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  • Profile photo of JLtarraJLtarra
    Participant
    @jltarra
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 90

    Hi all,
    i’m new to the game.
    having read a few books (including 0-130 in 3.5 years) in the past few weeks i’m ready to make a start.
    i like the idea of wrapping, could anyone recomend an accountant and solicitor in melb.

    is it just me or is it hard to find +geared properties out there
    the forum is a great source of imformation!
    John[biggrin]

    Profile photo of JuliaJulia
    Member
    @julia
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 217

    JLtara,
    I am an accountant in Queensland so not a lot of help to you but the following article will give you the low down on the tax consiquences of wraps:
    If the Vendor Finance arrangement has the following features the income stream received, once the wrap arrangement has begun, is considered to be principle and interest by the ATO. The income stream received before the wrap arrangement is entered into is considered rent. Reference ID2003/968.
    Typical Features of a Wrap (Vendor Finance Arrangement)
    1) The purchaser pays a deposit at the time of entering into the arrangement.
    2) The settlement (change of the title deed to the purchaser) does not take place for several years after the arrangement is entered into.
    3) The purchaser has the right to occupy the property prior to settlement
    4) The purchaser pays a weekly amount (regardless of the name it is given in the arrangement) for the right to occupy the property
    5) As part of the arrangement the purchaser pays the rates, taxes and insurances on the property.
    6) The balance of the purchase price to be paid on settlement of the arrangement is reduced by the weekly instalments.
    7) If the purchaser fails to complete the arrangement the deposit and weekly instalments are forfeited.

    Now what about the profit on the sale of the property? Is that normal income or capital gain and when is it taxable? Assuming an agreement similar to that described above the answer to this question revolves around whether the vendor is in the business of selling houses or an investor just realising an investment. The key issues in differentiating here, according to ID2004/25, 26 & 27 are:
    1) The Vendor did not use the property for any other purpose than to enter into the wrap. A straight rental of a property before entering into a wrap arrangement would avoid this point.
    2) The property was sold at a profit
    3) The wrap arrangement was entered into within 6 months of the vendor purchasing the property.
    4) The Vendor is in the business of purchasing properties to resell. It would be difficult for the ATO to argue this case if the Vendor only bought and sold one property.

    If you are caught by all of the above then CGT cannot apply to the sale of the property as the profit on the sale is revenue in nature. If a transaction is caught as income, CGT does not apply or in other words CGT is the last option if income tax doesn’t catch it. But even if you weren’t caught by the above and CGT applied there would be no discount if the property was held for under 12 months. If you did hold the property for less than 12 months before entering into the wrap it is better to argue that you are in business and caught by the above because the profit on sale would be revenue in nature and as a result not assessable until settlement which could be 25 years away (ID2004/27). If you hold the property for less than 12 months but it is subject to CGT you don’t qualify for the discount but would be assessable on the profit when entering into the wrap.
    Section 104-15(1) of ITAA 1997 states that a CGT event happens when the owner of a property enters into an arrangement with another party to allow them to live in the property and title may transfer at the end of the arrangement. Section 104-10(3) states that the time the CGT event happens is the time of entering into a contract for the disposal of the asset, not when settlement (title passes) takes place.
    For example this means that the vendor who enters into a wrap on a property that has been previously used as a rental and held for more than 6 months will be subject to CGT on the property in the financial year the wrap agreement is entered into. Accordingly, if at this stage the property has not been held for 12 months no CGT discount will be available even if they eventually end up holding the property for 25 years under the arrangement.

    [email protected]

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    Originally posted by Julia:

    JLtara,
    Section 104-15(1) of ITAA 1997 states that a CGT event happens when the owner of a property enters into an arrangement with another party to allow them to live in the property and title may transfer at the end of the arrangement.

    Hello Julia.

    Thanks again for an insightful post. Do you think the above could be applied to a lease option arrangement?

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of lozza123lozza123
    Member
    @lozza123
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 81

    Hi John,

    If you’re a newbie, you’d probably appreciate a nice, simple response to your queries!! So here goes:–

    There are two solicitors that everyone seems to recommend in Melbourne. They are Lewis O’Brien and Frank Libman, both located in Balwyn. I haven’t used Frank, so can’t tell you how good he is, but Lewis has been excellent so far.

    Accountants — try to find one who specialises in property investing, otherwise you’ll be wasting your time!! I have met Dale Gatherum-Goss (he has a website you could check out), and he is excellent on trusts. He also has a few books which are written in pretty simple format which make a lot of sense.

    And yes –> it IS hard to find +geared properties around here!! I’d say you won’t really find much around this area, unless (for example) it’s special holiday accommodation or say, student accommodation which is fully furnished, or something like that. That’s why wraps appeal to a lot of people… the positive cashflow!!!

    Good luck for the future

    Lozza
    [biggrin]

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