
I’m sure in the USSR, voting was compulsory. Doesn’t matter if not. The point being that a one party state with compulsory voting is no real democracy.
My point: There is no correlation between compulsory/non compulsory voting and the preservation of personal freedoms… except that in my opinion, forcing me to vote is an impingement of my personal freedom when I do not wish to endorse any of the current ideologies.
The UK is one of the oldest, if not the oldest surviving democracy in the world…voting is not compulsory.Population difference probably helps, Australia is amazingly underpopulated compared to the other major democracies.
[/quote] My point: There is no correlation between compulsory/non compulsory voting and the preservation of personal freedoms… except that in my opinion, forcing me to vote is an impingement of my personal freedom when I do not wish to endorse any of the current ideologies.[/quote]
I think my freedom was impinged just reading that![baaa] What compulsory voting does is force people to take an interest on how the country is governed. If a person has no interest and chooses NOT to have a say then they don’t DESERVE one. A person can always ‘informal’ vote (which is making the vote void) until such a time they think a candidate or party are deserving of a vote at that point…
>>I think my freedom was impinged just reading that!<<
Why do you use an insult if my opinion differs from yours? Why not just state your opinion as you did underneath that comment and let us consider the merits of each others opinion?
>>…force people to take an interest<<
Interesting concept! Or what? throw them in the slammer? Oops thats what could happen in Australia.
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